S35vn on the Tenacious...what does it mean?

[D-Wade]

There is no doubt in my mind that I will pickup the Tenacious in S35VN, maybe 2. I really hope Spyderco will release these with a black blade too. I didn’t try the Tenacious until I already had a large collection of knives including Delicas, Sage models, Para 3s, Benchmade 940s, a large and small Sebenza 21 in micarta and I have to admit that I prefer to carry the Tenacious. If the Tenacious would of been made originally in S30VN and manufactured in Golden nobody would bat an eye at a sprint run of S35VN costing $175. It would have sold out in minutes with everyone complaining that they missed out. I for one really appreciate Sal and Eric releasing this upgrade and hope more options are available down the pike.

[sal]

Hi D-Wade,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Sumdumguy]

Just so we're all on the same page, if this turns out to be a good seller and everyone likes it I'm going to say I told ya so and rub it in as hard as I can politely do so. If you ask me this is long over due.

I also agree. Every time a new Chinese-made spydie is released, there's a chorus of "I love the design and quality but I wish it had a better steel." I've contributed significantly to that chorus concerning both the Bow River and the Astute. I think both knives are incredible designs with excellent fit and finish, and I'd happily pay twice the price (or more depending on the scale materials) for either of them with a premium steel.

If the Tenacious debuted as a new model from Taichung with a titanium frame lock and M4 steel people would have been all over it. There's a stigma from being made in China that this model may never overcome, but I personally think it's a better design than the Para 2. It's a near perfect EDC design IMO, only a couple things I'd tweak if I could.

BINGO!

A Ti Framelock and M4 out of Taichung would get my money in a second. Just thinking about it makes me feel all tingly.

As it stands now, I don't buy linerlocks and I dont buy from China(given the choice).

[Diamondback]

I'm thinking of the Tenacious and brethren as a platform; the FRN VG-10 Delica/Endura platform aren't going anywhere despite the infinite variations we have seen from that platform. Many on the forum have been asking for a Tenacious upgrade for quite some time. Let's see what this Chinese maker can do with better steel.

[Mzen]

I am of the opinion that S35VN alone doesn't justify paying double the price for a Tenacious coming out of China. Although that deal could have been sweetened if we saw some small CQI changes to go with the upgraded steel...

Personally, I would have been all over this if it was using T8 screws all around instead of T6 body screws. I'm perfectly fine using my Byrd Hawkbill at work since since it doesn't see nearly as much action compared to my main plain edge blade, but said plain edge does require maintenance from time to time from constantly getting gunked up at work, so T6 is a no go for me, life is too short to worry about stripped screws. It's unfortunate, the Tenacious general shape screams "work knife" from every angle, but this one isn't quite there yet for my specific uses... Maybe an eventual Tenacious 2 might be the one to win me over in the future :spyder:

[Abyss_Fish]

I dunno, I don't think this release is really for us. This to me more feels like a way to get non knife people into the world of not terrible knives. This is a premium version of a knife in one of the most popular lines of budget knives in the world. Having something nicer IN that line shows people currently in that budget world what they can get from a nicer quality knife, while staying within a line they're already comfortable with.

After this they'll be more comfortable moving to the main line, the manix is only a few bucks more, and fancier comp locks like the plain para 3 is only a bit more, from there nicer steels are a bit more, odd taichungs a lil more, and on and on until good ol' uncle randy is buying a Drunken.

This knife is not an upgraded bit of the budget line for forrumites, it's a gateway for people who currently beat the snot out of crkts and kershaws.

[normal]

I dunno, I don't think this release is really for us. This to me more feels like a way to get non knife people into the world of not terrible knives. This is a premium version of a knife in one of the most popular lines of budget knives in the world. Having something nicer IN that line shows people currently in that budget world what they can get from a nicer quality knife, while staying within a line they're already comfortable with.

