Michael Janich wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:02 amHey, All:
According to the AKTI website:
Federal Laws Regarding Knives
The Federal Switchblade Act – is the only federal knife law other than laws about knives in federal facilities. The 2009 Amendment clarified assisted-opening knives are not illegal switchblades.
Many knife companies, like Boker, import true daggers into the US. One prominent example is the Applegate-Fairbairn Dagger.
Although importing and manufacturing daggers is not a problem, many state laws prohibit the carry of dirks and daggers and fail to define those terms well, so the carry of a double-edged knife would definitely be risky if not outright illegal in many areas. Manufacturing something that can't be carried widely would make the knife more of a collector's piece than a usable tool.
The real question, in my opinion, is what is the function of the ring? It is often claimed that the ring of a karambit or SOCP dagger is faster on the draw than a conventional handle--until you actually try it. Putting your index finger in a hole is a fine motor skill. Grabbing something with your entire hand is much more of a gross motor skill and much better suited to high-stress situations.
From a martial arts perspective, the Chinese had ringed daggers centuries ago. The ring allowed them to be spun on the index finger just like a karambit. Large daggers with significant weight could produce long-range cuts that made some sense, but only as a martial arts weapon. With a smaller knife suitable for modern self-defense carry, spinning cuts don't do much. The extended "pull" cuts with a karambit only work if the blade has a pronounced hook. With a straight-bladed dagger design, these cuts have little or no effect.
The only plausible reason I have found for rings is deep concealment--like a law enforcement officer keeping a weapon-retention knife concealed behind his mag pouches to avoid having a bad guy access it. Even then, the ring his difficult to index and there are better options.
Takuan, I was about to correct you when I clicked through to your link and then read the Oxford dictionary definition of Dirk.Takuan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:11 pmAKTI has some interesting information about the definitions of "dirk" and "dagger": https://www.akti.org/resources/akti-app ... ns/#dagger. Generally, if it looks "stabby" and it's double-edged, then it's either a dagger (if the blade is long) or a dirk (if the blade is short and/or worn with your kilt).
I have a double-edged knife just like the Klein in your post. Due to knife laws, I only wield it when doing HVAC work. It’s intended for cutting flexible insulated duct and related materials. Mostly it sleeps, because my FFG SE Caribbean and Endela cut the stuff even better.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:45 amIf the ergonomics are such that it feels the same in your hand when using both edges (meaning, not shaped like a Swick) then it would be an interesting knife, sort of Spyderco's take on a double edged gardening knife (Hori-Hori) but with a little self defense potential mixed in with the ring.
Unfortunately knives like this (double edged) fall into some knife laws and would be hard to sell and illegal to carry in a lot of areas.
I guess you could have both edges, but I feel it could be so much more with the other attributes.
Bottom line: you want a LC200N “SOCP type” knife, made by Spyderco.Dazen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:50 pmI guess you could have both edges, but I feel it could be so much more with the other attributes.
This is kind of what I was thinking. I’m not the master of ergos, I’ll leave that to the professionals.
Hey, Rangefinder:rangefinder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:35 pmI don't know about drawing or spinning the knife. My understanding is the end ring is for knife retention.
There are small "bird & trout" knives that have an end ring. You put your pinky through the ring and can let the knife fall free when you need to use the fingers on the knife hand for something. (e.g., you're attaching a fly or lure and you need to tie a knot, then you'll bring the knife back up to trim off the extra line.) This kind of knife has been around for about a century, so it's not a new design.
In the case of the SOCP dagger, the ring usually goes over the index finger and the handle is flat enough to fit between your hand and the gun grip. The theory is that if you're in a grappling situation where it's not practical to deploy a gun, you use the knife to "encourage" the attacker to break contact, then you can draw the gun without having to sheath or drop the knife. (See picture about halfway down this page: https://soldiersystems.net/2013/10/29/b ... cp-dagger/)