C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

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JD Spydo
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:27 am

Yeah "Nerdlock" like I said I do think that XHP would be an ideal choice for the blade steel on the C-60 Ayoob. The properties of that steel I truly think would go "hand in hand" with that type of tactical/practical design.

That's one unique aspect of the C-60 it is truly tactical and it also has the capacity to be practical as well.

But hey I'm not knocking another VG-10 model. If that's what it takes to get this model back in the limelight I'll go with it. Because I truly think this Sprint Run will go over so well that it will propel Spyderco to put it back in the main line up. Yep I think it will be popular again when all the newer fans get a taste of this great model.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:37 pm

benben wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:53 pm
Mini2white wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:40 am
I am really looking forward to this knife with a stainless blade. A Hap40 or Super blue etc would be a deal breaker for me since I want to carry it, and I don't carry these types of steels.
I feel just about 100% certain it’ll be stainless, I’ll be shocked if it’s not!
I"m pretty certain that VG-10 has already been decided on. Now if they elect to change it over to one of the Supersteels I would be all over it. But this knife is so awesome even with standard VG-10 blade steel. The times I've used it for hard work either in SE or PE I've never been disappointed. Sure you'll have to sharpen it more often than you would with one of the more exotic blade steels. But I'm kind of a sharpening fanatic as it is so it doesn't bother me in the least.

BRING IT ON!!!! is all I can say at this point. I'm truly "Itching" to put this bad boy to work :cool: Not to mention it just looks extremely cool as well as being super functional. I'm like EVIL D I'm sitting here counting the days. And I hope it's sooner rather than later :)

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby bearrowland » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:08 pm

Yes!!! ^^
Barry
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Do what you can, where you are, with what you have! Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Cambertree » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:26 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:37 pm
benben wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:53 pm
Mini2white wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:40 am
I am really looking forward to this knife with a stainless blade. A Hap40 or Super blue etc would be a deal breaker for me since I want to carry it, and I don't carry these types of steels.
I feel just about 100% certain it’ll be stainless, I’ll be shocked if it’s not!
I"m pretty certain that VG-10 has already been decided on. Now if they elect to change it over to one of the Supersteels I would be all over it. But this knife is so awesome even with standard VG-10 blade steel. The times I've used it for hard work either in SE or PE I've never been disappointed. Sure you'll have to sharpen it more often than you would with one of the more exotic blade steels. But I'm kind of a sharpening fanatic as it is so it doesn't bother me in the least.

BRING IT ON!!!! is all I can say at this point. I'm truly "Itching" to put this bad boy to work :cool: Not to mention it just looks extremely cool as well as being super functional. I'm like EVIL D I'm sitting here counting the days. And I hope it's sooner rather than later :)
I agree, JD. There’s nothing wrong with VG10 at all. It’s actually ideally suited in its properties for a knife like this, with its balance of fine edge taking, toughness, corrosion resistance and ‘sharpenability’.

I do understand that there will be complaints about that bladesteel though, which is why I suggested HAP40.

As this appears to be a Moki made model, we’re pretty much limited to the steels they are familiar with, and have already used - laminated ZDP189, HAP40, Superblue and monometal VG10.

I think you’re right, it did sound like VG10 had already been locked in.

If so, that’s fine by me, it’s an excellent steel. :)

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm

Cambertree wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:26 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:37 pm
benben wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:53 pm
Mini2white wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:40 am
I am really looking forward to this knife with a stainless blade. A Hap40 or Super blue etc would be a deal breaker for me since I want to carry it, and I don't carry these types of steels.
I feel just about 100% certain it’ll be stainless, I’ll be shocked if it’s not!
I"m pretty certain that VG-10 has already been decided on. Now if they elect to change it over to one of the Supersteels I would be all over it. But this knife is so awesome even with standard VG-10 blade steel. The times I've used it for hard work either in SE or PE I've never been disappointed. Sure you'll have to sharpen it more often than you would with one of the more exotic blade steels. But I'm kind of a sharpening fanatic as it is so it doesn't bother me in the least.

