A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

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metaphoricalsimile
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A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby metaphoricalsimile » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:45 pm

I have read that due to the design of the ball bearing lock the Manix 2 needs a finger choil. In its current design, the front the finger choil rests against a bump on the inside of the lock mechanism to act as a closing blade stop. If a stop pin underneath the lock slider were used as a stop against a sharpening choil instead this would provide some benefits:

1. Longer cutting blade length
2. Provide a sharpening choil for people who like them
3. Do more to differentiate the Manix 2 from the PM2. Right now I think due to the Manix 2 having a lot more bulk in the pocket a lot of people compare the knives side by side and the PM2 comes out ahead. If the Manix 2 had a longer cutting edge it would be a more attractive option to make up for the extra bulk.

I kind of think that a knife with such a generous handle doesn't really need a finger choil anyways, and I would rather have more cutting edge.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby TomAiello » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:17 pm

I actually love the finger choil. It's one of the features I look for in my knives, and the reason that I really don't EDC the Endura or Delica, but frequently carry the Manix (my most common EDC), Native, and Dragonfly.

I think the different locks and blade shapes differentiate the Manix and PM2 quite a lot.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Abyss_Fish » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 pm

I hate to mirror this forum’s “military brigade” but, I think the knife is good as is.

The manix for me is purely a working blade, and material tends to get stuck in unsharpened choils. Now, a DIFFERENT bbl knife with this design? Absolutely. But the manix fits its role perfectly.
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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby vivi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:56 pm

I'd be down for a Manix XL with no index choil.

I have never witnessed a benefit to a sharpening choil but have noticed numerous drawbacks, so those are always a hard pass for me.
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Pacific Salt 2 SE | Siren | Police 4 LW | Police 4 K390 | C95 Manix foliage green | Manix XL M4 DLC | Street Beat LW | Aqua Salt

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:15 pm

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:45 pm
I have read that due to the design of the ball bearing lock the Manix 2 needs a finger choil. In its current design, the front the finger choil rests against a bump on the inside of the lock mechanism to act as a closing blade stop.
.....

The main reason why the Manix as a CBBL folder has to have a choil technically is not that the front of it "acts like a closing blade stop".
As far as I can see it there´d be just not enough space in the front part of the handle for CBBL AND a blade without a cutout (so a choil-less blade would hit/interfere with the lock and the knife could not be fully closed).
I think just a sharpening choil would not offer enough "cutout" at all for this design.

That said: A bit more cutting edge is what I am personally missing in the Manix too. But I´d try to achieve that designwise by lengthen the blade (there is space in the handle for a bit longer blade when the knife is closed). This would give the Manix at least a PM2 length cutting egde.

As for sharpening choils: I am with Vivi here. Don´t like those at all and can´t see their benefit tbh - Yes, a sharpening choil allows one to more easily sharpen the whole length of the edge - but the short section of the edge In could perhaps not shapren well without a sharpening choil is taken away by exactly this choil anyway!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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nerdlock
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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby nerdlock » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:27 pm

In agreement with Abyss_Fish and Wartstein...love it for what it is already, just needs a tiny bit more tip length to lengthen the edge even for a small amount.

A little bit of trimming the handle width, and a smoother CBBL that would allow one-finger operation would be nice.

But if they oh so slightly moved the Spydiehole a few mms inward, so that the blade width could be slightly reduced (thus reducing the overall closed width) - now that would make the Manix a much, much better knife than the PM2 (and I own several PM2s and Para3s in different steels).

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:57 pm

nerdlock wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:27 pm
In agreement with Abyss_Fish and Wartstein...love it for what it is already, just needs a tiny bit more tip length to lengthen the edge even for a small amount.

A little bit of trimming the handle width, and a smoother CBBL that would allow one-finger operation would be nice.

But if they oh so slightly moved the Spydiehole a few mms inward, so that the blade width could be slightly reduced (thus reducing the overall closed width) - now that would make the Manix a much, much better knife than the PM2 (and I own several PM2s and Para3s in different steels).