After this they'll be more comfortable moving to the main line, the manix is only a few bucks more, and fancier comp locks like the plain para 3 is only a bit more, from there nicer steels are a bit more, odd taichungs a lil more, and on and on until good ol' uncle randy is buying a Drunken.

This knife is not an upgraded bit of the budget line for forrumites, it's a gateway for people who currently beat the snot out of crkts and kershaws.

Not for me. I have the PM2, Para 3, GB2, Spydiechef, Yojimbo, Native, etc... and I will be all over this because I think that it is a better design in many ways. I have a Tenacious and the steel is the only thing that keeps it out of my pocket. S35vn is one of my favorite steels and the edge to handle ratio on the Tenacious puts it ahead of other models. I do prefer the compression lock, but the liner lock is ok for me. Easier to use than the backlock. I am sure that there are many like me that just really appreciate the design and the higher steel will make this knife worth it. And yes, it is double the price of the regular model, but for perspective that is only $50 more. If it only cost an extra $50 to get a far superior steel on most knives we would do it in a heartbeat.

[Menipo]

I think that this a masterstroke by Sal & Eric because they manage to kill three birds with one stone:

1) Chinese people are gradually increasing their purchasing power. So offering to hundreds of thousands of potential Chinese customers a knife made in their own country by a top US company witha a premium US steel and costing way more than what they are used to pay (ability to buy expensive products is a sign of success in any society) but way less than what they should pay for products made in Oregon or Seki, is a win-win.

2) There is, I think, another target: people in the US (or Europe) with a limited budget who have been dreaming of a knife with a (really) premium steel and now can get one for the price they can/want to pay.

3) Providing the Chinese partner with a premium steel which allows him to manufacture knives in a different (higher) league, entitles Sypderco to request higher quality levels. If the experiment works and it is replicated a number of times, the Chinese partner might be soon ready to manufacture products which can be hardly differentiated from those made in the US (for a fraction of their cost).

[steelcity16]

And yes, it is double the price of the regular model, but for perspective that is only $50 more. If it only cost an extra $50 to get a far superior steel on most knives we would do it in a heartbeat.

Exactly, people pay over $100 MORE to have Maxamet vs. an already excellent US steel in BD1N in the Manix LW. I'm happy to pay an extra $50 for a much better US steel in a model I love.

[ugaarguy]

I think that this a masterstroke by Sal & Eric because they manage to kill three birds with one stone:

1) Chinese people are gradually increasing their purchasing power. So offering to hundreds of thousands of potential Chinese customers a knife made in their own country by a top US company witha a premium US steel and costing way more than what they are used to pay (ability to buy expensive products is a sign of success in any society) but way less than what they should pay for products made in Oregon or Seki, is a win-win.

2) There is, I think, another target: people in the US (or Europe) with a limited budget who have been dreaming of a knife with a (really) premium steel and now can get one for the price they can/want to pay.

3) Providing the Chinese partner with a premium steel which allows him to manufacture knives in a different (higher) league, entitles Sypderco to request higher quality levels. If the experiment works and it is replicated a number of times, the Chinese partner might be soon ready to manufacture products which can be hardly differentiated from those made in the US (for a fraction of their cost).

1 - China heavily restricts ownership of locking folding knives.

2- The US made Native 5 LW with S30V blade is $105 minimum advertised price in the US, while this Chinese made Tenacious LW with S35VN blade is $98 minimum advertised price. What's the advantage to buying the Chinese made Tenacious when I can get a Colorado, USA made knife of similar size with equivalent blade steel for basically the same price? In the US, I can get dealer exclusive USA made knives from some Spyderco's competitors with frame lock, metal handles, ball bearing pivot, and 20CV blade for $110 or less. Again, where's the price advantage to a plastic handled Chinese made knife.

3 - We'll see if the Chinese partner can bring costs down while providing equal materials, fit, and finish to Spyderco's US made knives. Right now, there's basically no price advantage to buying the Chinese made knife.