BRING IT ON!!!! is all I can say at this point. I'm truly "Itching" to put this bad boy to work :cool: Not to mention it just looks extremely cool as well as being super functional. I'm like EVIL D I'm sitting here counting the days. And I hope it's sooner rather than later :)
I agree, JD. There’s nothing wrong with VG10 at all. It’s actually ideally suited in its properties for a knife like this, with its balance of fine edge taking, toughness, corrosion resistance and ‘sharpenability’.

I do understand that there will be complaints about that bladesteel though, which is why I suggested HAP40.

As this appears to be a Moki made model, we’re pretty much limited to the steels they are familiar with, and have already used - laminated ZDP189, HAP40, Superblue and monometal VG10.

I think you’re right, it did sound like VG10 had already been locked in.

If so, that’s fine by me, it’s an excellent steel. :)
Say Cambertree I've talked to Brother BLOKE about this subject in the past and I've been wanting to address the issue of corrosion relating to VG-10 and now I want to ask for your take on it. I've never yet been to your great country but it most certainly is something I want to do before I depart the planet. And I'm not sure exactly where you live in Australia>> but I've heard that most of the continent has a relatively harsh environment as far as metals being subject to corrosion. In other words metals could corrode easily in most of the continent ( especially on the coastlines) is what I've heard other guys from Australia say in the past.

My ultimate question is "How Well Does VG-10 Hold Up Against Corrosion Specifically Where You Live? Here in the state of Missouri in the USA where I live we have a very humid environment in all four of the seasons. But in spite of that I've only ever had one VG-10 blade ever show any corrosion and only on one specific knife and I've probably got 12 to 14 "users" with VG-10.

My point is this>> I'm sure that for all the guys that wanted this C-60 in LC200N or H-1 for reasons of corrosion resistance >> I personally don't think they have anything to worry about unless they are in a very harsh salt water environment and they're prone to being careless with their knives. What do you say?

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JRinFL » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:40 am

I live in Florida, but not right on the coast. None of my knives in any steel accept for M4 has experienced any corrosion in the often brutal humidity here. VG-10, while not being a favorite of mine, has served well with no corrosion issues. I cannot think of a better Japanese all-around steel over VG-10, and I do not count myself a fan of the steel. Data point of one!
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Friends call me Jim. As do my enemies.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby benben » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:01 am

I'm completely fine with VG-10, I love the way sharpens and easily touches up. And even though I doubt it'll ever happen, I do really like Nerdlock's suggestion for XHP, that'd make a great all-around combination!

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:21 am

I'm also totally fine with VG10 especially with serrations. From the steels I've had the chance to use in SE (which unfortunately isn't very many) it's my top choice if I can't have H1 or LC. For once I think I'm more interested in the model itself than I am the steel it comes with.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Cambertree » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:20 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm
Say Cambertree I've talked to Brother BLOKE about this subject in the past and I've been wanting to address the issue of corrosion relating to VG-10 and now I want to ask for your take on it. I've never yet been to your great country but it most certainly is something I want to do before I depart the planet. And I'm not sure exactly where you live in Australia>> but I've heard that most of the continent has a relatively harsh environment as far as metals being subject to corrosion. In other words metals could corrode easily in most of the continent ( especially on the coastlines) is what I've heard other guys from Australia say in the past.

My ultimate question is "How Well Does VG-10 Hold Up Against Corrosion Specifically Where You Live? Here in the state of Missouri in the USA where I live we have a very humid environment in all four of the seasons. But in spite of that I've only ever had one VG-10 blade ever show any corrosion and only on one specific knife and I've probably got 12 to 14 "users" with VG-10.

