Rex 121

[nerdlock]

If Sal himself finds it a pain in the rear to work with, and resharpen even with CBN, I doubt majority of customers would have better luck. I know a few of us here are sharpening and "edge" junkies, but I don't know if they'll think it profitable to produce this in mass quantities knowing that 80% of the customers wouldn't know how to resharpen this knife once it gets dull (which to be fair, would be quite some time, assuming the proper heat treatment and grind).

[tbdoc4kids]

Perhaps a Flash Batch would be a good approach.

[FRNFanboy]

I’d be all over that! Give it micarta scales while you’re at it.

[Cl1ff]

If Sal himself finds it a pain in the rear to work with, and resharpen even with CBN, I doubt majority of customers would have better luck. I know a few of us here are sharpening and "edge" junkies, but I don't know if they'll think it profitable to produce this in mass quantities knowing that 80% of the customers wouldn't know how to resharpen this knife once it gets dull (which to be fair, would be quite some time, assuming the proper heat treatment and grind).

I have to disagree with you, Nerdlock.
While you are right that very resistant steels are more niche than usual, this contradicts those sharpening the evidently super popular Maxamet and K390 models which achieve nearly the same hardness.

Being very resistant during sharpening is an observation, not necessarily good or bad.
How are users supposed to learn to use and sharpen such steels if they can’t obtain them?

The more Rex121, Maxamet, and K390 that’s out in the market, the more experienced people get using/sharpening them. They can therefore achieve the most potential for performance, leading to an increase in demand once said performance is realized.
(At least, that’s how it goes in my head :p )

I’m willing to learn and acquire the necessary skills or tools. I think the popularity of Maxamet and K390 is evidence I’m not alone.
Maybe “you and I” are just as receptive to the steel’s potential place in Spyderco’s catalogue as it is resistant.

Sal answered my question from the other day about what Rex121 was like to sharpen and work with, but I’d still be curious to hear more from those who've used it, in regards to properties beyond wear resistance.

I find it fascinating that production factories and custom makers alike can find extra difficulties working with Rex121! It makes me wonder how both experiences differ?

I know it’s obvious how much I want this steel in a Spyderco, but of course I also respect Sal’s decisions.
How cool is it that Rex121, a topic which has one of my first comments on the forum, even if that’s not so long ago, is now the same thread where we can talk about the steel’s performance in a test sample! That’s a decision from Sal I really appreciate and is already a win in my book!

[The Mastiff]

The steel is a REAL PITA to work with. Our Taichung maker is particularly good.

I've read that before Sal. At one point someone talked about the difficulty of finding a place that wanted to roll it into knife thickness. If it's Niagara I've got to give them credit. For a while now they have really been working at developing their knife steel business. They sent me a free bunch of different steels to try out probably 7 or 8 years ago that I did my best to get to different knifemakers. They are good people. It seems like this industry has a bunch of good people attached to it.

Your Taichung knives have been excellent in my experiences. That isn't new news though. :)

Joe

[Deadboxhero]

If Sal himself finds it a pain in the rear to work with, and resharpen even with CBN, I doubt majority of customers would have better luck. I know a few of us here are sharpening and "edge" junkies, but I don't know if they'll think it profitable to produce this in mass quantities knowing that 80% of the customers wouldn't know how to resharpen this knife once it gets dull (which to be fair, would be quite some time, assuming the proper heat treatment and grind).

I have to disagree with you, Nerdlock.
While you are right that very resistant steels are more niche than usual, this contradicts those sharpening the evidently super popular Maxamet and K390 models which achieve nearly the same hardness.

Being very resistant during sharpening is an observation, not necessarily good or bad.
How are users supposed to learn to use and sharpen such steels if they can’t obtain them?

The more Rex121, Maxamet, and K390 that’s out in the market, the more experienced people get using/sharpening them. They can therefore achieve the most potential for performance, leading to an increase in demand once said performance is realized.
(At least, that’s how it goes in my head :p )

I’m willing to learn and acquire the necessary skills or tools. I think the popularity of Maxamet and K390 is evidence I’m not alone.
Maybe “you and I” are just as receptive to the steel’s potential place in Spyderco’s catalogue as it is resistant.

Sal answered my question from the other day about what Rex121 was like to sharpen and work with, but I’d still be curious to hear more from those who've used it, in regards to properties beyond wear resistance.

