The perceived need for instantaneous one hand operation has driven folding knife design into a dead end

[steelcity16]

I suspect it is exceptionally rare for a knife cutting task to require all that a modern one-handed knife offers. If one is in a situation that frequently requires that, a fixed blade knife is often a good choice.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't want to set something down, put my phone down, get off a ladder, put a flashlight down, take thick work gloves off, try to maneuver both hands while laying on my back under a car, etc to open/close a traditional GEC style nail nick knife with two hands. I also don't want to carry a fixed blade EDC and most other people do not either, so having a fixed blade to pull out isn't an option for most situations.

Why do I say this? My thinking is that, in contrast to quality traditional knife makers, these one-handed requirements continue to stifle innovation except in the narrowest sense. Ceremaic detent balls are not earth shaking events. Nor are ball bearing washers.

What are some innovations that companies like GEC, Case, Buck, etc have done in this area? In my mind these knives are only really for collectors/flippers, older gentlemen who grew up with these knives and who don't like change/innovation, people who want to feel nostalgic for the good old days and remember their fathers carrying these knives, or people who want show how hip and trendy they are. Don't get me wrong, I like GEC and think they are beautiful knives, but they are far from what I would want in an actual user knife so I have never pulled the trigger despite lusting after a few. I don't really think they are particularly innovative though.

[ChrisinHove]

One handed opening is like having a handle on a coffee mug for me.

It’s not absolutely essential, but better, and some handles are much better than others.

I certainly don’t need two, however, or anything too elaborate, complicated or expensive - in the same way I don’t need flippers, bearings, Emerson waves.

Does OHO push knife design down one path? It must do, as it dictates hand position at deployment.

Just not sure about the dead - end bit.

Great topic!

[James Y]

The carry of fixed blade knives (even small,ones) is not allowed in every location.

I like and use both one-handed and two-handed knives every day. I always have the same two SAKs that see a lot of use, as well as a Spyderco on me. So for me, my preference isn’t one or the other. I also own many traditional pocketknives from Buck, Case, Schrade (original Schrade from back in the ‘70s), Ka-Bar, etc. They are the knives I started out with as a kid.

Who is to say that, if one-handed knives had been innovated much earlier, with modern-style thumb studs, Spyderholes, etc., in ergonomic handles and acceptable-looking ( for the times) blade styles, that our ancestors wouldn’t have used and liked them; maybe even preferred them in some cases?

Also, as was previously posted, some people may have an injury or disability that prevents them from using two hands. After the Civil War, some pocketknives were given a cutout at the end of the blade, to give war veterans who had lost an arm the ability to open their jackknives one-handed, by catching the end on a belt loop, edge of a table, etc., to open it. So non-automatic pocketknives capable of being opened one-handed are not an entirely modern-day concept.

Jim

[Doc Dan]

AS for the OP, I can see how OHO and the other things listed can inhibit the growth of folding knife design into new areas. ALso, though, we must understand that given the nature of the job of such knives and the design of the human hand, there are going to be limitations as to where design can go. I know Spyderco revolutionized the knife world with one hand opening, clips, and steel innovations that all companies copy. I think it is this copying of Spyderco that is the real limitation. Thumb studs are simply a different take on the hole, but still for the same purpose, for example. No one thinks outside of the box like Sal did in those heady early days.

I can see adding AI to knife design in the near future. "Hey Siri, open my knife" and "Hey Siri, close my knife" might become commonplace in the near future and no one is thinking of it now.

[aicolainen]

Most innovation is driven by necessity, and the tools our ancestors bear, was the best innovations they could come up with to survive in nature. We are so removed from that reality, it's hardly comparable.
Progress and innovation today isn't necessarily progress in it's own right, but innovations designed to circumvent artificial restraints imposed by changes in legislative, cultural and social acceptance.
Even the marketplace is to a large degree artificial. Very few people need a knife, or know that they need a knife. And even fewer really need another knife, so many designs are adaptations to this reality, where the only innovation are novelty features whose sole purpose is to make us want another knife.

Vote with your money, we get the innovations we deserve.

[The Deacon]

Every modern folder design must have these elements: bearings or washers of some type, an opening and closing mechanism that can be operated with one hand, a lock (in the majority of cases) that can be released with one hand, some kind of pocket clip, and a single blade.

