Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

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JD Spydo
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Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#1

Post by JD Spydo »

Yeah I know I've ran other threads similar to this one in the past. But the reason I explore this subject about once a year is that we are getting a few new members here on the Forum and I like to find out what new uses some of you guys discover that Spyderco Hawkbill folders are good for. Also I'm constantly wanting to discover new uses for SE & PE Hawkbill blades both. Myself I've been very limited in what I've found PE Hawkbills to be efficient at.

Spyderco most definitely has a strong market share in the sector of Hawkbill folders ( PE & SE both). It's only been in the past two years I've seen an uptick in "Lawn & Garden" uses for serrated Hawkbills. I've also seen an increase in people who use plain edged Hawkbills for their main EDC.

I would not want to do without any of my Spyderhawks and Harpy models. You all can also put the Reverse S style blades in this discussion as well. Because I am starting to hear about more and more guys carrying Reverse S blades in SE as their main EDC folder. OK let's talk about Spyderco's great Hawkbills in SE & PE?
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Evil D
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#2

Post by Evil D »

I think I'd like a PE Spyderhawk but I already know I strongly prefer the SE version. I'd buy one in PE for science.
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kennethsime
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#3

Post by kennethsime »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:59 pm
I think I'd like a PE Spyderhawk but I already know I strongly prefer the SE version. I'd buy one in PE for science.
I feel like "for science" is definitely my justification for buying models I haven't tried before.

Science funding has gotten out of control lately. :p
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#4

Post by Evil D »

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:26 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:59 pm
I think I'd like a PE Spyderhawk but I already know I strongly prefer the SE version. I'd buy one in PE for science.
I feel like "for science" is definitely my justification for buying models I haven't tried before.

Science funding has gotten out of control lately. :p



But Honeeeeyyyyy I need that FOR SCIEEEEENNNNCE!

🤣



I wonder if I tell her I really need it just to be cooler on the internet if she'd go with it?
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kennethsime
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#5

Post by kennethsime »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:52 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:26 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:59 pm
I think I'd like a PE Spyderhawk but I already know I strongly prefer the SE version. I'd buy one in PE for science.
I feel like "for science" is definitely my justification for buying models I haven't tried before.

Science funding has gotten out of control lately. :p



But Honeeeeyyyyy I need that FOR SCIEEEEENNNNCE!

🤣



I wonder if I tell her I really need it just to be cooler on the internet if she'd go with it?
Man if so she's a keeper. :D

On topic, I've been wondering this myself quite a bit. I ended up not ordering the H1 Hawkbill Dragonfly yet, but it's still on the list for the not-so-distant future. The Dragonfly seems like such a great platform for exploring different blade shapes.

I think I'll end up with the SE Hawkbill next. I wonder though, why you would choose PE over SE for cutting cordage and cardboard etc? It seems like the hawkbill is basically meant for slashing, and I feel like serrations "catch" better where the PE may slice or glide better.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Evil D
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#6

Post by Evil D »

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:09 pm
On topic, I've been wondering this myself quite a bit. I ended up not ordering the H1 Hawkbill Dragonfly yet, but it's still on the list for the not-so-distant future. The Dragonfly seems like such a great platform for exploring different blade shapes.

I think I'll end up with the SE Hawkbill next. I wonder though, why you would choose PE over SE for cutting cordage and cardboard etc? It seems like the hawkbill is basically meant for slashing, and I feel like serrations "catch" better where the PE may slice or glide better.



I really think a SE hawkbill is unmatched for pull cutting jobs. As you said, the curve of the blade combined with the serrations add up to amazing cutting power. Even if you don't really "hook" into the cut, the curve of the edge works to increase the pressure and leverage you're making into a cut. It almost forces your cutting motion into a slicing motion no matter how you move your hand. If you compare a hawkbill to a typical blade with lots of belly, they do literally the opposite as you draw the blade through material. If you've ever read Michael Janich's explanation of why a wharnie is great for self defense and slashing attacks, it's that same leverage action happening with other blade shapes, but the shape is either decreasing (belly) maintaining (wharnie) or increasing (hawkbill) the amount of leverage that's happening at the tip of the blade.



Man that got really convoluted. Just get one. I can't commit to carrying only a hawkbill because I find myself needing to stab/penetrate things too often, but I always have my Hawkfly with me. It's a fun little knife. This is also a blade type that I fully believe bigger is better, if you can find a Spyderhawk definitely jump on it. The Dragonfly is awesome because it performs so much above what a knife that size should be able to do, but the Spyderhawk is all that plus pretty much 2x as much blade and cutting power.
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JD Spydo
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#7

Post by JD Spydo »

The point you make about a serrated Hawkbill blade being much more advantageous is also the conclusion I've come to even long ago. But I still like to do these threads to see if anyone does have a very efficient use for plain edged Hawkbill blades.
I've been appointed to do some maintenance on our community garden that about 9 of us put together this past spring. I go out almost every evening to water it and I also take one of my SE Spyderhawks with me. Now I also take a nice, Swiss made pair of Felco pruners along with a couple of other Felco garden tools. But the Spyderhawk is now doing at least 70% of all the work I do on the garden. It prunes tomatoe plants so efficiently.

