The perceived need for instantaneous one hand operation has driven folding knife design into a dead end

[wrdwrght]

A Darwinian, such as myself, understands that each line of descent is really a series of developments that drive the line deeper into a cul-de-sac...until one of its old or new characteristics, because advantageous in present circumstances, becomes a new development, even if only an incremental one.

I don’t see Spyderco as happy to be hidebound. Looking back over the catalog, I see lots of evolutionary developments that tell me the present cul-de-sac is not likely permanent. That is, unless pocket lasers become a thing to end all other knives...

Tigers can’t change their stripes, but if you like them, that’s a feature, not a fault.

[MichaelScott]

I’ve heard biologists say that crocodylians haven’t evolved very much over the last few million years because they were already so well-adapted to their environments that new mutations were merely deviations from their optimal builds. I suspect that the contemporary folding knife is much the same. If I compare the oldest Spydercos in my collection (from the mid-90s) to my most recent purchases, the main design features are the same: round hole to facilitate one-handed opening with either hand in a variety of positions; pocket clip for secure carry and easy access; strong and simple locking mechanism; Spyderedge serrations for aggressive cutting through stubborn materials (on some of the knives); etc. There have been some improvements over the years (4-way clip, compression lock, new materials like H1 and LC200N), but I think the really important evolutionary leaps have been so adaptive that they are hard to surpass with something that would render them obsolete.

Maybe that’s why the blades on my serrated Spydercos look a bit like crocodile heads. :)

Excellent response. I suspect that significant innovations would render the current models obsolete. I’d also venture that the croc’s environment (namely us) May put paid to their glacial evolutionary development. We would the be, I suppose, the significant innovations n.

[TomAiello]

...
Because getting a fixed blade back into the sheath one handed is FAR more difficult than closing a folder and clipping it into my pocket....

Moras setup works really well from a working perspective, but it seems like they designed their sheaths specifically for that. Most other fixed blade sheaths do not work as well for resheathing.

Hmm.... I'll look into that. Eventually I want to have made or make my own kydex sheath for my Street Beat and see if I can work out a way to safely sheath it "blind". I'm thinking of how competition pistols have a mag well..

My best results come from carrying a kydex sheath horizontally just to the side of my belt buckle. I can use the belt and buckle as 'landmarks' to guide my hand. I choke way up on the knife so that my finger tip can ride just above the tip as it moves. This lets me use my finger tip to feel where the sheath opening is and guide the tip into it. This method works fairly well when I'm standing, but has problems when sitting, and especially when hanging in a harness. It's also not a great carry method for any of my fixed blades longer than about 3.5", because it's hard to get my finger tip to the point of the blade, and also because the horizontal position is unwieldy for wearing something relatively large and heavy.

[MichaelScott]

As far as I can tell once you've mixed and matched all the variables above, that's it, there's nothing new under the sun until someone invents a new way to do the above.

Exactly.

[Sharp Guy]

Looked at another way, the modern one-handed opening knife strives to be a fixed blade when open and a folder in your pocket. If one frequently encounters the need for one-handed opening knives in work, why not attach a suitable fixed blade to the ladder or toss one in the tool box? That argument does not hold up.

Because it's much more handy for me to keep a folder in my pocket where I have access to it all the time. I will not carry a fixed blade on my waste and they don't fit in my pocket very well.


Interesting thread Michael! Some of us are really happy with all these stifling innovations. Hope somebody can decipher what it is you're looking for and dream it up someday.

[JakeXman]

As far as I can tell once you've mixed and matched all the variables above, that's it, there's nothing new under the sun until someone invents a new way to do the above.

I gotta agree with you here. IMO the modern folder platform allows more opportunity for innovation. People will think up brilliant new locks, blade shapes, and clip designs, whereas a traditional slipjoint has more limitations for innovation without becoming a modern folder. Maybe those limitations brought out the best creative minds in designers then, but I prefer they keep moving forward in design.

Perhaps the focus is on modern folders because they are the evolution of traditional design. Why innovate on a horsedrawn buggy when modern cars are present?