Again, I hope it sells well so that the folks who love the Tenacious design and who want it with a premium can easily get it. If it was $75 or less, I might buy one to try it. At $98, nope, I'll support US manufacturing for $7 more.

[steelcity16]

I can get an Ontario Rat folder for ~$30. I really like the design of these knives and the blade shape, but the steel offerings are not my favorite. I would absolutely pay a $50 upgrade to get a Made in China Ontario Rat in Cruwear, or even S35VN. Its not for everyone. They will still sell a million $30 Rats. But now they have captured an additional piece of the market who likes the Rat design, doesn't give a hoot about COO if the knife is good quality and safe to use, but was holding out for a quality steel. So what's the harm in that? I think people are reading too much into hypothetical implications of this. There are many positives that can come of this and few, if any negatives. The knife already existed, so all they had to do was throw some new steel in it. They didn't sink a ton of R&D (aside from getting the maker up to speed on working with a new steel) into a new model like they did on the Polestar and Alcyone. I just don't see the problem here.

[skeeg11]

Amen. I have faith in Spyderco to partner with ethical manufacturers no matter the COO. Spyderco standards always apply. The first run of Rhinos is a poignant case in point.

[JuPaul]

Amen. I have faith in Spyderco to partner with ethical manufacturers no matter the COO. Spyderco standards always apply. The first run of Rhinos is a poignant case in point.

What happened with the first Rhino run?

[SG89]

Amen. I have faith in Spyderco to partner with ethical manufacturers no matter the COO. Spyderco standards always apply. The first run of Rhinos is a poignant case in point.

What happened with the first Rhino run?

Originally it was supposed to be a budget knife out of Taipei for like $40 to $50 with black g10 and can't remember the steel but it didn't meet qc so it got moved to Taichung and was turned into a knife with nicer materials and a matching price tag.

[skeeg11]

The first run did not meet Spyderco's standards so it got tabled Would not even consider selling as seconds. Dunno if Spyderco ate the whole run, but they changed manufacturers to the Taichung plant and upgraded the steel, etc. Took a while to finally release, but it just goes to show you Spyderco's integrity across the whole spectrum of the process.

[Pancake]

Guys, look at this forum.
Every third thread is about suggesting make this model on this steel.
And more often then not, it's change S30V to 20CV, which are so similar in performance that it's not even an upgrade in eyes of some users.

And now, this is a real upgrade. From 8cr to S35VN, that is a big jump in performance.
I really can't wrap my head around about this situation. Native 5 has a similar price tag to Tenacious LW? And like what now? One is backlock, one linerlock, one has a choil, no doesn't, one has less edge, one has more. There are 2 different knives for ... sake! Blade length speaking, Tenacious dwarfs Native, so more edge for less money.
If you want this model, you want this model, not a Native, or Para, or Manix, or whatever.
And I am going to repeat myself, in Europe, you pay way more for Native, as for upcoming Tenacious LW.

[Diamondback]

Doesn't it make sense that Spyderco's profit made from selling a Chinese-made Tenacious, whatever the material, helps to pay salaries and bonuses of USA Spyderco staff, assist in Golden's maintenance and expansion, and aid development and research?

Just sayin'. The cold facts are that the Golden plant doesn't have the capacity to make all those models now produced in China, Taichung , and Seki. Yet, profits from those sales still benefit workers in the USA.

For all we know this forum is the "child" of the sale of thousands of Tenacious. :D

[Menipo]

I think that this a masterstroke by Sal & Eric because they manage to kill three birds with one stone:

1) Chinese people are gradually increasing their purchasing power. So offering to hundreds of thousands of potential Chinese customers a knife made in their own country by a top US company witha a premium US steel and costing way more than what they are used to pay (ability to buy expensive products is a sign of success in any society) but way less than what they should pay for products made in Oregon or Seki, is a win-win.

