C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Dazen
Member
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:38 am
Location: Texas U.S.A. Earth

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Dazen » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:36 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:57 am
Dazen wrote: Are we still talking about G10? This is a Japanese model and with G10 this is going to be $350 or more, and with VG10 I don’t know if this will move at that price. If the steel was upgraded it might make this more enticing to people outside this forum to pay the premium for Japanese G10.

My vote would be get some AEB-L in their hands and make everyone WANT to try SE AEB-L in the C-60. Of course Burgundy G10!
Are you talking msrp? Because almost all the g10 japanese spydercos I can think of are around the 180 to 220 dollar street price range. Regardless of vg10 or s30v.
Yes MSRP. Just look at the Chinook 4 G10 S30V: MSRP $345, street price $242
“Stop buying your kids what you never had and start teaching them what you never knew!”

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 20783
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:57 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:57 am
Dazen wrote: Are we still talking about G10? This is a Japanese model and with G10 this is going to be $350 or more, and with VG10 I don’t know if this will move at that price. If the steel was upgraded it might make this more enticing to people outside this forum to pay the premium for Japanese G10.

My vote would be get some AEB-L in their hands and make everyone WANT to try SE AEB-L in the C-60. Of course Burgundy G10!
Are you talking msrp? Because almost all the g10 japanese spydercos I can think of are around the 180 to 220 dollar street price range. Regardless of vg10 or s30v.
Yeah I was going to say I've never paid over like $175 at the most for any of my Japan made units. When I got my two C-60, Sprint Run models with the G-10 handle I didn't pay over $145 each for them. Now I realize that was back in 2011 or thereabout. But they can certainly make a G-10 handled folder a lot cheaper than $350. Unless things have changed radically and I'm not aware of those changes.

I know for a fact that none of those fairly recent HAP-40 Japan made Spyders cost anything like that. I sure hope prices haven't exploded to that level.

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JRinFL » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:33 am

If Japanese G10 is going to be so expensive, all the more reason to not use any steel beyond VG10. The Japanese have long experience with it so there should be no extra charges added as it is a normal material for them. Plus, there is no added shipping charges for moving tons of steel to Japan as it is produced locally. That part of the reason why the S30V models were more expensive. There is no free lunch.
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 20783
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:06 am

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:33 am
If Japanese G10 is going to be so expensive, all the more reason to not use any steel beyond VG10. The Japanese have long experience with it so there should be no extra charges added as it is a normal material for them. Plus, there is no added shipping charges for moving tons of steel to Japan as it is produced locally. That part of the reason why the S30V models were more expensive. There is no free lunch.
I see what you're saying "JR" but I seriously doubt if that's the case. I think the one Brother who said that a Japan made, G-10 handled knife is in the $300 plus range just got some bad information. Because I've been in this game for over 20 years now and I own a lot of Japan made Spyders and I've never paid anything close to that for any of my Japan made Spyders>> heck I've never even paid anywhere near that for any of my GOLDEN, CO USA Earth made Spyderco models.

Oh I'm sure there might be a couple of really high priced models made in Japan but most of them aren't in that price range>> but that would be the exception and not the average price by a long shot. Also it probably wouldn't cost any more to use blade steels like LC200N, HAP-40 or most other trendy blade steels than it would to use VG-10.

But we need to move on from VG-10 if we can. Making an upgraded version of the C-60 is kind of the purpose of Sprint Runs to begin with. We can put our heads together and get this done I'm certain of it.

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JRinFL » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:12 am

VG-10 and HAP-40 are Japanese made steels, the rest would need to be shipped to Japan, AFAIK. That increases costs as neither the maker nor Spyderco are going to eat that cost. Is there a better Japanese steel than VG-10 while not being as rust prone as HAP-40? I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what's out there. BTW, I like HAP-40 a lot, but I would not want it in this knife.
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.