[DSH007]

It’s interesting that the OP brings this up considering his critique of the Swayback. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87377

The OP says, “The Swayback was designed as a one-handed knife. It didn’t meet even that basic requirement.” I have a two-handed swayback slip joint which, in addition to having two blades, works much better and quicker than the Spyderco SwayBack.

While most of you have expressed why you like a one-handed knife, no one has addressed my claim of stunted innovation other than small changes to that basic design. The fact that you like them isn’t the point.

And, yes, our ancestors are dead. That is why they are ancestors.

I'm sorry Michael, I just cannot get behind your claim of "stunted innovation".. Whether or not the features discussed appeal to you, I'd argue that we are at the pinnacle of innovation when it comes to knife design. Be it one-handed operation, lock-types, washers/bearings, ergonomics, edge-geometry, blade shape, scales options, designer collabs, steel variety, hardware, corrosion resistance, and on and on and on.. manufacturers continue to react to the demands of users and advance CQI.. this is all innovation. I also consider the ability of manufacturers to bring such a variety of products to users to be innovation.. the choices we have now.. good choices.. excellent choices!.. when selecting a new knife vs even a decade ago.. it just blows my mind. This manufacturing capability is innovation.

There is something to be said for the old rivaling the new.. the argument can certainly be made that 40 year old knife cuts just as well as a brand new Para 3 LW fresh off the line. I recently bought a Buck 110. I've always wanted to own one because.. well, it's a classic right? And it is very nice.. a really well-made, highly functional tool.. that I will probably never carry. Compared to the Para 3 LW that's been spending a lot of time in my pocket this summer, the 110 is almost laughably heavy. Two handed opening/closing is awkward. The steel is what it is. None of this makes the 110 a bad knife, but in comparison with the P3, it absolutely highlights to me the innovation that has occurred in the last half century or so. From steel, to weight, to ease of use, ease of carry, etc, the Para 3 is objectively and subjectively superior to me in every way.

So what does the future of knife design have in store? I'm excited to see! But "stunted innovation?" I'm simply not buying it..

[MichaelScott]

Let’s get way outside the the container for a moment. The year is 2031. The combination of shrunken government and advances in AI and nano-technology have brought us a completely malleable and reasonably intelligent base material substance, that can, when instructed, assume many forms and characteristics.

“Hey Nigel,” you say. “I need a knife.”
“Right away, sir,” Nigel responds. (Siri, Hal, Mongo and other suitable names have been copyrighted.)
A small amorphous ball of strangely solid yet squishy substance appears before you.
“Make it, oh, a 3” plain edge drop point.”
The amorphous ball quivers for a moment and becomes a 3” drop point knife, shaped to exactly fit your grip, for it knows intimately your measurements and characteristics, likes and dislikes.
You use it, then say, “OK,Nigel, I’m done.”
Nigel, and the knife, disappear until summoned again.
Better than multiple blades in one handle, eh?

[MichaelScott]

Looked at another way, the modern one-handed opening knife strives to be a fixed blade when open and a folder in your pocket. If one frequently encounters the need for one-handed opening knives in work, why not attach a suitable fixed blade to the ladder or toss one in the tool box? That argument does not hold up.

Because it's much more handy for me to keep a folder in my pocket where I have access to it all the time. I will not carry a fixed blade on my waste and they don't fit in my pocket very well.


Interesting thread Michael! Some of us are really happy with all these stifling innovations. Hope somebody can decipher what it is you're looking for and dream it up someday.

Me too, and I feel confident that it will happen.

[Mushroom]

There are folding knives and there are fixed blade knives. We can't reinvent the wheel.

[VooDooChild]

Let’s get way outside the the container for a moment. The year is 2031. The combination of shrunken government and advances in AI and nano-technology have brought us a completely malleable and reasonably intelligent base material substance, that can, when instructed, assume many forms and characteristics.

“Hey Nigel,” you say. “I need a knife.”
“Right away, sir,” Nigel responds. (Siri, Hal, Mongo and other suitable names have been copyrighted.)
A small amorphous ball of strangely solid yet squishy substance appears before you.
“Make it, oh, a 3” plain edge drop point.”
The amorphous ball quivers for a moment and becomes a 3” drop point knife, shaped to exactly fit your grip, for it knows intimately your measurements and characteristics, likes and dislikes.
You use it, then say, “OK,Nigel, I’m done.”
Nigel, and the knife, disappear until summoned again.
Better than multiple blades in one handle, eh?