2) There is, I think, another target: people in the US (or Europe) with a limited budget who have been dreaming of a knife with a (really) premium steel and now can get one for the price they can/want to pay.

3) Providing the Chinese partner with a premium steel which allows him to manufacture knives in a different (higher) league, entitles Sypderco to request higher quality levels. If the experiment works and it is replicated a number of times, the Chinese partner might be soon ready to manufacture products which can be hardly differentiated from those made in the US (for a fraction of their cost).

1 - China heavily restricts ownership of locking folding knives.

2- The US made Native 5 LW with S30V blade is $105 minimum advertised price in the US, while this Chinese made Tenacious LW with S35VN blade is $98 minimum advertised price. What's the advantage to buying the Chinese made Tenacious when I can get a Colorado, USA made knife of similar size with equivalent blade steel for basically the same price? In the US, I can get dealer exclusive USA made knives from some Spyderco's competitors with frame lock, metal handles, ball bearing pivot, and 20CV blade for $110 or less. Again, where's the price advantage to a plastic handled Chinese made knife.

3 - We'll see if the Chinese partner can bring costs down while providing equal materials, fit, and finish to Spyderco's US made knives. Right now, there's basically no price advantage to buying the Chinese made knife.

Again, I hope it sells well so that the folks who love the Tenacious design and who want it with a premium can easily get it. If it was $75 or less, I might buy one to try it. At $98, nope, I'll support US manufacturing for $7 more.

1- Laws of many countries (including mine) restrict heavily the ownership of certain knives as well. But this does not mean that there is no market for them. For instance, in my country autos are so heavily restricted ... that they are banned. But many of my friends have autos in their collections. They will never carry them but autos are essential to have a complete collection.

2 - I would buy your argument if for patriotic reasons you would be willing to pay an extra of, say, $20 for the SAME Tenacious made at the Oregon plant. But the Native 5 LW argument does not convince me. They are completely different knifes (different lock system, different blade/handle ratio, different shape ..) Locback and leaf shape are way down in my list of preferences and I would never buy a knife because it is made in my country, if I do not like it.

3. I am sure the Chinese partner will manage to do that if he is offered the opportunity. First, because I am sure that Spyderco only partners with the very best of the best, and second because when many costs in the process (including labour cost) are significantly lower than their equivalent in the US, the price can be significantly reduced. Manufacturing abroad is perfectly OK for me because profits generated by the outbound operation many times allow to pay salaries or fund R&D at home. In addtion, and with all due respect, lower labour costs does not equals to slave work. I dunno the labour conditions of the workers who manufacture the Tenacious, but I would bet that they are better than those of some Mexican peons who harvest US grapes at Napa Valley to produce US made Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon ($6,000 a bottle).

I have pre-ordered one. I want to see how S35VN sharpens and I prefer to do my experiment with a blade under $100 (before putting at risk more expensive blades I have in my collection ....)

[bearfacedkiller]

I have typed up multiple comments for this thread and I cannot bring myself to post them. They have been either to negative or too political. I have had my fill of both of those things here in 2020.

I will just say that I don’t get it and I am gonna pass on this one.

[Spyderman91]

I have typed up multiple comments for this thread and I cannot bring myself to post them. They have been either to negative or too political. I have had my fill of both of those things here in 2020.

I will just say that I don’t get it and I am gonna pass on this one.

Same here brother, I love the tenacious for what it is (as a budget folder). The steel upgrade is great for tenacious nuts, but like I said earlier in the thread.... For the price point there are A LOT of options, especially from China. Civivi probably makes the best under 100 dollar Chinese knives on the market. Do I love the tenacious you bet, but only because it was my first Spyderco knife. The price point allowed it to be, and the quality construction sold me as a customer for life. I'd rather have g10 than frn with upgraded steel, or not. If I wanted a frn model... I'd get a para 3 lw, or manix lw. Both are fantastic knives with descent steels, made in America and not much more than this tenacious.