Spyderco Siren Observations

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
aicolainen
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Location: Norway

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby aicolainen » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:38 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:48 pm
Hi aicolainen, I’ll throw my 2 cents in and offer a little insight into the Waterway design. One of the goals I had when designing that knife was to create a knife that I could throw in a dry bag and head down the coast on a multi day kayak trip. I wanted a “do everything” knife that could handle fishing, fish processing, and general camping and survival tasks. I wanted a single knife that could do everything necessary in the wilderness and could perform in the harshest of environments.

I actually did just that kind of trip two weeks ago and though I brought a Siren and a couple of other knives to play with, there was nothing that I did on that trip that the Waterway couldn’t handle. It performed fish cleaning, rope cutting, wood processing, food prep...it did it all, just like it was intended to by design. I think the Aqua Salt is a superb design and would be quite capable too. I don’t have an opinion on which one would be better for you but I can tell you that that what you are describing is VERY close to the usage for which the Waterway was designed.
I can't believe it took me so long to realize the qualities of this forum. This is so helpful, Lance. Really appreciate your input!

aicolainen
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Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby aicolainen » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:59 am

vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.

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zuludelta
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby zuludelta » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:04 pm

vivi wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:01 am
Hmm, good question. I'd be more comfortable with the Pacific as a work knife....bit cheaper to replace, easier to clean, and less to think about when opening and closing it multiple times a day. The Siren I still catch myself reverting to different closing methods sometimes.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

vivi
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Posts: 7428
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby vivi » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 pm

aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:59 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.
Sanding down the G10 of the Waterway or Siren would easily "fix" the handle if you do find it too abrasive.

Like I said I could be happy with either knife for a general purpose outdoors knife, so I can say with confidence the Waterway should serve you well.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

Monty
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Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:49 am
Location: South of DC

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby Monty » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:01 pm

The Siren was the only knife I wanted from the last reveal and I carried it exclusively for a week or two when it finally arrived. Then bit by bit I started carrying the Pac Salt and the Carribbean again. Finally, I ended up not carrying the Siren at all and after a while I gifted it to a friend.

It's a phenomenally well executed backlock, the tolerances and ergos are great (a drop shut backock, wow). Ultimately, it just wasn't serrated.

When a Serrated Siren comes out I'll be ready to throw it back into the routine. Until then, the Waterway serves dedicated fishing tasks just fine and I'll carry the serrated options I have.

aicolainen
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Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby aicolainen » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:35 pm

vivi wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 pm
aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:59 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.
Sanding down the G10 of the Waterway or Siren would easily "fix" the handle if you do find it too abrasive.

Like I said I could be happy with either knife for a general purpose outdoors knife, so I can say with confidence the Waterway should serve you well.
Ordered. It’s on back order, so going half way around the world when everything is moving at COVID speed, it’ll hopefully be here before
outdoor season kicks off again in the spring :-)

Wish I had it already. Off to a canoe trip this weekend. Would have been perfect.

vivi
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Posts: 7428
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby vivi » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:58 pm

Haven't been carrying this knife so much lately since I've been running experiments with my M4 Manix XL and K390 Police 4.

Carried it as a work knife tonight and it worked well.

Image

The extra grippy scales and deep guard were appreciated more with wet or greasy hands than in day to day life where my grip isn't typically as compromised. Depressing the lock and flicking the knife closed was fun. The blade shape was nice for the sorts of things I use a folder at work for.

Don't recall the last time I sharpened it. While it cut everything I needed it to cut today, it won't even scrape shave and there's a tiny little chip in the middle of the belly. Whenever I decide what finish I'm going to give it, I'll make a post in the community sharpening journal.

Since the Pacific Salt 2 is such a familiar knife for me, I think I'm going to carry the Siren at work for the rest of the month to get some more hands on time with the design.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

vivi
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Posts: 7428
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:41 pm

Finally got the handle taken apart. Soaked it in some really hot but not boiling water for two minutes, and that loosened the thread locker right up.

Image

edit - Here's a few more pictures of the inside:

Image
Image

D shaped pivot hole and the lock-up
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

StuntZombie
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Location: ESVA
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby StuntZombie » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:21 pm

I got a screaming deal on a Siren from a buddy of mine, and it gave me the opportunity to try it out without paying full price. I'm kinda glad I did, because ultimately I found the design just isn't for me. It's a very nicely made knife, but I seem to keep hitting that dang lockbar. I was also surprised by the thickness of the blade at the edge. I didn't expect it to be as thin as something like the Nilakka, but just..thinner. That was an easy fix though, and I've been somewhat impressed by how well it held an edge. It's kinda made me undecided on whether I find it necessary to get the Pacific Salt in LC200N in a serrated edge.

In the end, it's a great knife, just not a good fit for me.
Chris

I have a blog! http://thestuntzombie.com/

Haves: Manbug Salt, Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK, Wharncliffe Delica, Ti Squeak, Salt 2 Wharncliffe, Wharncliffe Dragonfly, DLT Trading Cru-Wear Delica, Gen 1 Delica

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Bloke
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Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby Bloke » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:51 pm

vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:41 pm


Image

D shaped pivot hole
Vivi, is that all that holds the pivot pin from spinning? Does the pivot pin have a Torx socket like the pivot pin cap screw?
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

Postby vivi » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:37 pm

Bloke wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:51 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:41 pm


Image

D shaped pivot hole
Vivi, is that all that holds the pivot pin from spinning? Does the pivot pin have a Torx socket like the pivot pin cap screw?
Yep, seems its just the D shape of the pivot holes in the G10 that keeps it stable. Both sides of the pivot pin look the same. There are two torx screws that thread into it, one on each side, while the pivot pin rests mostly inside the blade.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt


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