Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

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Buddafucco
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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Buddafucco » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:46 pm


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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby RamZar » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm

Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.
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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby dj moonbat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:03 pm

RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.
I’m pretty sure the blade length includes the place where the tang is exposed above the pivot. Because if the cutting edge is 2.83, there’s nowhere else that quarter inch could be. I’ll admit I don’t know what the rule is in my jurisdiction, but I don’t think that really counts as exposed blade.

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby RamZar » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:12 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:03 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.
I’m pretty sure the blade length includes the place where the tang is exposed above the pivot. Because if the cutting edge is 2.83, there’s nowhere else that quarter inch could be. I’ll admit I don’t know what the rule is in my jurisdiction, but I don’t think that really counts as exposed blade.

The industry standard for blade length is by the American Knife and Tool Institute:

“Where a statute, regulation or ordinance refers to knife blade length, the measurement shall be the straight line extending from the tip of the blade to the forward-most aspect of the hilt or handle.”

Image
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Evil D » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm

RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.

If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby dj moonbat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:02 pm

RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:12 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:03 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.
I’m pretty sure the blade length includes the place where the tang is exposed above the pivot. Because if the cutting edge is 2.83, there’s nowhere else that quarter inch could be. I’ll admit I don’t know what the rule is in my jurisdiction, but I don’t think that really counts as exposed blade.

The industry standard for blade length is by the American Knife and Tool Institute:

“Where a statute, regulation or ordinance refers to knife blade length, the measurement shall be the straight line extending from the tip of the blade to the forward-most aspect of the hilt or handle.”

Image
There’s no way that tiny little ricasso at the front is a quarter inch, though. Is there?

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby dj moonbat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.

If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
Manually, on a coarse whetstone, one could probably grind off .08” in just a few minutes. Still it would have been nice to have somebody do it with a belt sander at the factory.

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Evil D » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:08 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.

If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
Manually, on a coarse whetstone, one could probably grind off .08” in just a few minutes. Still it would have been nice to have somebody do it with a belt sander at the factory.


It works both ways, I'm happy to get every last little bit of edge I can get. I'm just saying things like this are so trivial and simple to fix. I don't think I own a single knife that didn't have some quirk that I had to tweak to better suit me.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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RamZar
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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby RamZar » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:17 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:08 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.

If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
Manually, on a coarse whetstone, one could probably grind off .08” in just a few minutes. Still it would have been nice to have somebody do it with a belt sander at the factory.


It works both ways, I'm happy to get every last little bit of edge I can get. I'm just saying things like this are so trivial and simple to fix. I don't think I own a single knife that didn't have some quirk that I had to tweak to better suit me.

All that is fine except that when somebody asks me to recommend a folder to legally carry in Los Angeles I’m not going to say buy yourself a Spyderco Rockjumber and then grind one tenth of an inch from the tip.
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby dj moonbat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:08 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm
RamZar wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Wish the blade length was 2.99” and not 3.08” to make it legal in more jurisdictions.

Looks like both the PlainEdge and SpyderEdge models should be showing up at dealers very soon.

If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
Manually, on a coarse whetstone, one could probably grind off .08” in just a few minutes. Still it would have been nice to have somebody do it with a belt sander at the factory.


It works both ways, I'm happy to get every last little bit of edge I can get. I'm just saying things like this are so trivial and simple to fix. I don't think I own a single knife that didn't have some quirk that I had to tweak to better suit me.
But see, if you’re going to go over three inches, you’re now presumably safe to go as high as 3.5. So the Rockjumper (or any knife that’s right over a legal limit) is short-changing you, the guy who wants all the edge he can get, also.

Don’t get me wrong: I live in Los Angeles and I am buying one. But these knives that are tiny fractions over a common limit are missed opportunities.

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Michael Janich » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:56 am

Hey, All:

Since I do the tech specs for Spyderco knives, I thought I'd chime in and answer the question.