Battles rage about the best clip, where it must, or must not be placed. Which lock is best, strongest, easiest to operate. Not to mention steels and steel-like blade material,grinds, shapes and scales.

As we all know our ancestors functioned very capably with none of these. A handle, one or more blades for different types of cutting tasks, interesting shapes and scale materials from bone to micarta. Bolsters are common on traditional knives, as is 1095 carbon steel.

I suspect it is exceptionally rare for a knife cutting task to require all that a modern one-handed knife offers. If one is in a situation that frequently requires that, a fixed blade knife is often a good choice.

Why do I say this? My thinking is that, in contrast to quality traditional knife makers, these one-handed requirements continue to stifle innovation except in the narrowest sense. Ceremaic detent balls are not earth shaking events. Nor are ball bearing washers.

I’d like to see Spyderco and other top companies break out and show us some real innovative (dare I say multiple blade) designs.

Look on the bright side, Michael, at least those "must have" features are the market driven result of manufacturers innovating and consumers deciding the new feature was worthwhile. That's a stark contrast to automobiles where manufacturers are stifled by, and consumers are forced to pay for, features that are mandated by some government agency in the name of safety or the environment.

[Evil D]

My ancestors didn't do the work I do, under the same pressure I work under, with the same risks I deal with. They also didn't have to worry about blade length laws or concealment.

[araneae]

Features such as those mentioned are the reason I use those types of knives more than traditionals. Can they do the same jobs? Sometimes, but they are inconvenient by comparison. Remember when we used to plow fields with horses? Did the tractor stifle horse and plow innovation?

[dj moonbat]

I don’t really understand the ‘dead end’ logic. There are far, far more knife mechanisms than there used to be before Spyderco brought one-handed folders to the world. It’s not even close. You may not like all these different mechanical avenues of exploration, but those avenues aren’t dead ends.

So apparently, it’s got something to do with that ‘multiple blade’ bit. You wish somebody would make a better Swiss Army Knife?

[SubMicron]

The growing list of various one-handed mechanisms, in my mind, are the big advancements and innovations in the knife industry.

[Sumdumguy]

It’s interesting that the OP brings this up considering his critique of the Swayback. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87377

Glad I'm not the only one who caught the contradiction.

I personally think that without Spyderco's opening hole, clips and other improvements, knife design would definitely be painted into a corner.

Fortunately, we have people like Sal and Spyderco, who constantly push the boundaries on knife innovation and "force" us to experience these and learn for ourselves.

[MichaelScott]

Looked at another way, the modern one-handed opening knife strives to be a fixed blade when open and a folder in your pocket. If one frequently encounters the need for one-handed opening knives in work, why not attach a suitable fixed blade to the ladder or toss one in the tool box? That argument does not hold up.

Some seem to assume I don’t like modern folders. This is true if they come equipped with thumb studs and flipper tabs, or are fancied up slabs of Ti that look suspiciously like other makers slabs and cost more than a set of tires. Also, I have and have had enough Spydercos to foil that assumption as well.

What kind of innovations are being stifled? How would I know? Innovations are brand new, never considered and significant advances on current trends, like the Wright flyer. Haven’t been done before.

No, it’s not objectively false to say the Swayback can’t be opened with one hand. I can’t and there are others who can’t do it too.

Thanks to Doc Dan for innovative thinking and an open mind.

“ Did the tractor stifle horse and plow innovation?” Yes it did.

Deacon, yes, government, the “big mommie”.

Aiocolain: “ where the only innovation are novelty features whose sole purpose is to make us want another knife.” with a few notable exceptions (Spyderco) I agree.

CristinHove: “ Does OHO push knife design down one path? It must do, as it dictates hand position at deployment.” Thanks. Did not think of that.

Bloke: no word from El Gringo yet.

Well, that’s all I have time for. Entertaining and sometimes thoughtful replies. Thank you

[Takuan]

I’ve heard biologists say that crocodylians haven’t evolved very much over the last few million years because they were already so well-adapted to their environments that new mutations were merely deviations from their optimal builds. I suspect that the contemporary folding knife is much the same. If I compare the oldest Spydercos in my collection (from the mid-90s) to my most recent purchases, the main design features are the same: round hole to facilitate one-handed opening with either hand in a variety of positions; pocket clip for secure carry and easy access; strong and simple locking mechanism; Spyderedge serrations for aggressive cutting through stubborn materials (on some of the knives); etc. There have been some improvements over the years (4-way clip, compression lock, new materials like H1 and LC200N), but I think the really important evolutionary leaps have been so adaptive that they are hard to surpass with something that would render them obsolete.