User avatar
p_atrick
Member
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Boston Area

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby p_atrick » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:33 am

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:12 am
Is there a better Japanese steel than VG-10 while not being as rust prone as HAP-40?
I am sure there are plenty, but COS and SRS-13 come to mind.

COS is considered to be an upgraded VG-10. Spyderco made a mule in 2011 in COS. So they have some experience with this steel. I have no idea what Spyderco thinks of this steel. If they really liked it, wouldn't they have had a sprint run in it?

SRS-13 is being kicked around, and a mule is planned for the future. I'm sure Spyderco would want to do some testing before releasing a knife in this steel.

If you don't go with a "well known" steel, wouldn't you have to wait longer to see this knife come to market? Would you rather wait longer to get a different steel, or get it sooner with VG-10/S30V.

User avatar
Dazen
Member
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:38 am
Location: Texas U.S.A. Earth

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Dazen » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:34 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:06 am
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:33 am
If Japanese G10 is going to be so expensive, all the more reason to not use any steel beyond VG10. The Japanese have long experience with it so there should be no extra charges added as it is a normal material for them. Plus, there is no added shipping charges for moving tons of steel to Japan as it is produced locally. That part of the reason why the S30V models were more expensive. There is no free lunch.
I see what you're saying "JR" but I seriously doubt if that's the case. I think the one Brother who said that a Japan made, G-10 handled knife is in the $300 plus range just got some bad information. Because I've been in this game for over 20 years now and I own a lot of Japan made Spyders and I've never paid anything close to that for any of my Japan made Spyders>> heck I've never even paid anywhere near that for any of my GOLDEN, CO USA Earth made Spyderco models.

Oh I'm sure there might be a couple of really high priced models made in Japan but most of them aren't in that price range>> but that would be the exception and not the average price by a long shot. Also it probably wouldn't cost any more to use blade steels like LC200N, HAP-40 or most other trendy blade steels than it would to use VG-10.

But we need to move on from VG-10 if we can. Making an upgraded version of the C-60 is kind of the purpose of Sprint Runs to begin with. We can put our heads together and get this done I'm certain of it.

JD, as I said, I meant MSRP is over $300, and with any special steel could send this knife north to $350 MSRP. There are not many G10 Japanese models that are under $300 MSRP. Everyone can figure out what they are going to actually pay; retail,OpFocus or overseas.

All I’m saying is if they are going to make another knife with G10 in Japan and the MSRP is above $300 lets make it with something other than VG10 so it sells well outside of this forum.

Also, it seems like Ti and CF are just about as expensive in Japan as well.
“Stop buying your kids what you never had and start teaching them what you never knew!”

twinboysdad
Member
Posts: 2993
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby twinboysdad » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:02 pm

VG10 is so much better than it gets credit for

benben
Member
Posts: 1005
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: Gastonia, North Carolina.

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby benben » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:57 pm

twinboysdad wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:02 pm
VG10 is so much better than it gets credit for
Agreed!

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 20783
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:59 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:52 am
JRinFL wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:02 am
Evil D wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:47 am
Seems like it would be a good opportunity for Spy27 and just go with that navy blue they're already using for those knives.
I would have zero complaints about that.

It would actually excite me even more because I'd like to try Spy27 in SE.
That makes two of us that would love to test drive "Spy27 in SE. And you would have to think they might have had the properties in mind being that Spyderco does so many blades in SE??

I'm wondering if "Spy27" might be like VG-10 and ATS-55 and perform nicely in both edge types. I kind of suspect that might be the case.

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 20783
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:03 am

twinboysdad wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:02 pm
VG10 is so much better than it gets credit for
And I'm not at all disagreeing with that either. The main reason I would like to see them do a Sprint Run of the C-60 Ayoob in something other than VG-10 is because the first two issues of this great model were both done in VG-10 and I think most people would like to try something different for a change.

Isn't that kind of one of the objectives of a Sprint Run of any model to somewhat tweak and improve it as you go along?