I find it fascinating that production factories and custom makers alike can find extra difficulties working with Rex121! It makes me wonder how both experiences differ?

I know it’s obvious how much I want this steel in a Spyderco, but of course I also respect Sal’s decisions.
How cool is it that Rex121, a topic which has one of my first comments on the forum, even if that’s not so long ago, is now the same thread where we can talk about the steel’s performance in a test sample! That’s a decision from Sal I really appreciate and is already a win in my book!

Some perspective just for fun.

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

Most steels it's knives per belts, in steels like rex121 it's belts per knife :D

[sal]

I didn't say it was bad. Just a different flavor. Sometimes the hardest horse to train ends up the best? We do this to learn about the "spirit" of the steel. "All Good, just different".

sal

[p_atrick]

Some perspective just for fun.

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

Most steels it's knives per belts, in steels like rex121 it's belts per knife :D

How long does it take to grind and hand finish a Rex 121 blade?

[TenGrainBread]

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

I had a thought that Electronic Discharge Machining (EDM) might be helpful here instead of complete removal via abrasives. But given it uses an electrical arc it would mess with the heat treatment on the surface. Maybe the majority of the stock could be removed via EDM and then the recast layer removed with abrasives?

EDM machines are somewhat expensive though.

[NarwhalisnotKosher]

PM2! More carbides= more happy

[NarwhalisnotKosher]

If Sal himself finds it a pain in the rear to work with, and resharpen even with CBN, I doubt majority of customers would have better luck. I know a few of us here are sharpening and "edge" junkies, but I don't know if they'll think it profitable to produce this in mass quantities knowing that 80% of the customers wouldn't know how to resharpen this knife once it gets dull (which to be fair, would be quite some time, assuming the proper heat treatment and grind).

I see it as a way of advancing the hobby. The more supersteels in the wild the more knife people take the reasonable steps of moving to diamond abrasives instead of insisting on using soft stones.

[nerdlock]

If Sal himself finds it a pain in the rear to work with, and resharpen even with CBN, I doubt majority of customers would have better luck. I know a few of us here are sharpening and "edge" junkies, but I don't know if they'll think it profitable to produce this in mass quantities knowing that 80% of the customers wouldn't know how to resharpen this knife once it gets dull (which to be fair, would be quite some time, assuming the proper heat treatment and grind).

I have to disagree with you, Nerdlock.
While you are right that very resistant steels are more niche than usual, this contradicts those sharpening the evidently super popular Maxamet and K390 models which achieve nearly the same hardness.

Being very resistant during sharpening is an observation, not necessarily good or bad.
How are users supposed to learn to use and sharpen such steels if they can’t obtain them?

The more Rex121, Maxamet, and K390 that’s out in the market, the more experienced people get using/sharpening them. They can therefore achieve the most potential for performance, leading to an increase in demand once said performance is realized.
(At least, that’s how it goes in my head :p )

I’m willing to learn and acquire the necessary skills or tools. I think the popularity of Maxamet and K390 is evidence I’m not alone.
Maybe “you and I” are just as receptive to the steel’s potential place in Spyderco’s catalogue as it is resistant.

Sal answered my question from the other day about what Rex121 was like to sharpen and work with, but I’d still be curious to hear more from those who've used it, in regards to properties beyond wear resistance.

I find it fascinating that production factories and custom makers alike can find extra difficulties working with Rex121! It makes me wonder how both experiences differ?

I know it’s obvious how much I want this steel in a Spyderco, but of course I also respect Sal’s decisions.
How cool is it that Rex121, a topic which has one of my first comments on the forum, even if that’s not so long ago, is now the same thread where we can talk about the steel’s performance in a test sample! That’s a decision from Sal I really appreciate and is already a win in my book!

Some perspective just for fun.

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

Most steels it's knives per belts, in steels like rex121 it's belts per knife :D

Interesting. Thank you Shawn for the insight in grinding this steel.

I'm curious on how will that translate into cost in diamond/cbn stones and hones, and how long will these end-user sharpening materials last against a steel like REX 121.

[Deadboxhero]

Some perspective just for fun.

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

Most steels it's knives per belts, in steels like rex121 it's belts per knife :D

How long does it take to grind and hand finish a Rex 121 blade?

Hours

[MFlovejp]

Hahaha! Very creative. Love Over the Top it’s a classic :)

[Cl1ff]

Some perspective just for fun.