On all Manixes I had/have/handled (5 I think so far) one finger operation of the CBBL is/ was no problem - actually that´s what I normally do cause it is the quickest way to close the knife and requires almost no repositioning of the hand: 1.) Move just the thumb on a "lock tab" 2.) Pull the tab back 3. Let the choil drop on the index finger 4. Fully close the knife like people do with a backlock

Maybe you got a Manix with an unusually stiff lock?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby vivi » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:57 pm
nerdlock wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:27 pm
In agreement with Abyss_Fish and Wartstein...love it for what it is already, just needs a tiny bit more tip length to lengthen the edge even for a small amount.

A little bit of trimming the handle width, and a smoother CBBL that would allow one-finger operation would be nice.

But if they oh so slightly moved the Spydiehole a few mms inward, so that the blade width could be slightly reduced (thus reducing the overall closed width) - now that would make the Manix a much, much better knife than the PM2 (and I own several PM2s and Para3s in different steels).

On all Manixes I had/have/handled (5 I think so far) one finger operation of the CBBL is/ was no problem - actually that´s what I normally do cause it is the quickest way to close the knife and requires almost no repositioning of the hand: 1.) Move just the thumb on a "lock tab" 2.) Pull the tab back 3. Let the choil drop on the index finger 4. Fully close the knife like people do with a backlock

Maybe you got a Manix with an unusually stiff lock?
Here is a brand new Manix XL I've yet to really carry and use. First time trying to unlock it with one finger:

https://streamable.com/fasw66

I've been buying caged ball locks since, IIRC, they debuted on the pikal folder around ~2007. I've yet to encounter one that for me, required a different unlocking method. I've always been a little confused why it doesn't work for others. Maybe its more difficult with smaller hands? My grip strength isn't anything special so I never figured it was that.
Carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 SE | Siren | Police 4 LW | Police 4 K390 | C95 Manix foliage green | Manix XL M4 DLC | Street Beat LW | Aqua Salt

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nerdlock
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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby nerdlock » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 am

I just got a sampling on Manixes, my beater S30v whose lock has been broken in quite some time ago, and my newer 20cv acquired a few months ago. As you can see on the video link, no matter how hard I try to unlock both knives with one finger (thumb and index), the best thing I can do is slightly unlock it. But with two fingers operating it's buttery easy and smooth.

https://streamable.com/yt8mbc

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby aicolainen » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:22 am

I have no experience with the Manix, but it has its loyal following, so probably wise to not change it too much.

Personally I'm not a fan of finger choils on larger blades that has enough grip area anyways. And me having narrow hands, that means anything larger than the Chaparral. I realize there is a wide array of hand sizes and preferences among spyderco users, but for me the large finger choils on large folders like the Manix, or larger, just rubs my OCD the wrong way and I have a hard time justifying them even though I might like other aspects of the knife. I would love to see versions of popular designs like the Manix or PM2 with no choil or just moved back to take up less of the usable blade length. Might be hard to implement, I haven't really looked into what engineering obstacles that might come into play.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:56 am

nerdlock wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 am
I just got a sampling on Manixes, my beater S30v whose lock has been broken in quite some time ago, and my newer 20cv acquired a few months ago. As you can see on the video link, no matter how hard I try to unlock both knives with one finger (thumb and index), the best thing I can do is slightly unlock it. But with two fingers operating it's buttery easy and smooth.

https://streamable.com/yt8mbc

Weird ! As said, in the I think 5 Manixes I've tried so far: One finger operation no problem...

I use at least 5 different methods for closing my Manix, 3 of these methods are "one fingered".
(And I rarely use one of the two finger methods).

EDIT: As soon as I find time for it, I'll do a deficated thread showing at least my five main Manix closing methods per video...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Burton Knut » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:03 am

I typically carry a PE Manix everyday at work. Because of the security it’s grip offers I tolerate the choil, but it’s deletion is the one thing I could see improving the knife for me. I never use the choil as I like keeping my finger behind the larger guard, but I’ll try to make a point of using it in my lighter cutting tasks to give it an honest try. I’m sure I’ll have less snagging when cutting plastic film wraps off hose coils so we’ll see, it’s just hard to get over the mental hump of moving my finger closer to the blade in the moment.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby joedog8686 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:07 am

In my opinion, I absolutely despise sharpening choils. They get caught up on everything! It's one of the reasons I prefer Spidy over other brands like Benchmade because they do not use a lot of sharpening choils. For me, using the finger choil is the most comfortable way to hold the manix 2.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Ez556 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:19 am

