Some technical help please

[Cambertree]

Hey Spydieheads,

I have a couple of little things I’d like to enlist your help with, please.

As some of you probably know, I was lucky to find a Southfork for a good price recently and have very much been enjoying using and sharpening it.

One thing which needs to be addressed though, is the sheath is a little loose around the neck area, and the knife rattles in it when shaken.

I can’t have that rattle when I take it hunting.

I think the original owner might have tried to heat it and loosen it a little, as the knife is quite tight to release from the sheath, even now.

The sheath is a boltaron taco style setup.

So my question is: What is the best way to tighten up the boltaron sheath again?

I’ve seen those press rigs knifemakers use for forming heated kydex sheaths to the shape of their custom knives.

I understand that boltaron has slightly different properties to kydex, and is reputedly more difficult to work with.

Also, recently I chipped one of my brown Sharpmaker rods about of a third of the way down. I bought some new rods, but I’m thinking of breaking the chipped rod into two pieces at the site of the chip, so I can use the pieces held between thumb and forefinger as a handy portable pocket sharpener.

I have a UF rod that broke after being dropped, and the pieces are very useful, and probably get used even more than the intact UF rods do in the Sharpmaker.

Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure I can break the ceramic rod cleanly at the point I want?

Thanks for any input. :)

[Sumdumguy]

Hey Spydieheads,

I have a couple of little things I’d like to enlist your help with, please.

As some of you probably know, I was lucky to find a Southfork for a good price recently and have very much been enjoying using and sharpening it.

One thing which needs to be addressed though, is the sheath is a little loose around the neck area, and the knife rattles in it when shaken.

I can’t have that rattle when I take it hunting.

I think the original owner might have tried to heat it and loosen it a little, as the knife is quite tight to release from the sheath, even now.

The sheath is a boltaron taco style setup.

So my question is: What is the best way to tighten up the boltaron sheath again?

I’ve seen those press rigs knifemakers use for forming heated kydex sheaths to the shape of their custom knives.

I understand that boltaron has slightly different properties to kydex, and is reputedly more difficult to work with.

Also, recently I chipped one of my brown Sharpmaker rods about of a third of the way down. I bought some new rods, but I’m thinking of breaking the chipped rod into two pieces at the site of the chip, so I can use the pieces held between thumb and forefinger as a handy portable pocket sharpener.

I have a UF rod that broke after being dropped, and the pieces are very useful, and probably get used even more than the intact UF rods do in the Sharpmaker.

Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure I can break the ceramic rod cleanly at the point I want?

Thanks for any input. :)

I can't speak for the sheath. But, if you can use something to get a good score on the UF stone, it should break cleanly along the score line.

[Cambertree]

I can't speak for the sheath. But, if you can use something to get a good score on the UF stone, it should break cleanly along the score line.

Thanks SDG. :)

I was thinking along the same lines, but was wondering what to use, as I believe the ceramic rods rate about a 9 on the Mohs scale.

Diamond Dremel cutoff wheel maybe? I suppose it might chew up the wheel, but I guess that’s part of the cost?

[JonLeBlanc]

So the knife is rattling in the sheath at the neck? Have you thought of maybe inserting some type of little padding, like maybe a gluing a small strip of soft foam to the inside of the spine side of the sheath? Just to keep it from rattling around in there.

[Cambertree]

So the knife is rattling in the sheath at the neck? Have you thought of maybe inserting some type of little padding, like maybe a gluing a small strip of soft foam to the inside of the spine side of the sheath? Just to keep it from rattling around in there.

Hi Jon,

Thanks, I actually hadn’t thought of that. :)

I’m thinking that the tightness of the drawing and resheathing action might wear heavily or tear out anything glued inside the sheath. But perhaps a piece of thin leather might work?

As boltaron is a thermoplastic, I was wondering if I could heat it, say with a heat gun or hair dryer and press it back, maybe sandwiched between some soft material, so it’s tightly formed over the contours of the knife at the neck area again.

I just want to make sure I get it right the first time, regarding what level of heat and what material to use to press it between, to retighten it.

There’s a fair bit of info out there on kydex, but boltaron is a little different, I think.

[Sumdumguy]

I can't speak for the sheath. But, if you can use something to get a good score on the UF stone, it should break cleanly along the score line.

Thanks SDG. :)

I was thinking along the same lines, but was wondering what to use, as I believe the ceramic rods rate about a 9 on the Mohs scale.

Diamond Dremel cutoff wheel maybe? I suppose it might chew up the wheel, but I guess that’s part of the cost?

You shouldn't need that much oomph. Just a good score with something like a diamond masonry bit and a tap on the counter should do it. No powertools should be required.

[Cambertree]

I can't speak for the sheath. But, if you can use something to get a good score on the UF stone, it should break cleanly along the score line.

Thanks SDG. :)

I was thinking along the same lines, but was wondering what to use, as I believe the ceramic rods rate about a 9 on the Mohs scale.

