Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

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MichaelScott
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Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby MichaelScott » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:44 am

i well recall when the Para 3 was announced after months of unrealistic expectations and super hype. Then came the crash. Wailing. Gnashing of teeth. Moans and woe. How could this happen. How could Spyderco release such a fatally flawed knife after we had praised the idea to the skies?

And what was the major flaw, the cause of all the woe?

The clip.

It is the wrong kind. It is in the wrong place (regardless of the provision made to locate it in four different positions). It is not deep carry. Wrong color/material/shape, etc.

Some liked it, the clip, and some did not. The “did nots” were quick to grab their pitchforks and lanterns. Some just moved the clip, removed it, or bought a clip more to their liking.

I just get so tired of a user changeable accessory being lambasted as some sort of design sin that I have to wonder what is actually important in some people’s lives.

It is early. I’m into my second cup of strong coffee. Rant over.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby The Deacon » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:49 am

IDK, Michael, if this abortion didn't constitute a fatal flaw, it came damm close.

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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby VooDooChild » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:50 am

I feel like the issue is why you dont like something.

Not liking something because you would have preferred something else is not a flaw.

Not liking something because the design is wrong is a flaw.

This is not the para 3 or any other spyderco as far as Im concerned but somewhere there can be a clip so bad or clip placement so bad that it ruins a knife.

There can also be a wrong color to use for certain applications, but color is usually also about preference.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby soc_monki » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:53 am

I think the clip is fine, and the position is fine. It's not deep carry, and you don't always need (do you even need?) deep carry. It's placed in the perfect position (in tip up orientation) where it nestles into my palm perfectly and doesn't create a hot spot.

I think people just want something to complain about. And I think most people who complain about the clip and positioning might not even use the knife, otherwise they wouldn't care about it and actually enjoy using the tool. I haven't changed a single clip on a spyderco because they have the right amount of tension, don't cause hot spots, and they are attractive. Actually, I have only changed clips on my Benchmades because their deep carry clip is the best one they make! But I do use a few of the split arrow clips because the 940 clips are ugly... Lol

Now the only clips I can't get behind are wire clips. Never had luck with them, I hate how they squirm under my grip, not enough tension... Yea, not a fan at all. IMO it ruins knives their on, but I know I'm in a minority.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:16 am

Clip placement is definitely off-putting on some knives.
"Designer's choice" clips are definitely off-putting on some knives.
Kopa clips are definitely off-putting because they shouldn't be there. The pic Deacon posted definitely looks like an ugly scar on an otherwise nice knife.
If I don't like the way it carries, I won't carry it. Then I'll sell it. And on to the next.
The only flaws are the clips that literally snap in half or lose retention. But clips are easily replaced. So I guess I agree with you, Michael.

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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby wrdwrght » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:28 am

First-world problems are without end, whether in number or triviality.

On to my first cup of coffee.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby spyderg » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:36 am

Sometimes a perfectly good clip and clip placement for some is a fatal flaw for others.
- For me the wire clip is a good example, on my Para 3lw it folds over all the time and will eventually break or damage the knife. It is also problematic in use as the knife suddenly shifts in hand.
-The clip placement on say the new Opera or the McBee is a fatal flaw for me as a Lefty with a right hand injury as well, because it means I can’t carry it on the side I’ll use it.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby JRinFL » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:38 am

wrdwrght wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:28 am
First-world problems are without end, whether in number or triviality.

On to my first cup of coffee.
Ha! Agreed, and I don't even drink coffee. :D

Some clips bother me, most do not. However, the clip on the Kopa should never have been. Maybe a removable bayonet style mount would work, but I don't know if there is some patent on that. At least you could remove it without some horrible scar left behind on the scales or bolsters.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Doc Dan » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:44 am

I’m the odd man out, I guess. I don’t have any Spyderco clips that I don’t like. I can’t say that about a couple of other companies but I never gave Spyderco clips another glance as they all suit me. I don’t like deep carry clips, however. It makes the knife harder to access. The older I get this becomes more important.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby jdw » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:16 am

