I think I caught SE fever

[Wartstein]

.....
Don't let anyone influence your opinion of the Spyderedge until you actually put one to hard use.

I think everyone who catches the Spyderedge bug has this though!

I can't see myself buying anything but SE models for the time being. I have nice expensive PE knives but I constantly find myself choosing the SE Endela over them...

@ JDSpydo: Very true. I also have a feeling that some who still think the spyderedge is inferior to PE never actually really tried one, at best in ffg and in several tasks

@ Sonorum: That´s honestly a con of my relatively new love for SE: I strongly hesitate to use or buy models I really like otherwise, just cause they don´t come in SE.
I too would always carry the Endela SE from a practical point of view, only downside is the relatively short (PM2-ish) cutting edge.
Hence my by far biggest wish concerning knives: Endura regular (not wharnie) in ffg SE.... : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87153

[Sonorum]

.....
Don't let anyone influence your opinion of the Spyderedge until you actually put one to hard use.

I think everyone who catches the Spyderedge bug has this though!

I can't see myself buying anything but SE models for the time being. I have nice expensive PE knives but I constantly find myself choosing the SE Endela over them...

@ JDSpydo: Very true. I also have a feeling that some who still think the spyderedge is inferior to PE never actually really tried one, at best in ffg and in several tasks

@ Sonorum: That´s honestly a con of my relatively new love for SE: I strongly hesitate to use or buy models I really like otherwise, just cause they don´t come in SE.
I too would always carry the Endela SE from a practical point of view, only downside is the relatively short (PM2-ish) cutting edge.
Hence my by far biggest wish concerning knives: Endura regular (not wharnie) in ffg SE.... : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87153

Next up has to be the Caribbean for me. I can't help but want a full flat serrated knife that's a bit more high end.

@Wartstein, why not a wharncliffe Endura?

[Wartstein]

...
I can't see myself buying anything but SE models for the time being. I have nice expensive PE knives but I constantly find myself choosing the SE Endela over them...

...
@ Sonorum: That´s honestly a con of my relatively new love for SE: I strongly hesitate to use or buy models I really like otherwise, just cause they don´t come in SE.
I too would always carry the Endela SE from a practical point of view, only downside is the relatively short (PM2-ish) cutting edge.
Hence my by far biggest wish concerning knives: Endura regular (not wharnie) in ffg SE.... : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87153

Next up has to be the Caribbean for me. I can't help but want a full flat serrated knife that's a bit more high end.

@Wartstein, why not a wharncliffe Endura?

I am sure the wharncliff SE Endura is a phenomenal knife.

But: In my main EDC I´d prefer to have the more centered and a bit more pronounced tip of the "regular" Endura, as well as the belly towards the tip.
Also the a bit less wide profile when closed - and it just looks better imho.

If it was any other knife, I guess I´d still go with the wharnie SE if it was the only ffg option at the moment.
But the "regular" Endura ffg SE (or alternatively Pac Salt 2 ffg SE) would most likely end the search for my perfect EDC knife, since, well, it would just be perfect for me. And so I don´t want something that is just almost perfect as the wharnie would be.

I still hope Sal will reply in the other thread if there are any plans for such a model. If not, I´ll get the wharnie Endura ffg SE eventually,

[JustinB]

I certainly hope we see an SE Endura coming along soon as well Wart!

[wrdwrght]

The problem with fevers is they’re not normal.

[TheGiant80]

...I haven't heard any actual confirmation I have a gut feeling we'll see a larger version of the Rock Jumper eventually too.

Quit playing games with my heart!

But yeah, an XL Rock Jumper might be the most perfect FRN Spydie I can think of..

[aicolainen]

All these threads about SE are playing tricks with my mind.

Just bought a Salt 2 PE for SAR duty, and I absolutely, and quite surprisingly, have fallen in love the no nonsense practical approach of that knife design. So with one foot in the Seki FRN pond, I guess it's only a natural progression to embrace SE.

I think I'll start it off with a EDC knife like Manbug or Ladybug with SE.
As for a larger size alternative, I'm quite curious to try the Rockjumper because of the handle design, but that's really pushing my boundaries as it will also be my first wharnie.

But why stop there? In this state of mind, scope creep is an inevitable part of the game, so I'm also contemplating a fixed blade Salt as well as the 4.5" utility knife with SE
The utility knife seems like a solid choice for outdoor/backpacking food prep if I can source a decent sheath for it. What direction I'm going with the Salt fixed blade is still undecided. A backup SAR knife on my backpack is a possibility, but not sure it's worth the weight penalty. Might be easier to make decisions once I have some SE experience.