The 3.08 is measured from the tip of the blade back toward the near edge of the front of the handle, adjacent to the heel of the blade. The edge length is the actual sharpened edge, which does not always extend to the shoulders of the plunge grind--especially on serrated edges that start with a deep scallop.

I try as much as possible to follow the industry standard as explained on the AKTI website, but that's not always possible. The challenge comes with knives with angled shoulders, where the bevels meet the ricasso. When the shoulders are angled, the cutting edge extends further toward the butt of the knife than the distance from the blade point to the nearest edge of the handle. Functionally, the edge length becomes longer than the blade length when measured in a straight line per the industry standard. When that happens, I make the blade length equal the edge length. I feel that is the most accurate representation of the specs for the knife.

As far as legality goes, I am a huge fan of shortening blades to meet the requirements of specific jurisdictions. When I carried an Endura here in Colorado (because it had a matching trainer), I shortened it to sub-3.5 inches and created the "Jandura" to be legally compliant. When I helped create the Kahr Arms Delica, it was based on Delicas that I had been grinding down for my students who worked in federal buildings or lived in Boston and Chicago where 2.5 inches was the max blade length allowed.

Most knife designs are sized to express the concept as the designer intended. Legal considerations are usually a secondary concern. Personally, I design with blade length as a primary design element, but that's just me.

Having "bobbed" a few hundred knives and fixed lots of broken blade tips over the years, I can say from experience that removing a tenth of an inch from the tip of a flat-ground VG-10 blade is not difficult and can be accomplished with a single sheet of 220-grit sandpaper in a few minutes. At the same time, I completely respect a customer's decision not to buy a particular product because it is not a turnkey solution to your needs. If you're looking for the "next-best thing" to a RockJumper with a sub-3-inch blade, the Delica 4 Wharncliffe is a great choice. I carry a SpyderEdge version of it every day as my primary utility knife and love it.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:20 am

dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:08 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:17 pm



If you like the model enough just grind the spine/tip down a bit until it's legal. Problem solved.
Manually, on a coarse whetstone, one could probably grind off .08” in just a few minutes. Still it would have been nice to have somebody do it with a belt sander at the factory.


It works both ways, I'm happy to get every last little bit of edge I can get. I'm just saying things like this are so trivial and simple to fix. I don't think I own a single knife that didn't have some quirk that I had to tweak to better suit me.
But see, if you’re going to go over three inches, you’re now presumably safe to go as high as 3.5. So the Rockjumper (or any knife that’s right over a legal limit) is short-changing you, the guy who wants all the edge he can get, also.

Don’t get me wrong: I live in Los Angeles and I am buying one. But these knives that are tiny fractions over a common limit are missed opportunities.
I believe that people who follow every rule and restriction to the tee, are short-changing themselves.

I'm not saying be like me, the guy who used his Caribbean to open a donut box in Rochester, NY, infront of a police officer...
(He complimented my "Spyderco". I expressed my gratitude for his service and and offered him a donut.)

But, to not purchase a knife that has a 3.08" blade because "they" said you can only have a 3" one...

**** off outta here with that malarkey! :D

There are real criminals they should be worrying about.

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:44 am

Buddafucco wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:46 pm
Spyderco.com in stk MSRP
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C254BK/1882


I went ahead and ordered from SFO. It ended up being a $14 difference between my usual online vendors and I figured I'll maybe get some cool stickers for that extra bit of money and I got sick of Blade HQ saying they're in stock only for it to be a pre-order.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby dj moonbat » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:56 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:44 am
Buddafucco wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:46 pm
Spyderco.com in stk MSRP
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C254BK/1882


I went ahead and ordered from SFO. It ended up being a $14 difference between my usual online vendors and I figured I'll maybe get some cool stickers for that extra bit of money and I got sick of Blade HQ saying they're in stock only for it to be a pre-order.
Genius! And they send stickers?