Diamond Dremel cutoff wheel maybe? I suppose it might chew up the wheel, but I guess that’s part of the cost?

You shouldn't need that much oomph. Just a good score with something like a diamond masonry bit and a tap on the counter should do it. No powertools should be required.

Great, thanks again, SDG. :)

I’ll give it a go when I get a spare minute over the next couple of days.

I bought two new replacement brown rods, so the wear would be even on both of them.

So I will have one old unblemished, but worn full length rod that I can use like a handheld honing steel, and the chipped one, which will hopefully break into two slightly different size pocket stones.

Do you have a view on whether to tap it against the notched side, or the other side to get the cleanest break?

[Sumdumguy]

I can't speak for the sheath. But, if you can use something to get a good score on the UF stone, it should break cleanly along the score line.

Thanks SDG. :)

I was thinking along the same lines, but was wondering what to use, as I believe the ceramic rods rate about a 9 on the Mohs scale.

Diamond Dremel cutoff wheel maybe? I suppose it might chew up the wheel, but I guess that’s part of the cost?

You shouldn't need that much oomph. Just a good score with something like a diamond masonry bit and a tap on the counter should do it. No powertools should be required.

Great, thanks again, SDG. :)

I’ll give it a go when I get a spare minute over the next couple of days.

I bought two new replacement brown rods, so the wear would be even on both of them.

So I will have one old unblemished, but worn full length rod that I can use like a handheld honing steel, and the chipped one, which will hopefully break into two slightly different size pocket stones.

Do you have a view on whether to tap it against the notched side, or the other side to get the cleanest break?

I believe you would tap the side opposite the score line. I would make two scores and then tap the unscored side. That would probably give the cleanest break

Let me know how it works out for you.

[Cambertree]

I believe you would tap the side opposite the score line. I would make two scores and then tap the unscored side. That would probably give the cleanest break

Let me know how it works out for you.

Excellent, I appreciate your help, my friend, and I’ll certainly update the thread with how it goes. :)

[Phil Wilson]

HI Cambertree, Your idea of using a heat gun ( much hotter than a hair dryer) will work. It is best to focus the heat on the area you want to change. Use a rectangle piece of masonite or like that and drill a half inch hole in it. Blow the hot air through the hole so that you are heating a small area and move it around slowly. You will probably have to heat both sides. You will have to play with this till you get what you want on retention and grip on the blade. Enjoy the South Fork Phil

[Pancake]

Enjoy the South Fork Phil

Hello mister Wilson!
We need more Southfork in Spyderco line, or some other model of yours.

[Naperville]

If you are heating that Boltaron sheath to where it can deform, I might wear gloves to reshape it. It might be pretty hot.

[RustyIron]

So my question is: What is the best way to tighten up the boltaron sheath again?

My experience is with kydex, not boltaron, so your milage might vary. I wouldn't think by much, though.

Get yourself a stick with a rounded end that you'll use to push and reshape the heated plastic. I would stick with a hair dryer at first. It will get plenty hot, but not as hot as a heat gun. You CAN use a heat gun, but you'll have to keep a closer eye on the surface to avoid bubbling or discoloration. I'd dry the hair dryer first, and reserve the heat gun for Plan B.

Get the hair dryer CLOSE to the area you want to reshape. Don't overthink it. The material won't just melt into a blob on the floor as if you were welding pot metal. It will become pliable long before you risk damage. Poke at it with the stick, and you'll feel the point at which it begins to deform. Poke and shape according to your plan.

You'll have to decide for yourself whether to leave the knife in the sheath as you heat it, or to insert the knife after the plastic is hot enough. But you'll definitely want the knife in the sheath as you're reshaping the plastic, so you get a perfect fit.

[Tucson Tom]

Does anyone have any suggestions to ensure I can break the ceramic rod cleanly at the point I want?

Thanks for any input. :)

Diamond Saw. I've got one right here with an 8 inch blade to cut rocks with.

Next time you are in Tucson, Arizona, bring it by and I'll saw it for you. Or find someone who does lapidary work
and have them do it for you.

No doubt you could saw it part way and snap it, but once you get going, you may as well just saw it through.

[Cambertree]

HI Cambertree, Your idea of using a heat gun ( much hotter than a hair dryer) will work. It is best to focus the heat on the area you want to change. Use a rectangle piece of masonite or like that and drill a half inch hole in it. Blow the hot air through the hole so that you are heating a small area and move it around slowly. You will probably have to heat both sides. You will have to play with this till you get what you want on retention and grip on the blade. Enjoy the South Fork Phil

Thanks very much for the expert advice, Phil, I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

Oh I certainly do enjoy this knife. :) :cool:

As we can’t head out hunting at the moment in Victoria, the state in Australia I live in, I’ve been using the knife in the kitchen to get a feel for it. It performs very well in that role. I’ve thinned it out behind the edge a couple of times, and it’s an excellent slicer, as well as being very comfortable and intuitive in its handling.