Maybe that’s why the blades on my serrated Spydercos look a bit like crocodile heads. :)

[Evil D]

Looked at another way, the modern one-handed opening knife strives to be a fixed blade when open and a folder in your pocket. If one frequently encounters the need for one-handed opening knives in work, why not attach a suitable fixed blade to the ladder or toss one in the tool box? That argument does not hold up.

Because getting a fixed blade back into the sheath one handed is FAR more difficult than closing a folder and clipping it into my pocket. Worst case scenario I can even just drop the closed folder into my pocket and not clip it at all. With a fixed blade I've got an edge that I need to careful slip into the sheath which usually means I need to at least be able to see the opening of the sheath or even use two hands to put it away. I've tried to feel around and do this one handed and it's way too cumbersome just standing in my living room let alone doing it in a hurry while under stress.

[TomAiello]

I am more interested in one hand closing than one handed opening, although both are important.

The weakness of a fixed blade in many situations is the difficulty of re-sheathing. I can close (for example) my Manix 2 much more easily than I can re-sheath a fixed blade. Most importantly, I can close the Manix without diverting my primary focus from the task at hand. Sheathing a fixed blade usually requires that I make visual contact with the sheath and focus on it while I put the knife back into it, to avoid the possibility of stabbing myself. Closing the Manix does not require this. Clipping the Manix to my pocket _also_ does not require this, because it is closed, so I can push and slide it around to clip it in place with no risk of stabbing or cutting myself. This capability is quite important to me, and decreases the chance that I make a critical error at a bad moment. Genuinely 'one handed' situations often lend themselves better to a folding knife than a fixed blade, for this reason.

Edit. I see that I just basically replicated Evil D's post. So if you prefer, just view this post as a +1 to what he said.

[VooDooChild]

Tying a fixed blade to a ladder would be dangerous and not work very well.

Like I said earlier, a fixed blade can work just fine for one handed use, but its not as convenient to carry.

If I want one handed use, and the convenience of carrying a folder then the modern designs are working really well. From where I sit its your argument that doesnt hold up.

Theres a reason nobody uses a slipjoint as a dive knife.

Edit:
In a vacuum, if all we are concerned with is making a cut, then yes a slip joint is probably all you need and a lot of the modern designs dont change that.

It is the stuff before and after the cut where the difference is.

A sports car and a truck can both get groceries, but only one hauls plywood.

[PeaceInOurTime]

I really appreciate one handed operation. Being able to "wave" open a knife from the pocket is even better. Pocket clips in whatever position I want? Different locks? Blade steels intended for different applications? Yes, please :) . These are things I want and benefit from. Not sure how they are not innovation.

I'm not sure what other areas of innovation can be expounded on with knives. Spyderco and other great knife makers will let us know as time goes on. We also get alot of ideas from people on these forums.

I'm also curious what new ideas are being withheld. Lightsabers? Separating matter with our minds? :p

I guess I don't understand what the issue is.

[VooDooChild]

...
Because getting a fixed blade back into the sheath one handed is FAR more difficult than closing a folder and clipping it into my pocket....

Moras setup works really well from a working perspective, but it seems like they designed their sheaths specifically for that. Most other fixed blade sheaths do not work as well for resheathing.

[Evil D]

...
Because getting a fixed blade back into the sheath one handed is FAR more difficult than closing a folder and clipping it into my pocket....

Moras setup works really well from a working perspective, but it seems like they designed their sheaths specifically for that. Most other fixed blade sheaths do not work as well for resheathing.

Hmm.... I'll look into that. Eventually I want to have made or make my own kydex sheath for my Street Beat and see if I can work out a way to safely sheath it "blind". I'm thinking of how competition pistols have a mag well..

[Pokey]

Really how much can a designer change on a folding knife?

Blade: Length, shape, color or material.
Method of opening: Nail nick, thumb studs, some sort of thumb hole, auto, flipper, spring assist, or nothing at all, (just pull on the blade)
Handle: Shape, material for scales, size, color, or none at all. (just a frame).
Lock: Liner, frame, Compression, or nothing at all. (slip joint)

As far as I can tell once you've mixed and matched all the variables above, that's it, there's nothing new under the sun until someone invents a new way to do the above.