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:59 am

dj moonbat wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:56 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:44 am
Buddafucco wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:46 pm
Spyderco.com in stk MSRP
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C254BK/1882


I went ahead and ordered from SFO. It ended up being a $14 difference between my usual online vendors and I figured I'll maybe get some cool stickers for that extra bit of money and I got sick of Blade HQ saying they're in stock only for it to be a pre-order.
Genius! And they send stickers?


Not all the time but usually. I think I've gotten a few with most of my orders.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby grubetown » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:43 am

I ordered a RockJumper SE (my first SpyderEdge), Lefty PM2 and Sharpmaker from the SFO :)

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby prndltech » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:53 am

grubetown wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:43 am
I ordered a RockJumper SE (my first SpyderEdge), Lefty PM2 and Sharpmaker from the SFO :)
Oh boy... well, you’re ready for just about anything!
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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby sal » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:42 am

Thanx Mike,

I must confess that, like Mike, I take into consideration legality of blade length in almost every model I design. In this design, I threw all of that out of the window. My focus was more on the handle. I wanted a generous handle size to serve a large hand. I wanted to bring the edge to the handle on a back-lock design. I wanted to make the handle more neutral than the Delica, more like the Stretch.

The Rock-Jumper is a larger knife than the Delica. If you put the Delica Warnie and the Rock-Jumper Warnie side by side, this is obvious. I left off controversial issues like jimping. I used a large lanyard hole for a thicker line. I put a very functional blade length in a thicker wider blade. The Rock-Jumper carries larger than the Delica. If you compare the edge or the Delica to the Rock-Jumper kick to kick, you will see that the Rock-Jumper edge is longer than the Delica.

I have also been very transparent on the design philosophy of this model. I've carried the G-10 prototype and the FRN prototype quite a bit and now I'm waiting for ELU response. We also have a "Leaf" blade version in-the-works.

sal

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:57 am

sal wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:42 am
I have also been very transparent on the design philosophy of this model. I've carried the G-10 prototype and the FRN prototype quite a bit and now I'm waiting for ELU response. We also have a "Leaf" blade version in-the-works.

sal


Just as soon as it gets here :D

I can't give you any actual climbing feedback though ;)
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Please Pardon the shameful sales pitch - Rock Jumper

Postby Wartstein » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:05 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:42 am
Thanx Mike,

I must confess that, like Mike, I take into consideration legality of blade length in almost every model I design. In this design, I threw all of that out of the window. My focus was more on the handle. I wanted a generous handle size to serve a large hand. I wanted to bring the edge to the handle on a back-lock design. I wanted to make the handle more neutral than the Delica, more like the Stretch.

The Rock-Jumper is a larger knife than the Delica. If you put the Delica Warnie and the Rock-Jumper Warnie side by side, this is obvious. I left off controversial issues like jimping. I used a large lanyard hole for a thicker line. I put a very functional blade length in a thicker wider blade. The Rock-Jumper carries larger than the Delica. If you compare the edge or the Delica to the Rock-Jumper kick to kick, you will see that the Rock-Jumper edge is longer than the Delica.

I have also been very transparent on the design philosophy of this model. I've carried the G-10 prototype and the FRN prototype quite a bit and now I'm waiting for ELU response. We also have a "Leaf" blade version in-the-works.

sal

I know, in my case talk is cheap, since where I live there are no legal limits for blade length at all. And I certainly feel with all of you who live in areas with crazy restrictions!

Still: I think Sal did the most perfect job here, considering the philosophy behind and purpose of the RockJumper:

- I mean, given a generously sized handle plus an edge all the way to that handle is the goal here:
+ So the handle size has to be rather long/large
+ One main reason WHY most people want an edge all the way to the handle is to maximize the amount of usable cutting edge
+ So: Extend the edge all the way to the handle, but then SHORTEN the blade a lot (which would cost edge length again) would have made no sense imho

- Also, in that particular size category for me every mm of cutting edge I can get I´ll gladly take.

- Anyway, being a climber I am looking very much forward to this knife! I am sure it will be a perfect climbing and utility blade!!! :) (for me of course in SE)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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