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 20783
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 am

Dazen wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:34 am
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:06 am
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:33 am
If Japanese G10 is going to be so expensive, all the more reason to not use any steel beyond VG10. The Japanese have long experience with it so there should be no extra charges added as it is a normal material for them. Plus, there is no added shipping charges for moving tons of steel to Japan as it is produced locally. That part of the reason why the S30V models were more expensive. There is no free lunch.
I see what you're saying "JR" but I seriously doubt if that's the case. I think the one Brother who said that a Japan made, G-10 handled knife is in the $300 plus range just got some bad information. Because I've been in this game for over 20 years now and I own a lot of Japan made Spyders and I've never paid anything close to that for any of my Japan made Spyders>> heck I've never even paid anywhere near that for any of my GOLDEN, CO USA Earth made Spyderco models.

Oh I'm sure there might be a couple of really high priced models made in Japan but most of them aren't in that price range>> but that would be the exception and not the average price by a long shot. Also it probably wouldn't cost any more to use blade steels like LC200N, HAP-40 or most other trendy blade steels than it would to use VG-10.

But we need to move on from VG-10 if we can. Making an upgraded version of the C-60 is kind of the purpose of Sprint Runs to begin with. We can put our heads together and get this done I'm certain of it.

JD, as I said, I meant MSRP is over $300, and with any special steel could send this knife north to $350 MSRP. There are not many G10 Japanese models that are under $300 MSRP. Everyone can figure out what they are going to actually pay; retail,OpFocus or overseas.

All I’m saying is if they are going to make another knife with G10 in Japan and the MSRP is above $300 lets make it with something other than VG10 so it sells well outside of this forum.

Also, it seems like Ti and CF are just about as expensive in Japan as well.
OK I kind of see what you are saying and I somewhat agree with you now that the dust has settled so to speak. But isn't every Spyderco model high as a kite in their initial, opening MSRP?? Most of my Spyders ( even the ones I've gotten new) I doubt if there is even more than one or two that I paid over half of what the original MSRP was at the time.

And the other point I was making is that I'm sure that with an older/classic model like this C-60 I'm almost certain we can get a Sprint Run of the C-60 for less than the $350 price range. However I'll admit I could be wrong too because there have been several new models that have sold for far more than I would have figured. We'll just have to wait and see I guess :)

User avatar
Dazen
Member
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:38 am
Location: Texas U.S.A. Earth

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Dazen » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:40 am

We will have to wait and see. I just see a lot of the Japan G10 models on clearance right now, from what I presume is lack of sales due to the high cost for what you get. The Opus ($218), Lil’ Temperance 3 ($211) and D’Allara 3 ($195) are all on Spyderco’s site, and others, on special/closeout. They are all great designs, I just think the price alone was the deterrent. In the end I, and probably Spyderco, don’t want to see the Ayoob go the same route. If they can make this cheaper that would be great, but I fear that using VG-10 may not appeal to anyone outside of our community.

One more idea: If the knife is going to retail in low $200’s, make it in linerless Titanium to keep in line with the original aluminum and go with H1. No need to worry about liners, it’s a salt knife and awesome SE as well. This would make a C-60 return really something special. Look at the Ti/Damascus Endura for comparison.
“Stop buying your kids what you never had and start teaching them what you never knew!”

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JRinFL » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:54 am

Dazen wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:40 am
One more idea: If the knife is going to retail in low $200’s, make it in linerless Titanium to keep in line with the original aluminum and go with H1. No need to worry about liners, it’s a salt knife and awesome SE as well. This would make a C-60 return really something special. Look at the Ti/Damascus Endura for comparison.
This would be awesome for sure, however it would hover around the $300 mark street price as there would be new engineering costs, plus titanium has skyrocketed in price from what I read.

It would be great to get some feed back from Mas and Sal on this one.
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.

User avatar
sal
Member
Posts: 14493
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby sal » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:28 pm

Our first challenge to overcome was to find out if the original maker still has the tooling and can make the run. We just heard back that they can do it. Now we'll need to see if they can make it in screw construction without needing new tooling.

