Watu vs. Deka

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Lucabrasi
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Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:33 pm

I understand I’m on Spyderco forums. However I get the feeling there are collectors here with vastly more experience than myself.

Anyone used the Hogue Deka, specifically the clip point? I’m spiraling here, I just picked up a used Mini Crooked River that I love but can’t call off the search. I have 7 spydercos, I’m clearly a fan, including of the carbon fiber laminates. 20cv in the Watu and slicer grind call to me.

However I just discovered the Hogue. Also 20cv, thin grind, roughly same blade length and half an oz. lighter. US made, which I admit carries some modest weight with me. My favorite blades take up minimal space in the pocket yet pack a good amount of cutting edge.

And for $140 it really doesn’t seem bad. I obviously shouldn’t get anything. But since that seems not in the cards, what do folks think of this comparison.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

dan31
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby dan31 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:08 am

The Watu is exceptional. If you looking at a thin grind edc, it is hard to beat. Build and action are fantastic.

Sumdumguy
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:28 am

What's a "hogue"? Is that like a hoagie?

If so, they are delicious and the Watu will cut it just fine!

:p :D

TomAiello
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby TomAiello » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:01 am

I have an emotional fondness for Hogue. They were located where I grew up, making (almost unbelievably today) gun parts in California. I'm also very glad they picked up Doug Ritter's collaborations when Benchmade discontinued their relationship with him. Doug's work with Knife Rights is unique and valuable to the knife world.

Therefore, the answer has to be "get both". :)

JuPaul
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby JuPaul » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:16 am

The Hogue Deka is one of the few non-spydie folders that has tempted me in the past year or so. I really love the lines of the design and the g-mascus scales. I haven't pulled the trigger for two reasons: first, I greatly prefer the spydie hole to a thumb stud, and second, I've heard that it's easy to clip the meat of your hand with the tip of the knife when you go to unlock and close it. But depending on how you hold it to close it this might be a non-issue for you.

The Watu, on the other hand, is incredibly unique, and by all accounts a very slicey knife. I don't love black scales, but if someone starts making aftermarket scales I'll be very tempted to get one.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

Lucabrasi
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:52 am

Thanks for the responses. I’ve heard and seen that issue with the tip on the Hogue. It initially gave me pause, but when I watched the reviewer describe how it happened, I grabbed my Benchmades and I don’t hold the knife in a position where that will be an issue when opening and closing. Maybe I’ll be wrong, but after all the talk with that on the Ikuchi, it is among my absolute favorites to carry.

By the way, is this bad form on this forum to call attention to other makers? I’m pretty new to this forum and after thinking about it I’m not sure what the protocol is here.

In the long game I probably will end up with both. So I guess it’s a matter of what is first.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

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sal
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby sal » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:18 am

Hi Lucabrasi,

Hogue makes good knives and Allen is a brilliant designer.

Is that an Axis?

sal

Lucabrasi
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:00 am

They call it the Able lock but it seems exactly the same as the axis. YouTube wisdom is suggesting they use heavier gauge omega springs, but I’m just being a parrot, no idea if that’s true.

Just an interesting lightweight design. The Watu is calling to me las well, obviously.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

soc_monki
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby soc_monki » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:06 am

Get both, and throw on a Ritter RSK as well and support Doug and Knife Rights! I used my Ritter yesterday trimming tree branches in the yard. Very comfortable, and that 20cv blade took it all in stride, stayed sharp, and I touched it up this morning with my spyderco medium and fine ceramic stones.

I have been using my shaman out in the yard, but decided to give it a break. Have been getting a little rusting on the stop pin due to how much I've been sweating, so I've got some tuf glide coming and will take care of that problem.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite
Benchmade : 810-1401 Contego, 15080-2 Crooked River, 15080-Custom Crooked River, 560BK-1 Super Freek, 15085 Mini Crooked River, 15085-Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2 Campanion
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

Lucabrasi
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:13 am

Ritter is heavy for my tastes. Though again seems like a great value. I suppose it is yet to be seen how well they are heat treating their 20cv, but most anecdotes seem to be positive, as does yours.

Generally when doing the type of work you’re describing I use a fix blade, as I have an unjustifiably expensive collection of those also.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

soc_monki
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby soc_monki » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:06 am

Lucabrasi wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:13 am
Ritter is heavy for my tastes. Though again seems like a great value. I suppose it is yet to be seen how well they are heat treating their 20cv, but most anecdotes seem to be positive, as does yours.

Generally when doing the type of work you’re describing I use a fix blade, as I have an unjustifiably expensive collection of those also.
I've tried to buy fixed blades, but I really have no use for them. Anything I need to do I can do with my folders, and if I need something super durable I pull out my cold steel ad10. If I need to chop something I have a hatchet.