[ladybug93]

i'm already a spyderedge advocate, but i just ordered a se ladybug salt hawkbill and se sheepsfoot caribbean yesterday in celebration of national knife day.

the se caribbean is like the synthesis of my three favorite models; the manix 2, yojimbo 2, and se pac salt. i may end up only carrying it instead of carrying one each in pe and se.

[Sonorum]

...
I can't see myself buying anything but SE models for the time being. I have nice expensive PE knives but I constantly find myself choosing the SE Endela over them...

...
@ Sonorum: That´s honestly a con of my relatively new love for SE: I strongly hesitate to use or buy models I really like otherwise, just cause they don´t come in SE.
I too would always carry the Endela SE from a practical point of view, only downside is the relatively short (PM2-ish) cutting edge.
Hence my by far biggest wish concerning knives: Endura regular (not wharnie) in ffg SE.... : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87153

Next up has to be the Caribbean for me. I can't help but want a full flat serrated knife that's a bit more high end.

@Wartstein, why not a wharncliffe Endura?

I am sure the wharncliff SE Endura is a phenomenal knife.

But: In my main EDC I´d prefer to have the more centered and a bit more pronounced tip of the "regular" Endura, as well as the belly towards the tip.
Also the a bit less wide profile when closed - and it just looks better imho.

If it was any other knife, I guess I´d still go with the wharnie SE if it was the only ffg option at the moment.
But the "regular" Endura ffg SE (or alternatively Pac Salt 2 ffg SE) would most likely end the search for my perfect EDC knife, since, well, it would just be perfect for me. And so I don´t want something that is just almost perfect as the wharnie would be.

I still hope Sal will reply in the other thread if there are any plans for such a model. If not, I´ll get the wharnie Endura ffg SE eventually,

Ok! What do you do that makes you prefer a centred tip? First me a hawkbill is a tad excessive for a solo edc but a wharncliffe works really good for me. Mostly packages, food, boxes and small stuff which benefits from the extreme tip control a wharncliffe gives you.

[JD Spydo]

The problem with fevers is they’re not normal.

There's truth in that statement. But I beseech you to tell me "What Is Normal About Spyderco"??? or their patented serrations either as far as that goes ???

But that's what sets the Great Spyder Factory apart as far as I'm concerned. They made a market on cutlery that totally deviates from "Normal">> Normal is boring I want better than Normal myself and I bet a lot of people on this forum are the same way

Spyderco's great serrated blades blow "Normal" out of the water >> performance wise for sure

[wrdwrght]

The problem with fevers is they’re not normal.

There's truth in that statement. But I beseech you to tell me "What Is Normal About Spyderco"??? or their patented serrations either as far as that goes ???

But that's what sets the Great Spyder Factory apart as far as I'm concerned. They made a market on cutlery that totally deviates from "Normal">> Normal is boring I want better than Normal myself and I bet a lot of people on this forum are the same way

Spyderco's great serrated blades blow "Normal" out of the water >> performance wise for sure

We don’t disagree that this is a place for deviants.

I’m happy to be one, having just added to my several SE hawkbills several other Spydies also with strange curves.

We might disagree that every Spydie is improved with a Spyderedge.

I have enough SE Spydies in different models (with others on my get-list) to understand the attraction. But, I think edges with low frequency/low amplitude curves, such as my new Ulize and Dodo, and incoming Kris, have their place. Their designers certainly did, and we, out of respect, should wonder why, as we explore their performance.

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

[Evil D]

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

That's exactly what's happening with the Yojimbo. Serrations can potentially snag clothing in a slashing attack and could yank the knife out of your hand, so the Yojimbo doesn't have them and I'm pretty sure that's based on Michael Janich's preference and techniques. The Civilian was designed basically to just harm someone as much as possible with as little training as possible. What's more interesting to me is how those two knives seem to have polar opposite philosophies regarding slashing attacks, with the Civilian having both serrations and a giant hook on the end it seems all but guaranteed to snag and slip out of your hand. Then again with a blade like the Civilian you may only need to land one hit on an attacker to be effective...so long as there's only one attacker.

[James Y]

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

That's exactly what's happening with the Yojimbo. Serrations can potentially snag clothing in a slashing attack and could yank the knife out of your hand, so the Yojimbo doesn't have them and I'm pretty sure that's based on Michael Janich's preference and techniques. The Civilian was designed basically to just harm someone as much as possible with as little training as possible. What's more interesting to me is how those two knives seem to have polar opposite philosophies regarding slashing attacks, with the Civilian having both serrations and a giant hook on the end it seems all but guaranteed to snag and slip out of your hand. Then again with a blade like the Civilian you may only need to land one hit on an attacker to be effective...so long as there's only one attacker.

