Slim or none?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Baron Mind
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Slim or none?

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:18 pm

What are the chances of seeing a sprint run of the Astute in British racing green g10 and ZDP-189? I'm sure it's slim to none, but is it slim, or none? 😂

Would anyone else be interested? I am very fond of the design, and I'm sure it's perfectly functional as is, but I think the configuration above would make for a pretty amazing knife.

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Evil D
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Evil D » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:22 pm

Specifically in that combo, I'm thinking less than slim to none since the Astute is made in China and ZDP is a Japanese steel. This bring up the question of when does a value folder stop being a value folder, which is a discussion I've tried to have in the past and it seems to break people's brains because they can't unsee a value folder from being a value folder. I asked for a premium Golden made Tenacious once and it almost started a riot.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Mushroom
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Mushroom » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:36 pm

The first variation of any model, typically, has to sell well for Spyderco to consider a second variation. I would definitely recommend picking up the current Astute, if you haven't already.

Regarding an Astute with ZDP189 and BRG G10, if the chances aren't none they're incredibly slim. I would actually expect to see an "upgraded" Tenacious before a knife like the Astute. It has a long established reputation and would undoubtedly sell well in an "upgraded" combination.
- Nick

:spyder:

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The Mastiff
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby The Mastiff » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:48 pm

I think I remember Sal taking about the vendor they currently use not wanting to go with the high end high wear resistance steels. That certainly includes ZDP.

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steelcity16
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby steelcity16 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:22 pm

I asked for a premium Golden made Tenacious once and it almost started a riot.

I did the same with the same results. I still like the idea of a Cruwear Tenacious. Cru-carta even.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

Baron Mind
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?

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xceptnl
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby xceptnl » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:00 pm

Some custom makers specialize in fabrication of aftermarket high end blades for Spyderco production knives. If your pockets are deep enough.
Image
sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

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araneae
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby araneae » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:00 pm

Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?
BD1, BD1N
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Evil D
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Evil D » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:07 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:22 pm

I asked for a premium Golden made Tenacious once and it almost started a riot.

I did the same with the same results. I still like the idea of a Cruwear Tenacious. Cru-carta even.

We're a very small minority it seems. The Caribbean is basically the premium Tenacious I wanted, though I still think it would shine in more than just Salt steel/color combos. If the Tenacious was made in Golden with a compression or back lock I'd buy every version they make.

And if they did all that with the Resilience too I'd just be so happy.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

Baron Mind
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:25 pm

araneae wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:00 pm
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?
BD1, BD1N
Micarta and bd1n wouldn't be too shabby!

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Cambertree
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Cambertree » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:59 pm

Hitachi also apparently require heat treating of ZDP189 to be done only by selected/accredited companies.

So chances are probably zero of seeing this model made in Seki.

But I like the way you’re thinking - I would love to see the Astute in ZDP189. I’ll get one anyway, no doubt - it’s such a graceful design, and would be a perfect ‘first proper knife’ for kids who’ve shown themselves to be responsible enough to have one.

But it would have been great as a Seki model, with all the possible sprints and variations that would offer.

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Wartstein
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:35 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:07 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:22 pm

I asked for a premium Golden made Tenacious once and it almost started a riot.

I did the same with the same results. I still like the idea of a Cruwear Tenacious. Cru-carta even.

We're a very small minority it seems. The Caribbean is basically the premium Tenacious I wanted, though I still think it would shine in more than just Salt steel/color combos. If the Tenacious was made in Golden with a compression or back lock I'd buy every version they make.

And if they did all that with the Resilience too I'd just be so happy.

A higher end (concerning steel) Tenacious or Resilience would be great! I clearly would prefer it over the Caribbean, just since I like the liner lock a lot more than the comp.lock and the Tenacious comes in thinner bladestock.

But if it came with a BACKlock that would be even better, especially if the "edge all the way to the handle" design would be kept! (Which it would not, I guess... See the discussions in some other threads...)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Pancake
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Pancake » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:45 am

I would say none.
But maybe you can go custom route and someone else could make a blade for astute....for maybe 300-400 USD.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Waterway

ladybug93
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:03 am

Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?
d2 is often used in budget chinese folders now. i've suggested d2 versions of their budget line. based on what i've seen from other companies, it should only give a slight bump in the cost to have a much better (although still not premium) steel.
Evil D wrote: And if they did all that with the Resilience too I'd just be so happy.
a d2 resilience would be a great outdoors beater knife.

Sumdumguy
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Sumdumguy » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 am

The Astute should have been a Seki backlock.

It would have been nearly perfect!

Notsurewhy
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Notsurewhy » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:53 am

araneae wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:00 pm
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?
BD1, BD1N
I'm fairly sure they use multiple Chinese factories, but I don't know that any have ever done BD1n. The polestar and alcyone are bd1 but didn't get upgraded to bd1n when the golden and Taiwan models got cqi. Sal has stated that they believe the higher material cost was already leading to poor sales for those models.

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araneae
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby araneae » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:49 pm

Notsurewhy wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:53 am
araneae wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:00 pm
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm
Ah my mistake, I don't know why I was thinking the Astute was made in Seki. I probably will get the base model soon. And I know the numerous calls for an upgraded Tenacious have gone unanswered. That's why I figured an upgraded Astute would be highly unlikely, but it's still fun to consider. And in this day and age with companies like CRKT doing premium sprints of the Pilar and such, I thought there might be the slightest chance.

Has Spyderco's China plant ever worked with anything other than 8cr?
BD1, BD1N
I'm fairly sure they use multiple Chinese factories, but I don't know that any have ever done BD1n. The polestar and alcyone are bd1 but didn't get upgraded to bd1n when the golden and Taiwan models got cqi. Sal has stated that they believe the higher material cost was already leading to poor sales for those models.
Could be, I thought it was a rolling change to BD1N across the board.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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mikey177
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby mikey177 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:46 pm

Other Chinese makers like Reate use S35VN, RWL34 and M390 in their knives. It does bump up the price considerably, but it shows that China isn't limited to 8Cr and related steels.

Notsurewhy
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby Notsurewhy » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:14 am

mikey177 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:46 pm
Other Chinese makers like Reate use S35VN, RWL34 and M390 in their knives. It does bump up the price considerably, but it shows that China isn't limited to 8Cr and related steels.
It's not that no one in China can use better steel, it's just the factories Spyderco uses either don't have the capability or desire to do so. It's not as simple as slapping new blanks in the production line. Heat treatment of high end steel takes time and effort, different protocols and sometimes better equipment.

I think Sal has said that Eric convinced one of their Chinese makers to try better steel than 8cr so that should be coming.

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toocool006
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Re: Slim or none?

Postby toocool006 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:01 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 am
The Astute should have been a Seki backlock.

It would have been nearly perfect!
Definitely should have been made somewhere with sprint potential! I came here thinking of starting a similar "we should sprint the astute" thread. I would love it as a backlock, but would definitely get bitten as I do the blade falling on finger backlock close with all my spydies, and this edge doesn't have any choil/ricasso to let me get away with that :cool:
~andrew


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