As others have said, I think a new CBBL model would be a more likely outcome than altering the Manix to not have a finger choil. If you eliminate the finger choil, you will also have to massage design of the handle a bit as the front of the handle has half a finger groove that joins with the choil in the blade, and if you eliminated the half in the blade, the half in the handle would serve no purpose other than preventing you from getting as close to the blade as you otherwise could. And once you change the blade design, and then you change the handle design, do you really have a Manix anymore? Not really...
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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:26 am

Ez556 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:19 am
As others have said, I think a new CBBL model would be a more likely outcome than altering the Manix to not have a finger choil. If you eliminate the finger choil, you will also have to massage design of the handle a bit as the front of the handle has half a finger groove that joins with the choil in the blade, and if you eliminated the half in the blade, the half in the handle would serve no purpose other than preventing you from getting as close to the blade as you otherwise could. And once you change the blade design, and then you change the handle design, do you really have a Manix anymore? Not really...

Right, and as said: You could not eliminate the choil in this knife anyway, unless you'd somehow redesign the whole CBBL. As it is its dimensions and placemenr in the handle require some choil/ cutout in the blade.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Buddafucco » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:12 am

vivi wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:57 pm
nerdlock wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:27 pm
In agreement with Abyss_Fish and Wartstein...love it for what it is already, just needs a tiny bit more tip length to lengthen the edge even for a small amount.

A little bit of trimming the handle width, and a smoother CBBL that would allow one-finger operation would be nice.

But if they oh so slightly moved the Spydiehole a few mms inward, so that the blade width could be slightly reduced (thus reducing the overall closed width) - now that would make the Manix a much, much better knife than the PM2 (and I own several PM2s and Para3s in different steels).

On all Manixes I had/have/handled (5 I think so far) one finger operation of the CBBL is/ was no problem - actually that´s what I normally do cause it is the quickest way to close the knife and requires almost no repositioning of the hand: 1.) Move just the thumb on a "lock tab" 2.) Pull the tab back 3. Let the choil drop on the index finger 4. Fully close the knife like people do with a backlock

Maybe you got a Manix with an unusually stiff lock?
Here is a brand new Manix XL I've yet to really carry and use. First time trying to unlock it with one finger:

https://streamable.com/fasw66

I've been buying caged ball locks since, IIRC, they debuted on the pikal folder around ~2007. I've yet to encounter one that for me, required a different unlocking method. I've always been a little confused why it doesn't work for others. Maybe its more difficult with smaller hands? My grip strength isn't anything special so I never figured it was that.
I bought an M4 Manix XL for a buddy. Out of the box the lock was significantly easier to operate than the Rex45 Manix 2 that i had for months already. I wouldn't have bought another cbl prior to experiencing this, but i obviously got a stiff one, so now i would consider another.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby prndltech » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:33 am

The current one would be perfect if it was offered with a full spyder edge. I’m sort of indifferent on Finger choils, if the knife has one I’d like it to be like the military where there’s no point between the 2, unlike the manix and pm2.
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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby metaphoricalsimile » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:26 am

Right, and as said: You could not eliminate the choil in this knife anyway, unless you'd somehow redesign the whole CBBL. As it is its dimensions and placemenr in the handle require some choil/ cutout in the blade.
I can see a place in the handle where a stop pin could do the job with a longer edge length blade.

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:39 pm

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:26 am

Right, and as said: You could not eliminate the choil in this knife anyway, unless you'd somehow redesign the whole CBBL. As it is its dimensions and placemenr in the handle require some choil/ cutout in the blade.
I can see a place in the handle where a stop pin could do the job with a longer edge length blade.

Again, as far as I understand: It is not about stopping the blade! It is just that the CBBL requires so much space in the Manix handle that a blade without choil just would not fit in there fully too. Just the cutout (= choil) makes this possible,
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: A Manix 2 with a sharpening choil instead of a finger choil would be perfect, IMO

Postby Wartstein » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:44 pm

prndltech wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:33 am
The current one would be perfect if it was offered with a full spyder edge. I’m sort of indifferent on Finger choils, if the knife has one I’d like it to be like the military where there’s no point between the 2, unlike the manix and pm2.

At least the LW in BD1N should really get a full SE version...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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