This maker has not worked with any non Japanese steel, so VG-10 is still the easiest to make it happen. We'll skeletonize the liners to reduce weight. If we can get a color nailed down, I can move.

There is also an exclusive request for an Ayoob and they're waiting to see what we do first. So there could be 2 Ayoob's down the road.

So if we think VG-10, skeletonized liners, screw construction, we need a color for G-10, or any other requests/suggestions for a handle material ???

sal

argyle1812
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby argyle1812 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:36 pm

I cant wait for this. G10 works for me. Preferably any color but black.

PSquared
Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:44 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby PSquared » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:51 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:28 pm
Our first challenge to overcome was to find out if the original maker still has the tooling and can make the run. We just heard back that they can do it. Now we'll need to see if they can make it in screw construction without needing new tooling.

This maker has not worked with any non Japanese steel, so VG-10 is still the easiest to make it happen. We'll skeletonize the liners to reduce weight. If we can get a color nailed down, I can move.

There is also an exclusive request for an Ayoob and they're waiting to see what we do first. So there could be 2 Ayoob's down the road.

So if we think VG-10, skeletonized liners, screw construction, we need a color for G-10, or any other requests/suggestions for a handle material ???

sal
This is both encouraging and confusing. I’m assuming (big mistake I realize) that the maker is Moki based on the shape of the “Y” on the tangs of Ayoobs I’ve seen photos of and G Sakai has used non-Japanese steel. Is there a third Japanese maker? If it is Moki rather than a 3rd maker, they can make an Ayoob sprint but not the new Caly 3.5 LWT??

It gives me hope that the future Japanese made knives are not all going to be FRN and that G10 (and hopefully other scale materials) are still possible at realistic pricing out of Japan.

benben
Member
Posts: 1005
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: Gastonia, North Carolina.

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby benben » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:02 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:28 pm
Our first challenge to overcome was to find out if the original maker still has the tooling and can make the run. We just heard back that they can do it. Now we'll need to see if they can make it in screw construction without needing new tooling.

This maker has not worked with any non Japanese steel, so VG-10 is still the easiest to make it happen. We'll skeletonize the liners to reduce weight. If we can get a color nailed down, I can move.

There is also an exclusive request for an Ayoob and they're waiting to see what we do first. So there could be 2 Ayoob's down the road.

So if we think VG-10, skeletonized liners, screw construction, we need a color for G-10, or any other requests/suggestions for a handle material ???

sal
That's awesome news Sal, thank you!

Dark gray, dark blue, OD green, Burgundy, heck I'll still order a black G-10 one! Come on guys, let's nail down a color!

My only design change request is to make the opening hole larger, on the one I have there's plenty of room around the hole to make that happen.

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby JRinFL » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:14 pm

If someone has the time and can put in the effort to keep it moving along, they can make a new post with a poll attached for color choices.

Thank you Sal. I have two now, and it looks like I will add at least one more because this kind of response to customer wishes deserves to be rewarded.

"So if we think VG-10, skeletonized liners, screw construction, we need a color for G-10, or any other requests/suggestions for a handle material ???" -Sal
I'm good with G-10 in most colors (no Black or Pink or pastels), micarta rough finish if I can dream.
Not every choiless knife needs a choil, not every knife with a choil needs it removed. Not every big knife needs a Lil' companion. Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes. Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date.

User avatar
Dazen
Member
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:38 am
Location: Texas U.S.A. Earth

Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

Postby Dazen » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 pm

My vote would be be:

Burgundy G10
Peel-Ply/Smooth Carbon Fiber
Linerless Titanium

Sal, can you elaborate on the price differences between these with this maker?

I too would like to see the hole a bit bigger and a four way clip.
“Stop buying your kids what you never had and start teaching them what you never knew!”


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bbturbodad, BigTinVA, Bing [Bot], BornIn1500, brianeberhart, chops688, Google [Bot], joeyviner, Johncjeff, MFlovejp, ncspyderfan, RustyIron, vivi and 38 guests