C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

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troutinCO
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2641

Post by troutinCO »

Oh man that looks great!
TheGiant80
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2642

Post by TheGiant80 »

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Carry on!
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2643

Post by R100 »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:33 am
I've been using mine quite a bit and thought maybe it's time to start looking into sharpening it. Turns out the serrations are ground somewhere steeper than 20 degrees, because the 40 slots on the Sharpmaker are hitting the very top edge of the bevel. This is a bummer and a big concern for me because it'll be quite a lot of reprofiling to take this down to 15 degrees and I'm really concerned about losing serration definition since the scallops are already so mellow. I guess I can try to freehand it but I really wish I could just sharpen it the same as all my other SE knives.
Either I got lucky or you got unlucky because mine is well under 20° except for the last big serration which appears to be dead on. After a bit of use it came back shaving sharp with about one minute on the Sharpmaker.

Image

Dan
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2644

Post by Evil D »

R100 wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:16 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:33 am
I've been using mine quite a bit and thought maybe it's time to start looking into sharpening it. Turns out the serrations are ground somewhere steeper than 20 degrees, because the 40 slots on the Sharpmaker are hitting the very top edge of the bevel. This is a bummer and a big concern for me because it'll be quite a lot of reprofiling to take this down to 15 degrees and I'm really concerned about losing serration definition since the scallops are already so mellow. I guess I can try to freehand it but I really wish I could just sharpen it the same as all my other SE knives.
Either I got lucky or you got unlucky because mine is well under 20° except for the last big serration which appears to be dead on. After a bit of use it came back shaving sharp with about one minute on the Sharpmaker.

Image

Dan


I recolored the bevels between settings. I only made light passes on the ultra fines to see where the angle was. I could see myself being a couple degrees off but not +/- 5 degrees to the point that both settings hit the top shoulder like that.

Image
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2645

Post by R100 »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:24 pm
R100 wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:16 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:33 am
I've been using mine quite a bit and thought maybe it's time to start looking into sharpening it. Turns out the serrations are ground somewhere steeper than 20 degrees, because the 40 slots on the Sharpmaker are hitting the very top edge of the bevel. This is a bummer and a big concern for me because it'll be quite a lot of reprofiling to take this down to 15 degrees and I'm really concerned about losing serration definition since the scallops are already so mellow. I guess I can try to freehand it but I really wish I could just sharpen it the same as all my other SE knives.
Either I got lucky or you got unlucky because mine is well under 20° except for the last big serration which appears to be dead on. After a bit of use it came back shaving sharp with about one minute on the Sharpmaker.

Image

Dan


I recolored the bevels between settings. I only made light passes on the ultra fines to see where the angle was. I could see myself being a couple degrees off but not +/- 5 degrees to the point that both settings hit the top shoulder like that.

Image
Bummer. This is what I was worried about with the Police 4 K390 and why I didn't buy one. The serrations look to be quite obtusely ground and I didn't want to deal with reprofiling K390. Even doing lc200n or H1 takes me many thousands of passes with the CBN rods.

I wouldn't have bought the Ayoob if I thought the teeth were ground at more than 20° because the teeth are already so shallow that I don't know what you would end up with after a reprofile. Seeing your example makes me glad I got the one I did.

Dan
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2646

Post by mark greenman »

The different serration angle and patterns makes me wonder, when SE knives are sent back to Spyderco HQ for their sharpening service, what does the factory use to re-sharpen SE?
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2647

Post by mark greenman »

Hopsbreath wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:10 am
Image
Back from the spa treatment, it’s a little leaner and ready to mingle. Time to get put to use! Hollow grind courtesy of John with BGM.
That looks fantastic!
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2648

Post by cabfrank »

mark greenman wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:56 pm
The different serration angle and patterns makes me wonder, when SE knives are sent back to Spyderco HQ for their sharpening service, what does the factory use to re-sharpen SE?
It's off topic, but I've wondered the same.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2649

Post by Hopsbreath »

mark greenman wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:58 pm
Hopsbreath wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:10 am
Image
Back from the spa treatment, it’s a little leaner and ready to mingle. Time to get put to use! Hollow grind courtesy of John with BGM.
That looks fantastic!
I’m really enjoying it! Much more slicey and fits my use better now.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2650

Post by JD Spydo »

cabfrank wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:24 am
mark greenman wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:56 pm
The different serration angle and patterns makes me wonder, when SE knives are sent back to Spyderco HQ for their sharpening service, what does the factory use to re-sharpen SE?
It's off topic, but I've wondered the same.
No your inquiry is for sure on topic. Because the serrated units on this model have changed in their pattern and evidently in their overall grind as well. It's something we need to discuss by all means.

Maybe I'm weird but so far I really love my full SE and full PE both. I haven't done any brutal jobs with either one yet but with the complete ease in which they process food is just awesome IMO. I can't wait to try and fillet fish with the plain edge.

Each serration pattern has it's advantages and to a small degree it's disadvantages as well.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2651

Post by Matus »

I really don’t want to give Spyderco hard time for bringing us this super cool model - I really appreciate they did it. But putting out SE knives with a grind larger than 20 degrees is really something that I have a hard time to get excited about.
... I like weird :bug-red :bug-white-red :bug-white ...
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2652

Post by PStone »

Mine appears to be right at 20 deg until the last scallop and PE section.

This is after a few scrubs on the 40 deg slots:
Image
Hitting shoulder and apex together.