Nano tech, paired with the concept of advanced utility fog, paired with A.I., paired with a neural interface, will be pretty close to the ultimate technology. At that point people basically have magic super powers. But I think its a long ways off.

[Mushroom]

Let’s get way outside the the container for a moment. The year is 2031. The combination of shrunken government and advances in AI and nano-technology have brought us a completely malleable and reasonably intelligent base material substance, that can, when instructed, assume many forms and characteristics.

“Hey Nigel,” you say. “I need a knife.”
“Right away, sir,” Nigel responds. (Siri, Hal, Mongo and other suitable names have been copyrighted.)
A small amorphous ball of strangely solid yet squishy substance appears before you.
“Make it, oh, a 3” plain edge drop point.”
The amorphous ball quivers for a moment and becomes a 3” drop point knife, shaped to exactly fit your grip, for it knows intimately your measurements and characteristics, likes and dislikes.
You use it, then say, “OK,Nigel, I’m done.”
Nigel, and the knife, disappear until summoned again.
Better than multiple blades in one handle, eh?

SEF, is that you ?! :eek:

[MichaelScott]

There are folding knives and there are fixed blade knives. We can't reinvent the wheel.

How about the airplane?

[Mushroom]

There are folding knives and there are fixed blade knives. We can't reinvent the wheel.

How about the airplane?

You're not implying that an airplane is a wheel, are you ?

[MichaelScott]

Implying better, safer transport.

[VooDooChild]

Theres a difference between making something new, and understanding a theoretical limitation.

You cant reinvent the wheel. Its a math joke at the end of the day. A theoretically perfect wheel cant be achieved. Any other design isnt defined as a wheel. A wheel is always a wheel and it is unavoidable. You can continue to make a better wheel until you become limited by the laws of physics and the universe itself. But its still just a wheel.

Edit:
Before someone decides to tell me all the ways the "wheel" has been reinvented...
The idea is the concept that you can not create a perfect circle nor can you redefine one in order to accomplish this.

The idea you shouldnt reinvent the wheel is sound. Nothing is going to out wheel a wheel.

[Mushroom]

Implying better, safer transport.

Well, I guess until lightsabers are created then, yes you're right, folding knife innovation has come to a dead end.

I think you might enjoy some of Darriel Caston's work. https://drdgear.com
He has worked with Spyderco before to produce the Squarehead but some of his own personal work is really unique and innovative, in my opinion. His manual OTF is a rather novel concept and doesn't seem to have been done before. At least not in the way he did it, but I could be wrong. He also has a knife called the "whorl" based on the flint knapped stones used by our early ancestors.

[GarageBoy]

There's plenty of makers who revisit traditional designs with modern materials when you're aiming for "going back to a simpler time" - many of our ancestors would have loved one hand open and close

Just as there people who love incandescent bulb flashlights (mainly because they like high CRI) as opposed to LED flashlights

[MichaelScott]

There's plenty of makers who revisit traditional designs with modern materials when you're aiming for "going back to a simpler time" - many of our ancestors would have loved one hand open and close

True. But what’s your point?

[JRinFL]

It’s interesting that the OP brings this up considering his critique of the Swayback. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87377

The OP says, “The Swayback was designed as a one-handed knife. It didn’t meet even that basic requirement.” I have a two-handed swayback slip joint which, in addition to having two blades, works much better and quicker than the Spyderco SwayBack.

While most of you have expressed why you like a one-handed knife, no one has addressed my claim of stunted innovation other than small changes to that basic design. The fact that you like them isn’t the point.

And, yes, our ancestors are dead. That is why they are ancestors.

The Swayback works as a one handed or two handed knife.

I'm not really sure where you you are going with this? A properly designed knife will resemble all previous iterations, since it is meant to be a knife. Just like humans, humans will have small changes to the basic design, but will still conform to the same overall design. Other than gimmicks, I really don't see any great revolutionary changes that can be made to knife design.