The only thing I found one of my PE Hawkbills really good at was to remove seeds from ripe persimmons. The persimmons here in Missouri usually get good and ripe about the 3rd week in October and I know where two trees are locally in some timber in a state park ( a lot of woods and timber). There is something about the curvature of my first generation, VG-10, blue handled Spyderhawk that just removes those seeds like nothing else I've ever tried. But other than that I just don't have a lot to say about PE Hawkbill blades. CAUTION!: Don't Ever Take A Bite Out Of A Green Persimmon>> you will regret it :eek:
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kennethsime
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#8

Post by kennethsime »

Interesting JD! I would think that pruning is one place where one might prefer a PE knife, as it's similar to carving. Do you actually prefer SE for pruning, or is it just what you happen to have on you? Are you using the SE as a saw, or more carving through the limbs?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
JD Spydo
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#9

Post by JD Spydo »

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:54 pm
Interesting JD! I would think that pruning is one place where one might prefer a PE knife, as it's similar to carving. Do you actually prefer SE for pruning, or is it just what you happen to have on you? Are you using the SE as a saw, or more carving through the limbs?
I thought that too when I first started using knives for some of my garden chores. But if you got your serrations razor sharp I've found that they can leave a really clean, uniform cut. But keeping SE blades sharp is what you got to have if you're going to use one for garden chores.

I discovered the virtues of the SE Spyderhawk all the way back to 2005 when one day I was working in a wetland project and I meant to take my SE Endura but I grabbed an SE, VG-10 Spyderhawk by mistake. It turned out to be one of the best mistakes I ever made. I was amazed at how cleanly it cut through vines, reeds and fibrous plants like CatTails and Yucca plants ( you know how tough those plants are) Since then I've really tested a lot of jobs on serrated Hawkbill blades>> with good success I might add.

But you are so right about keeping a serrated blade super sharp for garden use. I usually touch my up with 701 honing stones about every two to three uses and it's working well for me.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#10

Post by kennethsime »

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the many uses of a well-sharpened serrated edge. I'm still overcoming my own personal bias against "liquor store" serrations.

Is there anything you think you might prefer a PE Hawkbill for?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#11

Post by Cambertree »

Walking less travelled forest paths here, there are often thickets of blackberry vines in some parts, which grow over the path.

I like to use the Tasman Salt SE with wrist flicks to clear the way for myself and other walkers.

I've used many different models for the task, but the hawkbilled Tasman is the best at it - so much so that I'll take it along just for that task, if I happen to be EDCing another knife.

It's also about the only knife I'll readily use to dig into the ground to grub out thistle and weed roots.

I remember looking at an exhibit of Iron Age edged tools and weapons in the Belfast Museum, and a small hawkbill about the size of the Tasman and a leaf shaped blade were prominent among the everyday cutting tools.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#12

Post by JD Spydo »

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 pm
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the many uses of a well-sharpened serrated edge. I'm still overcoming my own personal bias against "liquor store" serrations.

Is there anything you think you might prefer a PE Hawkbill for?
The serrated blades on knives you get at convenience stores, flea markets and in your case "liquor stores" are so inferior compared to those made by premium cutlery companies. Spyderco most definitely has the market cornered on serrated blades. Nobody else even makes a half hearted attempt to compete with them.

Proper sharpening of cutlery (especially premium cutlery) is thee key to high performance. Oh yes you've also got to have premium, high quality materials as well. And Spyderco has no real competition in the Hawkbill sector of the market as well.

When you use well made tools on any job you immediately see the vast difference in tools of every price range.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#13

Post by Evil D »

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 pm

Is there anything you think you might prefer a PE Hawkbill for?


In my mind, a hawkbill is basically one big serration, the hooking action is still there, but the edge itself is less aggressive. When I was a kid I did carry and use a PE hawkbill linoleum knife so I'm sorta familiar with what to expect, but I'd try a larger version just because it's the only blade/edge combo I don't have. I'm not sure what use I'd prefer it over a SE hawkbill, it's more just a curiosity thing.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#14

Post by JD Spydo »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:26 am
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 pm

Is there anything you think you might prefer a PE Hawkbill for?


In my mind, a hawkbill is basically one big serration, the hooking action is still there, but the edge itself is less aggressive. When I was a kid I did carry and use a PE hawkbill linoleum knife so I'm sorta familiar with what to expect, but I'd try a larger version just because it's the only blade/edge combo I don't have. I'm not sure what use I'd prefer it over a SE hawkbill, it's more just a curiosity thing.
I don't really see a Hawkbill being one big serration. Because my SE Spyderhawk models for instance is in some ways are more like a saw than many of my serrated standard design models are. There are so many jobs that I just get a lot more leverage using a serrated Hawkbill blade. For me anything smaller than a Harpy, Tasman or Merlin just doesn't get the job done in most cases.