Now the tip:
Image

I am in no way complaining. I like the stout tip edge. I have been very pleased with its performance over the last few weeks. I don’t have a ton of SE experience. Mainly the Native salt and UKPK salt. They performed exactly as I thought SE should. Aggressive and powerful. This Ayoob though, feels like a PE almost. Until the aggression is needed and then wow! It definitely shines through. If there were more serrations like this style, I would be more apt to opt for the SE over PE versions. Also, day 24 of 30 today.
:bug-red-white
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2653

Post by troutinCO »

If I was guaranteed to get one that was like above,(Pstone/R100's at or under 20dps versions) I would grab an SE version. Of if I had the opportunity to exchange for free until I got one that I was happy with, after running the edges on the sharpmaker thereby ruining the resell ability of them to check the DPS, I would spend 210 bucks today to start hunting for that one.

Based on my luck, the 2 PE versions I got, looking at photos and not wanting to play the buy and return game, I will keep my money in pocket rather than gamble it. I am however very happy with my 2 PE versions and will highly recommend them.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2654

Post by mark greenman »

First cuts with the Ayoob, SE cuts quite smoothly on fine cardboard, quickly shortening the coke box so that it fits in the fridge door, and creating a popular little chew toy for the pup.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2655

Post by Evil D »

I did the majority of the reprofile job on mine today, it did not go so well lol. Let's just say it's not very serrated anymore. I'll see it through and it'll be a sharp usable knife but it's far closer to a PE than a SE now. It's a bit disappointing but life goes on. Half way through taking it down to 30 I got curious and made some passes on the 40 slots and it was still hitting on the top shoulder of my new 30 degree bevel. I wish I had an angle laser so I could have tested the angle before I started.
All SE all the time since 2017
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2656

Post by troutinCO »

Evil D wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:32 pm
I did the majority of the reprofile job on mine today, it did not go so well lol. Let's just say it's not very serrated anymore. I'll see it through and it'll be a sharp usable knife but it's far closer to a PE than a SE now. It's a bit disappointing but life goes on. Half way through taking it down to 30 I got curious and made some passes on the 40 slots and it was still hitting on the top shoulder of my new 30 degree bevel. I wish I had an angle laser so I could have tested the angle before I started.
Dang.....I can say it works really well in PE form. I really like mine after I reprofiled them down. I may send one off for one of those hollow grinds that Hopsbreath did to his.
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mark greenman
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2657

Post by mark greenman »

A nice write up on the Ayoob and its SD origins:

http://knifesearch.blogspot.com/2022/08 ... ayoob.html

Image
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2658

Post by wrdwrght »

mark greenman wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:26 pm
A nice write up on the Ayoob and its SD origins:

http://knifesearch.blogspot.com/2022/08 ... ayoob.html

Image
Where does Mas say, as does the cited article, that his design was meant “…to fit between the ribs and lacerate the heart. The design locked the blade open at an angle of less than 180 degrees. This allows you to utilize the knife with the wrist very close to the strong, neutral position. More on that later”?

BTW, there is no more later, at least from Mas.
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2659

Post by wrdwrght »

Hopsbreath wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:10 am
Image
Back from the spa treatment, it’s a little leaner and ready to mingle. Time to get put to use! Hollow grind courtesy of John with BGM.
What motivated you to get a hollow regrind?
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
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mark greenman
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2660

Post by mark greenman »

wrdwrght wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:22 pm
mark greenman wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:26 pm
A nice write up on the Ayoob and its SD origins:

http://knifesearch.blogspot.com/2022/08 ... ayoob.html

Image
Where does Mas say, as does the cited article, that his design was meant “…to fit between the ribs and lacerate the heart. The design locked the blade open at an angle of less than 180 degrees. This allows you to utilize the knife with the wrist very close to the strong, neutral position. More on that later”?

BTW, there is no more later, at least from Mas.
His writings are more than a decade+ ago, on the forums. I had some more excerpts saved of his in my review from back in the day:

C60 Massad Ayoob- 3 year review w/ 20+ pics
viewtopic.php?t=45380

The C60 Massad Ayoob was a designed by world-renowned self-defense expert Massad Ayoob. Here is Mr. Ayoob’s explanation of the design.

“The rationale was to get the blade directly in line with the radius bone of the forearm when the average human wrist was in the "locked" position, which puts the middle knuckle of the hand directly in line with the axis of the forearm.

This is what gives the C60 its superior stabbing accuracy that posters in this thread have mentioned, and it also gives tremendously more penetration, because it aligns the skeleto-muscular support structure of the arm with the point (number one), and therefore with anyone who knows how to put his weight behind a punch, gets the entire body's force going directly behind the point (number two).

As other posters have also noted, the handle-to-blade angle puts much more force behind a slash as well as a stab. Instead of the blade "skimming" over the target as it hits hard resistance such as bone, the 90 degree angle of the blade when held in reverse grip (and KEPT there by a handle shape that allows the thumb to lock it at that angle) the C60 is more likely to shear directly through whatever resistance it encounters. Because of the design features, something very similar happens with a slash from the conventional saber or pekal grasp.

As to the tip-down carry: I'm one of those early Spyderco fans whom Sal calls "Clipiteers," [:-)] who started their Spyderco experience with the original Police model, learned to open it with a pinch-snap, and discovered we could win bets beating guys with bali-songs and even "automatic knives" in opening speed. The pinch snap uses the gross motor movement of the closed hand instead of the more fine-motor skill of using the thumb to open the blade via the original design intent of the "Spyder-hole."
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