I know next to nothing about knife combatives, but I find it interesting that both the Yojimbo and Civilian have extremely fine (one might say fragile) tips. With the Civilian in particular as a self-defense tool, I’d imagine the targeting would generally avoid clothed areas and go more for exposed flesh targets like the face, neck, hands/wrists/fingers, etc., and maybe the forearms, if the attacker isn’t wearing a long sleeved shirt or a jacket/hoodie. In such a scenario, it’s possible the Civilian would not be dislodged from one’s grip, in spite of being both hooked and serrated. I wouldn’t expect either knife’s blade tips to come out intact after being applied during a life-or-death struggle, with all the violent movement and probable torquing.

Jim

[wrdwrght]

It’s telling that the Matriarch, a Civilian derivative, is a self-defense knife for people (South African women, initially) without self-defense skills, whereas the Yojimbo answers as an MBC tool. I dare say the whys and wherefores of Martial Blade Concepts informed what kind of tool MBC needed.

Might we even say that the Yojimbo is a tool most effective with precise skills (thus not in need of snaggy serrations), while an SE Matriarch (and Civilian) in the desperately thrashing hand of a terrified victim will still do damage an assailant would notice? Not the best resort, just a last one.

[Kloeshuman]

I have a delica SE in ATS-55, picked it up a week ago but still have not carried it yet. Love the feel of the knife though

[JD Spydo]

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

That's exactly what's happening with the Yojimbo. Serrations can potentially snag clothing in a slashing attack and could yank the knife out of your hand, so the Yojimbo doesn't have them and I'm pretty sure that's based on Michael Janich's preference and techniques. The Civilian was designed basically to just harm someone as much as possible with as little training as possible. What's more interesting to me is how those two knives seem to have polar opposite philosophies regarding slashing attacks, with the Civilian having both serrations and a giant hook on the end it seems all but guaranteed to snag and slip out of your hand. Then again with a blade like the Civilian you may only need to land one hit on an attacker to be effective...so long as there's only one attacker.

David this point you make right here and what you two guys are talking about confirms to me that its how the serration patterns are designed. If there is nothing to snag up on then that problem is eliminated.

When Michael Janich makes the point that serrations tend to snag on clothing and would make your self defense attempts null & void. He's absolutely right when talking about the conventional Spyderedge we see on most of Spyderco's folders. Well I do believe that could be remedied with a different serration pattern. Take the serration pattern on most of Spyderco's kitchen knives which have a more rounded/wavy type pattern>> with that pattern there nothing to get snagged up on??? With no pointed spikes that problem I believe can be eliminated.

And I'm not at all in fundamental disagreement with Mr. Janich because he has probably forgotten more than I know about tactical knife uses. But my point is that not every serration pattern is equal. I do believe that a serration pattern can be designed that won't have that snagging problem. The conventional Spyderedge that has the "spikey, pointy" type serration is great for hard uses and for cutting fibrous materials>> but it most certainly is prone to snagging up on certain materials. I've never snagged up with anything using Spyderco's kitchen knives that have the rounded/wavy types of serration .

[Evil D]

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

That's exactly what's happening with the Yojimbo. Serrations can potentially snag clothing in a slashing attack and could yank the knife out of your hand, so the Yojimbo doesn't have them and I'm pretty sure that's based on Michael Janich's preference and techniques. The Civilian was designed basically to just harm someone as much as possible with as little training as possible. What's more interesting to me is how those two knives seem to have polar opposite philosophies regarding slashing attacks, with the Civilian having both serrations and a giant hook on the end it seems all but guaranteed to snag and slip out of your hand. Then again with a blade like the Civilian you may only need to land one hit on an attacker to be effective...so long as there's only one attacker.

David this point you make right here and what you two guys are talking about confirms to me that its how the serration patterns are designed. If there is nothing to snag up on then that problem is eliminated.

When Michael Janich makes the point that serrations tend to snag on clothing and would make your self defense attempts null & void. He's absolutely right when talking about the conventional Spyderedge we see on most of Spyderco's folders. Well I do believe that could be remedied with a different serration pattern. Take the serration pattern on most of Spyderco's kitchen knives which have a more rounded/wavy type pattern>> with that pattern there nothing to get snagged up on??? With no pointed spikes that problem I believe can be eliminated.

And I'm not at all in fundamental disagreement with Mr. Janich because he has probably forgotten more than I know about tactical knife uses. But my point is that not every serration pattern is equal. I do believe that a serration pattern can be designed that won't have that snagging problem. The conventional Spyderedge that has the "spikey, pointy" type serration is great for hard uses and for cutting fibrous materials>> but it most certainly is prone to snagging up on certain materials. I've never snagged up with anything using Spyderco's kitchen knives that have the rounded/wavy types of serration .