It took six high quality 2x72 abrasive belts to grind a 2.5" Catra test Blade to 0.010" in Rex 121
It took a quarter of a belt to grind a Catra test blade in 1095

Each belt is close to $10 a piece.

Most steels it's knives per belts, in steels like rex121 it's belts per knife :D

Thank you! I hadn’t realized just how much variation there could be between steels when grinding them. That’s really interesting.

I didn't say it was bad. Just a different flavor. Sometimes the hardest horse to train ends up the best? We do this to learn about the "spirit" of the steel. "All Good, just different".

sal

Ha, you’re much better at getting to the point compared to myself! :p

I'm curious on how will that translate into cost in diamond/cbn stones and hones, and how long will these end-user sharpening materials last against a steel like REX 121.

You bring up a really good point here, Nerdlock!

[sal]

The word is "Obstinate". Taking a piece of steel and turning it into a knife blade is challenging enough, but the more obstinate a steel is,the better edge holding generally. Because the steel does not want to give up molecules on forming, abrading, polishing, sharpening, etc.

sal

[Phil Wilson]

I think Obstinate, Pretty much covers it Sal. It is like 3 or 4 times the effort to grind out and finish a blade as say 10V. It holds an edge longer than anything else I have tried but has the lowest toughness of any knife steels I have worked with. Larrin's graphs show those two extremes. Corrosion resistance is also low. No free lunch. I look at what I call the "utility factor" Is the effort and cost worth it if another grade can do all that we want on a hunting trip for example, field dress, cooking work and still have the edge at the end then maybe it is a better option. This depends on the trip and what the tasks are but you see what I mean. The factor of safety against failure is also to be considered since a broken knife is far worse that a dull one. I still have some and can try some heat treats yet to optimize it but in the meantime I /we still have K390, Vanadius 10, 10V. and the like that currently do the job at hand. If anyone can be successful with it Spyderco can. Phil

[Cl1ff]

The word is "Obstinate". Taking a piece of steel and turning it into a knife blade is challenging enough, but the more obstinate a steel is,the better edge holding generally. Because the steel does not want to give up molecules on forming, abrading, polishing, sharpening, etc.

sal

Obstinate is the word of the day!

I think Obstinate, Pretty much covers it Sal. It is like 3 or 4 times the effort to grind out and finish a blade as say 10V. It holds an edge longer than anything else I have tried but has the lowest toughness of any knife steels I have worked with. Larrin's graphs show those two extremes. Corrosion resistance is also low. No free lunch...
...I still have some and can try some heat treats yet to optimize it but in the meantime I /we still have K390, Vanadius 10, 10V. and the like that currently do the job at hand. If anyone can be successful with it Spyderco can. Phil

Thank you for the awesome insight as always!

Seems sort of like the 15v that Shawn is championing. However, I might recall that 15v is significantly tougher (need to reread that thread)?

Thinking that Rex121 could be great for slicing knives like many of Spyderco’s small fixed blade, folding, or culinary designs.

I agree that Spyderco is “the one to do it” in production knives when it comes to steels.

Maybe I can relate to this steel lol :p A Tyrannosaurus rex is my profile picture for a reason!

Thanks again for all the cool talk!

[nerdlock]

I think Obstinate, Pretty much covers it Sal. It is like 3 or 4 times the effort to grind out and finish a blade as say 10V. It holds an edge longer than anything else I have tried but has the lowest toughness of any knife steels I have worked with. Larrin's graphs show those two extremes. Corrosion resistance is also low. No free lunch. I look at what I call the "utility factor" Is the effort and cost worth it if another grade can do all that we want on a hunting trip for example, field dress, cooking work and still have the edge at the end then maybe it is a better option. This depends on the trip and what the tasks are but you see what I mean. The factor of safety against failure is also to be considered since a broken knife is far worse that a dull one. I still have some and can try some heat treats yet to optimize it but in the meantime I /we still have K390, Vanadius 10, 10V. and the like that currently do the job at hand. If anyone can be successful with it Spyderco can. Phil

Thank you for your insights, Phil. Always a pleasure to see the legends contribute here and I am always all ears to learn something new. How does grinding Rex 121 compare to let's say, s90v of the Southfork?

[Gsg9]

If this is heading to Taichung it means we're not gonna see a PM2 in this steel.
Or a Rex 121 Military and that is a shame.
Also we've been asking for a Maxamet Military for some time...