I’m looking forward to trying it out on field dressing Sambar deer, when the lockdown restrictions ease.

I found an interesting reference on Spydiewiki the other day, which referred to a fillet knife collaboration of yours which didn’t end up making it into production. That’s definitely a knife model I’d be very keen to see Spyderco put out.

[Cambertree]

If you are heating that Boltaron sheath to where it can deform, I might wear gloves to reshape it. It might be pretty hot.

Thanks Naperville, I’ll certainly follow that advice. :)

My experience is with kydex, not boltaron, so your milage might vary. I wouldn't think by much, though.

Get yourself a stick with a rounded end that you'll use to push and reshape the heated plastic. I would stick with a hair dryer at first. It will get plenty hot, but not as hot as a heat gun. You CAN use a heat gun, but you'll have to keep a closer eye on the surface to avoid bubbling or discoloration. I'd dry the hair dryer first, and reserve the heat gun for Plan B.

Get the hair dryer CLOSE to the area you want to reshape. Don't overthink it. The material won't just melt into a blob on the floor as if you were welding pot metal. It will become pliable long before you risk damage. Poke at it with the stick, and you'll feel the point at which it begins to deform. Poke and shape according to your plan.

You'll have to decide for yourself whether to leave the knife in the sheath as you heat it, or to insert the knife after the plastic is hot enough. But you'll definitely want the knife in the sheath as you're reshaping the plastic, so you get a perfect fit.

I appreciate the comprehensive advice Rusty Iron. :)

Yes, I’m thinking I’ll leave the knife in the sheath while heating it (obviously being careful with the heat application). I’m guessing I could also use two firmish pieces of foam to tightly sandwich the softened sheath neck between, so it forms snugly back around the knife?

Diamond Saw. I've got one right here with an 8 inch blade to cut rocks with.

Next time you are in Tucson, Arizona, bring it by and I'll saw it for you. Or find someone who does lapidary work
and have them do it for you.

No doubt you could saw it part way and snap it, but once you get going, you may as well just saw it through.

Thanks Tom, great advice, and thanks for the generous offer. :)

I think there’s actually a gemstone polishing club which meets somewhere nearby, although I guess they’re not actively meeting at the moment, with the current Covid shutdown in our state.

I have a feeling it may be a while before international long haul flights from Australia start up again, my friend, but Arizona Is definitely one of the places I want to visit, when I can make it to the US! :)

I’ll update the thread with my results soon.

[Bill1170]

Cotton towel (terry cloth) material might be better than foam for pressing on the boltaron while it is hot. The cotton won’t melt or smell nasty when it gets hot from the contact.

[skeeg11]

I found an interesting reference on Spydiewiki the other day, which referred to a fillet knife collaboration of yours which didn’t end up making it into production. That’s definitely a knife model I’d be very keen to see Spyderco put out.

Holey Moley!!! That would be a grail knife for me. I would resort to begging to get one in hand.

[Cambertree]

Cotton towel (terry cloth) material might be better than foam for pressing on the boltaron while it is hot. The cotton won’t melt or smell nasty when it gets hot from the contact.

Brilliant, thanks Bill. :)

I feel much better equipped to make the sheath adjustment and brown rod ‘pocket sharpening stones’ now, with all of this excellent advice from everyone.

We currently have retail stores shut down, and my work is ironically much busier during the lockdowns we’ve had, but I’ll start putting together the things I need and update the thread when I’ve sorted out the sheath tightening and Sharpmaker rod.

Holey Moley!!! That would be a grail knife for me. I would resort to begging to get one in hand.

Here’s those references, if anyone’s interested.

Forum thread from way back in 2003:

viewtopic.php?t=7437

Another from 2014:

viewtopic.php?t=62509

And I think there may have been mentions more recently about a fillet knife IIRC.

They go some way to explaining what seems to be a curious omission in Spyderco’s fixed blade lineup.

And the Spydiewiki article:

http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?tit ... son_Fillet

[skeeg11]

Holey Moley!!! That would be a grail knife for me. I would resort to begging to get one in hand.

Here’s those references, if anyone’s interested.

Forum thread from way back in 2003:

viewtopic.php?t=7437

Another from 2014:

viewtopic.php?t=62509

And I think there may have been mentions more recently about a fillet knife IIRC.

They go some way to explaining what seems to be a curious omission in Spyderco’s fixed blade lineup.

And the Spydiewiki article:

http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?tit ... son_Fillet

Well golly gee coitus interruptus. That is majorly and heartbreakingly frustrating. Would definitely have found a way to finagle some extra premium dollars for those. As for the reasons the project was abandoned only Sal knows. Still, if an outsider is allowed the luxury of speculation, I would imagine that the Phil Wilson distal taper and tip flex might be of concern to a manufacturer from a warranty standpoint. As fine a knife as the Southfork is, I think the lack of a finer distal taper did impact its sales.