They also have a mini ritter... And the 20cv seems as good as any other 20cv/m390 steel I've used from spyderco or benchmade. I know that one YouTube tester (outpost76 I think) said they had trouble with edge retention of it, but I don't find that to be the case. Although Im not just cutting cardboard, and many factors go into those tests.

Then again lots of people claim zero tolerance's 20cv is soft, but I don't see that either. And can't find any hrc tests of it to back it up. My own use says it's as good as any other. I use it, and probably touch it up way too much (I like pulling a knife out and doing the arm hair test!). Most of the time even if it won't shave hair it's still plenty sharp enough, I guess I'm just ocd!

Anyway, I went on a tangent! It happens sometimes!
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite
Benchmade : 810-1401 Contego, 15080-2 Crooked River, 15080-Custom Crooked River, 560BK-1 Super Freek, 15085 Mini Crooked River, 15085-Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2 Campanion
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

Notsurewhy
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Notsurewhy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 am

I gotta say, USA made 3.25in 20cv knife with machined g10 scales for $140 is a pretty astonishing value. Hogue could shake things up a bit if they keep that kind of aggressive pricing and start expanding the lineup.

Lucabrasi
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:27 am

[/quote]

I've tried to buy fixed blades, but I really have no use for them. Anything I need to do I can do with my folders, and if I need something super durable I pull out my cold steel ad10. If I need to chop something I have a hatchet.

They also have a mini ritter... And the 20cv seems as good as any other 20cv/m390 steel I've used from spyderco or benchmade. I know that one YouTube tester (outpost76 I think) said they had trouble with edge retention of it, but I don't find that to be the case. Although Im not just cutting cardboard, and many factors go into those tests.

Then again lots of people claim zero tolerance's 20cv is soft, but I don't see that either. And can't find any hrc tests of it to back it up. My own use says it's as good as any other. I use it, and probably touch it up way too much (I like pulling a knife out and doing the arm hair test!). Most of the time even if it won't shave hair it's still plenty sharp enough, I guess I'm just ocd!

Anyway, I went on a tangent! It happens sometimes!
[/quote]


Yeah, I mean I don’t have much use for them either. Just like I don’t need more than one folder. Or more than one Gyuto in the kitchen. Or more than one straight razor. I’m neither Rambo, nor on a construction site, nor a professional chef, nor am I living in 1748. But I like them. And I really like sharpening. So have them I do.

I have 20cv from Kershaw and Benchmade, and it wouldn’t shock me if both were a bit soft. But still perform well, and polish up nicely. I notice a difference on the stones from my 204p Southard.

But doesn’t concern me. Just hoping Hogue goes more Spyderco I’m the heat treatment realm.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

TomAiello
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Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby TomAiello » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:07 pm

Lucabrasi wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:00 am
They call it the Able lock but it seems exactly the same as the axis. YouTube wisdom is suggesting they use heavier gauge omega springs, but I’m just being a parrot, no idea if that’s true.
It's true. I actually got curious and disassembled one to see.

It's essentially Hogue's effort to not get sued by Benchmade over the lock, I think.

Lucabrasi
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:36 pm

I think Benchmade’s patent expired, so it’s open season.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

Lucabrasi
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Posts: 37
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby Lucabrasi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:37 pm

I think it’s Hogue trying to overcome whatever image of fragility the axis lock has. Real or imagined.
Current Spyderco: Native 5 LW s35vn; Delica zdp; Caly 3.5 zdp/CF; Chapparel FRN cts xhp; Southard; Kapara s30v; Ikuchi s30v

Passed Spyderco: Endura zdp; Manix s110v; Paramilitary 2 s30v

soc_monki
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby soc_monki » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:01 pm

The patent on the lock expired, so anyone can use it now. However the AXIS trademark is Benchmades only, so others have to call it something else, such as Hogue calling it the ABLE lock. It is pretty much the same, and the only difference I can tell is Hogue leaves a lot more room for wear. I doubt it will ever be an issue on a Benchmade.

I haven't had a single omega spring break yet, and I do fidget with the knives a bit. The Hogue springs feel the same as a Benchmade Griptilian as well.

Both quality knives. My Ritter is off center and I can't fix it, but the knife functions fine so its not a big deal. Centered in the open position though, so it's all good.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite
Benchmade : 810-1401 Contego, 15080-2 Crooked River, 15080-Custom Crooked River, 560BK-1 Super Freek, 15085 Mini Crooked River, 15085-Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2 Campanion
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

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sal
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby sal » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:32 pm

Seems like quite a few companies are jumping on the Axis design.

sal

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p_atrick
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby p_atrick » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:39 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:32 pm
Seems like quite a few companies are jumping on the Axis design.

sal
Sal,

Does that keep you up at night, thinking about when the patent for the compression lock expires?

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sal
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Re: Watu vs. Deka

Postby sal » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:11 am

Hi P_atrick,

We always are watching, planning and inventing. We just got another patent on a new lock (Roto-Wedge).

sal


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