I'll have to get with my wife and find a big chunk of meat I can slash up that she can still cook afterwards lol. I feel pretty confident that the serrations on my Caribbean are not gonna snag anything.

[bearrowland]

I've put this to use trying all kinds of tasks, and I have to say I've caught the fever too! This edge will do anything I ask of it.

[Sonorum]

Odd, isn’t it, that the Civilian and the Yojimbo, each having self-defense their intent, do not both have an SE option. After all, other Spydie wharnies (my Atlantic and Assist, for example) are Spyderedged.

Anyway, what I’m saying, essentially, is don’t “Crucarta them all”, so to speak. Let the designers decide. And if PE wins out over SE, less for a designer’s intent than for a crass marketing decision, just suck it up and enjoy all the other deviations.

That's exactly what's happening with the Yojimbo. Serrations can potentially snag clothing in a slashing attack and could yank the knife out of your hand, so the Yojimbo doesn't have them and I'm pretty sure that's based on Michael Janich's preference and techniques. The Civilian was designed basically to just harm someone as much as possible with as little training as possible. What's more interesting to me is how those two knives seem to have polar opposite philosophies regarding slashing attacks, with the Civilian having both serrations and a giant hook on the end it seems all but guaranteed to snag and slip out of your hand. Then again with a blade like the Civilian you may only need to land one hit on an attacker to be effective...so long as there's only one attacker.

David this point you make right here and what you two guys are talking about confirms to me that its how the serration patterns are designed. If there is nothing to snag up on then that problem is eliminated.

When Michael Janich makes the point that serrations tend to snag on clothing and would make your self defense attempts null & void. He's absolutely right when talking about the conventional Spyderedge we see on most of Spyderco's folders. Well I do believe that could be remedied with a different serration pattern. Take the serration pattern on most of Spyderco's kitchen knives which have a more rounded/wavy type pattern>> with that pattern there nothing to get snagged up on??? With no pointed spikes that problem I believe can be eliminated.

And I'm not at all in fundamental disagreement with Mr. Janich because he has probably forgotten more than I know about tactical knife uses. But my point is that not every serration pattern is equal. I do believe that a serration pattern can be designed that won't have that snagging problem. The conventional Spyderedge that has the "spikey, pointy" type serration is great for hard uses and for cutting fibrous materials>> but it most certainly is prone to snagging up on certain materials. I've never snagged up with anything using Spyderco's kitchen knives that have the rounded/wavy types of serration .

I'll have to get with my wife and find a big chunk of meat I can slash up that she can still cook afterwards lol. I feel pretty confident that the serrations on my Caribbean are not gonna snag anything.

But aren't your serrations almost wavy by now

[Wartstein]

Next up has to be the Caribbean for me. I can't help but want a full flat serrated knife that's a bit more high end.

@Wartstein, why not a wharncliffe Endura?

I am sure the wharncliff SE Endura is a phenomenal knife.

But: In my main EDC I´d prefer to have the more centered and a bit more pronounced tip of the "regular" Endura, as well as the belly towards the tip.
Also the a bit less wide profile when closed - and it just looks better imho.

If it was any other knife, I guess I´d still go with the wharnie SE if it was the only ffg option at the moment.
But the "regular" Endura ffg SE (or alternatively Pac Salt 2 ffg SE) would most likely end the search for my perfect EDC knife, since, well, it would just be perfect for me. And so I don´t want something that is just almost perfect as the wharnie would be.

I still hope Sal will reply in the other thread if there are any plans for such a model. If not, I´ll get the wharnie Endura ffg SE eventually,

Ok! What do you do that makes you prefer a centred tip? First me a hawkbill is a tad excessive for a solo edc but a wharncliffe works really good for me. Mostly packages, food, boxes and small stuff which benefits from the extreme tip control a wharncliffe gives you.

Well, the more centered and a bit pointier tip of the "regular" Endura works a bit better for me when doing some light drilling, removing ticks from the skin, stabbing into something before cutting it (cardboard..) than a wharnie tip (though I never tried the Endura wharnie particularly)
But Mainly it is the small, but still noticeable amount of belly that leads up to the tip which I prefer and want in my main, all purpose EDC knife (the wharnie Endura obviously does not offer that)

And I admit: In a large knife I also prefer the looks of the "regular" Endura blade shape over the wharnie. Just as a sidenote, looks of knives are generally not important at all to me.

/ When you´re talking about the "extreme tip control a wharnie gives you": You mainly think of cutting stuff on a surface, right?