A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Spyderman91
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A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Spyderman91 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:59 pm

Hello all and good morning it has been sometime!

Hope everyone is staying productive, and working hard during these bizarro times. With the pending release of BladeHQ's "tanto" PM2 something dawned on me... With the plethora of aftermarket parts available, and now a second blade type about to be released... It is clear that one of the appeals of the PM2 (at least for me) is customization!

Much like the xm-18 where everything can be modified with the wide variety of parts available. A user can get a unique custom knife with Spydercos incredible blade quality. The main difference however is the xm-18 has numerous blade shapes available. I settled on a no choil wharnecliff but that was one of many configurations.

So here's my vision for the pm2... More blade shapes! I know Spyderco was against selling just blades by themselves... However, I feel this could be a lucrative opportunity as this will drive cost down, and individuals can reuse their hardware to give their knife a complete make over. I think the tanto pm2 could just be the beginning.

Whether or not they were aware... Spyderco produces some of the best modular knives on the market! I've never had an issue with disassembly. Reassembly is generally a breeze, and just requires micro adjustments to achieve perfection.

What do you all think, Should their be more blade shapes available for Spydercos flagship models, and would you like to see Spyderco sell just blades by themselves?

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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Sumdumguy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:08 pm

More like deja vu.

Like, I think I've seen this thread before :p

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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby ABX2011 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 pm

Sell just the blades? They won't even replace a blade now.

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Albatross
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Albatross » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:30 pm

Often times the locking mechanism needs to be swapped along with the blade. It doesn't always cause an issue, but I've done quite a few swaps, and often the locking mechanisms didn't mate up to the swapped blade as nicely as the stock blade.

I thought there was talk of a custom shop in the works, or was I dreaming? I hope it wasn't a dream.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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kennethsime
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby kennethsime » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:26 pm

I think the Dragonfly, Delica, or Endura are better candidates for this, honestly.

That said, as others mentioned, Spyderco prefers to build their knives more like Porsches than Legos; you don't let just anybody tear it apart and rebuild if you want Spyderco quality. Sal has even said "they aren't Legos."

I think the balance is offering different blade shapes in the popular platforms which support them well. Personally, I think the PM2 is perfect as-is, but I wouldn't mind a reverse-tanto or perhaps a leaf-shape PM2.
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Tucson Tom » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:47 pm

I've never understood the Barbie Doll approach to knives. But it takes all kinds to make a world.

I have driven my Tacoma for 20 years entirely stock, but I know a fellow with a 2 year old truck that is spending
all kinds of money "pimping it out".

The custom shop idea has been raised several times. It seems like the last time around Sal said something like
"they might talk about it". I try to see it from their perspective, and I certainly don't speak for Spyderco, but it would
have to make sense from a business perspective. They are a small company (as I understand it) and maybe they
would have to hire one or more people to run a custom shop. Would it pay for them to do so? I dunno.

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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:57 pm

Spyderco has shown off perhaps 5-6 different PM2 blade shape variations at recent knife shows over the last year or two - one of them was the recently released BHQ Tanto version. Trust me, they’re way ahead of you already on this particular topic. Cheers, Radioactive :)
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby wrdwrght » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:07 pm

Didn’t Sal say Spydies aren’t Legos?

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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby phaust » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:33 pm

I think some here are confusing customization in the style of like the BM custom shop or that Spyderco offers different versions of the same model with how Hinderer sells *extra* parts that the *user/buyer* installs. Those are quite different. I think the OP is talking about the latter. Going on that...

The issue, I think, is priced into the XM 18 is the added cost to make the tolerances of everything close enough to be swappable to the comfort level of the company.

Meanwhile threads here and there have popped up since Spyderco came out with stepped pivot--which was billed as a way to simplify setting the action, just tighten it to the max and you're good to go--showing the tolerances in that are not so good as to reach the goal of all actions feeling the same. The design is right; the tolerances/manufacturing isn't there it seems.

Throw on top as wrdwrght stated that Sal/Spyderco intentionally don't manufacture and design so as to make knives including the PM2 serviceable and are not comfortable with the idea, and I cannot see any way this happens.

I could see the company coming out with a trial model for this designed specifically for user customization of parts, but I can't see them ever going in on it with an existing model unfortunately.