My point is this>> I'm sure that for all the guys that wanted this C-60 in LC200N or H-1 for reasons of corrosion resistance >> I personally don't think they have anything to worry about unless they are in a very harsh salt water environment and they're prone to being careless with their knives. What do you say?
Hey JD, thanks for the question, and as always, you open up some excellent points for discussion, brother. :)

Well, you know if you can can ever make it over for a visit, I’d be honoured to give you a guided tour around my part of Australia. :)

I live in Southeast Australia, in the state of Victoria, out east of Melbourne.

The parallels aren’t exact, but think of maybe the Appalachian mountains, or the Pacific Northwest as a comparison, in terms of terrain.

But we have long, hot, dry summers here. At the moment we’re having a wet, squally Spring, as the storms come up from the Antarctic weather systems down south.

Bloke and Standy probably live in a more coastal environment than me. I’m a bit of a hillbilly. ;) :D

Most Australians - probably 80%, live in a thin band up along the east coast, and many have probably never been to the outback and vast interior deserts of our country.

So as far as VG10 goes, it’s probably in my top three steel grades among my knives, in terms of quantity of different knives. (The others would be simple carbon steels and 12C27.)

In addition to various Spydies, most of my handforged Japanese kitchen knives are VG10.

I’ve never had a problem with corrosion in that steel, JD.

I may possibly have had light orange surface spotting after leaving acidic fluid like lemon or orange juice on the blade, but it’s a rare occurrence, and generally wipes or strops straight off.

Another thing I wanted to say about VG10 is a point which is surprisingly seldom discussed - and that is, steels which are able to be ground to thin, acute edge angles will show a very marked increase in edge retention.

Cliff Stamp found that simply grinding a microbevel on a VG10 knife which was 2 1/2 degrees more acute than an otherwise identically ground S30V knife, produced the same edge retention on rope cutting.

https://youtu.be/OSDFLgq4EDs

This is a quote from Larrin, from his Maximising Edge Retention article:

‘Edge angle had by far the strongest effect on edge retention, much stronger than other effects such as PM vs ingot and the finish it was sharpened to.’

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/18/ ... retention/

My two favourite kitchen knives in VG10, a Shigeharu Funayuki and a Tanaka Nakiri, both from Kyoto bladesmiths, are 0.006” and 0.007” behind the edge respectively. And that’s after years of resharpening! The edge angle on both is probably 10dps or less.

So to get back to your question, no I’ve never had any problem with corrosion resistance in VG10 with extensive carry and use in different environments over the years.

Sure, if I’m heading down to the beach or fishing, I’ll take my Caribbean or Pac Salt or Waterway.

But otherwise, I prefer the edge behaviour of VG10 over H1 and LC200N.

And sure, I enjoy high carbide, high wear resistance steels as much as the next knife knut. But for those who dismiss VG10 because it’s not the latest and greatest shiny new ‘super’ steel on the market - maybe try grinding thinner and more acute edges on some of your lower carbide steels, and you could be pleasantly surprised by the jump in edge retention and cutting performance. ;) :)

And as you and others have noted, VG10 is a steel which performs very well in both plain edge and serrated edges.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:08 am

JRinFL wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:40 am
I live in Florida, but not right on the coast. None of my knives in any steel accept for M4 has experienced any corrosion in the often brutal humidity here. VG-10, while not being a favorite of mine, has served well with no corrosion issues. I cannot think of a better Japanese all-around steel over VG-10, and I do not count myself a fan of the steel. Data point of one!
I had some friends that lived in the Panhandle of Florida close to Ft. Walton Beach and I used to visit them often and when I went snorkeling on the Emerald Coast I would often take blades with me in the salt water. And I had taken serrated VG-10 blades with me on a couple of occasions.

Now I was careful to rinse my knives off with fresh water when I was done with my activities for the day and I never found any corrosion on any blade and there were days I would be snorkeling and looking for stuff in relatively shallow water ( 10 ft deep or less)>> there were days I would be in the water with Spyderco VG-10 knife in tow for up to 5 and 6 hours.

But with VG-10 blade steel as long as I would keep it rinsed off with fresh water I personally never had an issue. So what you guys are saying is totally consistent with what I've experienced.