I will say this that so far with all the times I've used Hawkbill blades the serrated models are far more effective and useful that the plain edged Hawkbills are. When you say "Hooking Action" are you referring to "Pull Cutting"? Because that's what I think of more than anything associated with Hawkbill blades.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#15

Post by Evil D »

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:47 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:26 am
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 pm

Is there anything you think you might prefer a PE Hawkbill for?


In my mind, a hawkbill is basically one big serration, the hooking action is still there, but the edge itself is less aggressive. When I was a kid I did carry and use a PE hawkbill linoleum knife so I'm sorta familiar with what to expect, but I'd try a larger version just because it's the only blade/edge combo I don't have. I'm not sure what use I'd prefer it over a SE hawkbill, it's more just a curiosity thing.
I don't really see a Hawkbill being one big serration. Because my SE Spyderhawk models for instance is in some ways are more like a saw than many of my serrated standard design models are. There are so many jobs that I just get a lot more leverage using a serrated Hawkbill blade. For me anything smaller than a Harpy, Tasman or Merlin just doesn't get the job done in most cases.

I will say this that so far with all the times I've used Hawkbill blades the serrated models are far more effective and useful that the plain edged Hawkbills are. When you say "Hooking Action" are you referring to "Pull Cutting"? Because that's what I think of more than anything associated with Hawkbill blades.


Look at the shape of a hawkbill.....it's a big negative angled curve..just like a serration. A SE hawkbill is one big serration filled with smaller serrations. Yeah it's imaginative, you gotta look at it with one eye closed and squinted. ;)

The hook action is....well it's when the blade hooks into what you're cutting. Yeah, pull cutting, but you can pull cut with any blade shape, only a hawkbill hooks into what you're cutting.

I get the comparison with a saw, but I also have stopped using that comparison because too many people are stuck on that idea and that's part of why they think serrations are only good for rope or sailors. In reality serrations and a saw blade have almost nothing in common, the way they cut things couldn't be more different since a saw cuts off and removes small pieces of material each time the teeth move across the surface, while a SE blade teeth all work together to make the same cut and don't remove material. It seems to me most people who are against serrations don't understand that they can indeed slice things, because they're stuck comparing them to a saw.


What you DO see when a serrated blade cuts is a big increase in pressure happening every time a point moves across what you're cutting, so if the amount of pressure from your hand never increases, the amount of pressure at the edge DOES increase through mechanical advantage. The top of the teeth become high pressure points and cuts more aggressively than the curves of the scallops. This is part of what makes them cut so much more aggressively than plain edge.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#16

Post by JD Spydo »

Oh I see where it looks like a big scallop all right. But to me it sure doesn't perform like a single serration. But what I do really like about Hawkbills and Reverse S along with Recurve blades is that they are almost always at an angle of attack with what you may be cutting.

When you pull cut with a Hawkbill the negative angle becomes your best friend. Hawkbill blades aren't good for all cutting jobs but what they are good for they perform very well IMO. They are most definitely a companion blade along side a folder of conventional design.

I'm now curious as to what a Hawkbill with a full flat grind would perform like?
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#17

Post by James Y »

A PE hawkbill would not have the level of ‘grab’ that a SE hawkbill does.

Looking at nature, if you look at sharks’ teeth, they are serrated both on the outward curve (‘belly’) of the tooth, and the inward curved (‘hawkbill-type) side of each tooth. They would not function for their purpose as efficiently if the edges of the teeth were non-serrated.

Jim
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#18

Post by Bill1170 »

I need to try my Matriarch in the garden. My only hawkbill knife is a Ladybug Salt.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#19

Post by JD Spydo »

Bill1170 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 pm
I need to try my Matriarch in the garden. My only hawkbill knife is a Ladybug Salt.
I've said for years that if they would make a version of the Matriarch with a thicker blade that it would be an awesome knife to work with in a wide range of cutting jobs. Of course I would want it in SE instead of PE.

Now the Civilian is just a tad too big for me to want to do work with>> even though it is a brutal self defense weapon. I've always liked the Matriarch far better.

A utility version of the Matriarch with a thicker blade would be one I would love to try to work with.
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Re: Hawkbill Uses: For PE & For SE?

#20

Post by Bill1170 »

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:35 am
Bill1170 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 pm
I need to try my Matriarch in the garden. My only hawkbill knife is a Ladybug Salt.
I've said for years that if they would make a version of the Matriarch with a thicker blade that it would be an awesome knife to work with in a wide range of cutting jobs. Of course I would want it in SE instead of PE.

Now the Civilian is just a tad too big for me to want to do work with>> even though it is a brutal self defense weapon. I've always liked the Matriarch far better.

A utility version of the Matriarch with a thicker blade would be one I would love to try to work with.
If the shape works out, I don’t see any need for a thicker Matriarch. It is optimized for drawing cuts, not chopping, twisting, or prying. Of course, I haven’t broken mine.

Edit 1: drawing and pressing cuts both.
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