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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:18 pm

It’s likely none of the customization or offering up of aftermarket parts is going to happen (at least any time soon, there was a thread about a custom shop recently). My comment was solely that Spyderco will nearly likely offer sprints or more exclusives with additional PM2 blade shapes in the coming months/years, that’s all. Nothing more.

(For the record, one can obviously blade swap PM2s into any configuration possible, you just need all the stock parts from at least two variants to do it...)
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Albatross
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Albatross » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:34 pm

phaust wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:33 pm
I think some here are confusing customization in the style of like the BM custom shop or that Spyderco offers different versions of the same model with how Hinderer sells *extra* parts that the *user/buyer* installs. Those are quite different. I think the OP is talking about the latter. Going on that...

The issue, I think, is priced into the XM 18 is the added cost to make the tolerances of everything close enough to be swappable to the comfort level of the company.

Meanwhile threads here and there have popped up since Spyderco came out with stepped pivot--which was billed as a way to simplify setting the action, just tighten it to the max and you're good to go--showing the tolerances in that are not so good as to reach the goal of all actions feeling the same. The design is right; the tolerances/manufacturing isn't there it seems.

Throw on top as wrdwrght stated that Sal/Spyderco intentionally don't manufacture and design so as to make knives including the PM2 serviceable and are not comfortable with the idea, and I cannot see any way this happens.

I could see the company coming out with a trial model for this designed specifically for user customization of parts, but I can't see them ever going in on it with an existing model unfortunately.
No, a custom shop is not the same as swappable blades, but the topic reminded me that I've been wanting a Para 3 with S90V and G10. That was more for myself, than the OP. I could get the CF Para 3, but I'd rather not encourage the secondary market prices.

Whether it's a blade from another knife of the same model or a blade-only purchase, tolerances will be off, unless there is a mated lock to go with it. Spyderco could address the tolerances or sell a blade and lock together, but both options would be somewhat expensive for the end user.

The trial model you mentioned was suggested as a Mule replacement a while back, with swappable blades, but cost and too many differing opinions squashed that idea. It's too bad the folding mule never took off, since a lot of us use folders more than fixed blades.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Pancake
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby Pancake » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:21 am

phaust wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:33 pm
Meanwhile threads here and there have popped up since Spyderco came out with stepped pivot--which was billed as a way to simplify setting the action, just tighten it to the max and you're good to go--showing the tolerances in that are not so good as to reach the goal of all actions feeling the same. The design is right; the tolerances/manufacturing isn't there it seems.
That is a part of why Sebenza cost so much. I have no doubt that Spyderco could put such tolerances on their models, but are Spyderco users willing to pay 150 % more to each knife?

I am not sure about this. Like, I just dont see myself in the morging deciding that I want to use my wharncliffe blade today, so I disassemble my knife, swap a blade, assemble it together and .....No. For some folks it could be cool, but not for me. If you would have system like press one button to change a blade...ok, but disassembling it for each time...No, thank you.
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Re: A Vision for the PM2, The XM-18 of Spyderco

Postby soc_monki » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:42 am

I don't think any knife with most locks available are truly swappable. Frame locks, liner locks, compression locks, they all depend on the interface between the tang and lockbar. Swap the blade, you're going to have problems. People swap the blades of para 3s and para 3 lightweights a lot and usually don't seem to have problems, and you cannot swap the lockbars on them. However I think it's luck of the draw. I've seen plenty of people swapping blades on liner and frame locks and have blade play, lock over travel, or no lockup at all.

I got lucky one time. I bent (somehow) my Kershaw Thermite. I bought another one and it had vertical blade play (tang was ground too much). I swapped the blade from my bent one and it locks perfectly.

I think swapping scales and hardware are fine, I've swapped hardware. That's not a big deal imo. Swapping scales can be bad if they are machined badly. Swapping blades? Nah... Too much uncertainty there. Even Hinderers don't get blade swapped, it's just hardware and scales. And there are plenty of scale and hardware options out there for Pm2s. Spyderco themselves don't do it because I don't think Sal likes taking business away from small makers like that (such as with deep carry clips).

Personally? I'm happy with my Pm2s as is. I'm boring though! Have considered Aramis scales for my S30v pm2, but don't think I want to sink 100+ into a knife I paid 100 for and is a fine tool as it is.
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