The reason I really wanted to know how VG-10 held up to Australia's environment is because I've heard over the years that it can be very brutal at times. So Thank YOU Cambertree for sharing your first hand experiences with VG-10 where you are at.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:37 am

This is something I've been thinking about the past 3 days or so. One of you guys earlier in the thread brought up the possibility of having a belt sheath for the C-60 similar to what the BUCK knife company did with their legendary 110 Model. The more I think about it I'm beginning to wonder if that might be a good enticement for people that have never owned a C-60 Ayoob before. I think it would sure appeal to many deer hunters here in the USA.

Like I said earlier in the thread one of my old bosses back in 2012 had me get him the Sprint Run G-10 version of the C-60 and he swears it's been his best "hunter-folder" he has ever owned. I've tried to buy it back from him on a couple occasions and he just gives me a dirty look :D

Or maybe that might be a good marketing tool if this model ever made it back to the main line up. I was just kind of wondering what some of you guys might think about that?? >> especially with DEER SEASON coming up in many of the states here in the USA.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby bearrowland » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:32 pm

I think it's a great idea, and also a MOLLE style for the military and police.
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For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:13 pm

bearrowland wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:32 pm
I think it's a great idea, and also a MOLLE style for the military and police.
Hey thanks for the input!! And YES! I could go with a "Molle style" sheath and actually for this C-60 model it might be just a bit better than the traditional belt sheath I've had in mind.

And some company that makes sheaths I'm sure would have no problem making a sheath that would accommodate a unique design like the C-60 Ayoob. Or they could even make a sheath were a guy could implement the pocketclip to make deployment a bit quicker.

I've thought for years that the C-60 Ayoob has the potential to be a great outdoor knife.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby bearrowland » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:08 pm

Thanks JD! I'd bet that knife would be a great seller for the military/police market.
Barry
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Do what you can, where you are, with what you have! Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:09 pm

bearrowland wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:08 pm
Thanks JD! I'd bet that knife would be a great seller for the military/police market.
Well it would just make perfect sense for Spyderco to target market this model to Police and Military people as well as firefighters and other first responders. It was a guy who was a veteran policeman who designed it in the first place i.e. Mr. Massad Ayoob :cool: .

But don't get me wrong either because I also think that this C-60 Ayoob model also has ideal features to be a great outdoor knife as well as a great EDC folder for someone who does hard work for a living. It's a design that could be used in almost any situation.

Even when I was still in my tree business there wasn't one day that would go by to where I didn't need a good folder throughout the day. But YES!! I do agree that if this Sprint Run goes over good enough to where it might come back to the main line up it would be great for police, military and other first responders to check out the C-60 Ayoob model as their primary EDC.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby sal » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:31 am

Hi JD,

Looks looks we're moving forward on the Sprint. The maker will modify the tooling to accept a 4 way hourglass clip. G-10 scales to be made on the US. We need to come up with a ratio of plain edge to serrated edge. Maybe a poll?

I really don't want to make a pouch for it. Defeats the purpose of the clip, which was designed to eliminate the pouch. Maybe some aftermarket folks can make one for those that are interested?

sal

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Enactive » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:32 am

Yeah, now!

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby p_atrick » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:37 am

Sal,

That's great news. I look forward to this model.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby nerdlock » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:45 am

sal wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:31 am
Hi JD,

Looks looks we're moving forward on the Sprint. The maker will modify the tooling to accept a 4 way hourglass clip. G-10 scales to be made on the US.

Hi Sal,

Even if just for this, many of us are very happy that you have considered those who favor tip-up carry. I know it's not an easy compromise to alter a makers' design especially with someone as esteemed in the industry like Massad. Thank you.

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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Monty » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:25 pm

Put me down for two serrated! With the lack of serrated Sprints I haven't had to chase much and deal with the craziness therein, I hope these are made in great enough numbers they can be purchased without paying the secondhand scalper prices.


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