The clip on the Swayback is definitely a flaw.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby spyderg » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:43 am

jdw wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:16 am
The clip on the Swayback is definitely a flaw.
I definitely disagree on this one. While aesthetically it might not have been the best choice in some people’s minds, it is functional, comfortable for many, and doesn’t impede any function or use of the knife so I don’t see it as a flaw at all.
I opted to swap mine out for a Lynch deep carry, (which is the best part of them going with the standard clip, it allows for more available and less expensive aftermarket options than the horrible and in my eyes cheap looking wire clips). I find it carries better and while the stock one was fine in hand I prefer the Lynch clip.
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:55 am

i don't have a dog in this fight, but it does seem weird to me that they designed it the way they did. most other designs have the lanyard hole next to the clip in favor of deeper (not deep) carry. the para 3 lw design is more consistent with other spyderco designs in this way and the g10 para 3 should've probably been done the same way. i wouldn't call it a flaw in the design, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake.
whatever the case, i agree it's not a big deal. i like the para 3 over the pm2 (i don't own either, but have handled both) and would still buy one in g10. i personally don't care about deep carry, but the para 3 sits too high in the pocket relative to its size, so i'd get one of the clips that has the cutout for the lanyard hole. i think that's a good solution that you just have to factor into the cost of the knife.

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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:00 am

jdw wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:16 am
The clip on the Swayback is definitely a flaw.
It's "definitely a flaw" for you but it works just fine for me. I would've preferred they used the wire clip but I have to assume it was considered and they decided the hourglass clip was a better choice for whatever reason. I see people in the Facebook groups bashing it because it protrudes way more than other hourglass clips and causes major a major hot spot for them. For me it's no more of a hot spot than any other clip. It doesn't bother me at all
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:13 am

i'm surprised we still need something as trivial as a pocket clip to complain about with everything going on in the world right now.

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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Wartstein » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:22 am

ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:13 am
i'm surprised we still need something as trivial as a pocket clip to complain about with everything going on in the world right now.

Well , if you mean "complaining" like in " a pocket clip I don´t like is the end of the world" I am with you 100%!

But: Generally it is kind of a decision in principle if people may discuss tiny and in the grand scheme meaningless knife details and allow themselves to actually enjoy that "with everything going on in the world right now"... or not.
If not, it´d be the end of this forum for quite some time... :rolleyes:
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Wartstein » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:28 am

Well, a clip I don´t like could never be a "fatal flaw" I guess (as long as I actually can change it to one I like more).

But it can certainly contribute to the factors that make me keep a knife or not: Enter the Kapara:

I loved this knife in many ways, but could not stand its deep carry clip (I generally don´t like deep carry clips at all, even more so on longer folders - but that´s just me, more power to all the deep carry warriors out there! :) )
Together with some other factors that clip and that I was not inclined to try and get a non deep carry wire (!) replacement made me decide that my Enduras still where the slightly "better Kaparas" for me personally and the Kapara had to go...
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby MichaelScott » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:31 am

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:22 am
ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:13 am
i'm surprised we still need something as trivial as a pocket clip to complain about with everything going on in the world right now.

Well , if you mean "complaining" like in " a pocket clip I don´t like is the end of the world" I am with you 100%!

But: Generally it is kind of a decision in principle if people may discuss tiny and in the grand scheme meaningless knife details and allow themselves to actually enjoy that "with everything going on in the world right now"... or not.
If not, it´d be the end of this forum for quite some time... :rolleyes:
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Tgmr05 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:35 am

Clips? I remove them for any normal sized pocket knife. An unnecessary convenience type accessory that actually gets in the way, but seems to be a sticking point for so many. Maybe I will live long enough to see some type of magnet type usage that does not take away from the form of the knife...magnetic threads in clothes?

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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby Wartstein » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:39 am

Tgmr05 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:35 am
.... Maybe I will live long enough to see some type of magnet type usage that does not take away from the form of the knife...magnetic threads in clothes?

Don't know if we'll ever see that and how practical it would be and be to produce in the end, but it is actually a very innovative idea!! :)
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Re: Clips you don’t like do not constitute a fatal flaw

Postby wrdwrght » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:40 am

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:28 am
made me decide that my Enduras still where the slightly "better Kaparas" for me personally and the Kapara had to go...
Were I to nitpick the Kapara, I don't care for its opening pinch or its slippery handle, itself made worse by the 3D-radiusing. But I love my Kapara in spite of these "flaws".

But, isn't it comforting to know we can "retreat" to Glesser designs, if we must, and suffer no loss of function or comfort?
...experience the spirit of the design that the designer has built into the 3 D version of his mental idea. - S. Glesser (ever mindful of a mentor’s “Simplicate and add lightness”)

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