Scarcity of CBBL

[Lucabrasi]

It can’t be this divided opinion that holds it back right. This is the Internet. Every opinion is divided. I’ve seen multiple threads here full of people who have a problem with compression locks. I’ve heard both here and elsewhere of people not buying a knife because of a backlock. I’m sure just about every locking mechanism has detractors and proponents. But I feel like as long as it is safe, and as long as there isn’t some mass consensus on its weaknesses, there are enough either proponents or apathetics to give it a run.

Spyderco seems to be a big believer in options and diversity in its lineup. And that’s an awesome thing.

[James Y]

It can’t be this divided opinion that holds it back right. This is the Internet. Every opinion is divided. I’ve seen multiple threads here full of people who have a problem with compression locks. I’ve heard both here and elsewhere of people not buying a knife because of a backlock. I’m sure just about every locking mechanism has detractors and proponents. But I feel like as long as it is safe, and as long as there isn’t some mass consensus on its weaknesses, there are enough either proponents or apathetics to give it a run.

Spyderco seems to be a big believer in options and diversity in its lineup. And that’s an awesome thing.

Very true. Every lock type has its fans and its critics. Even if two people are approximately the same size and build, with same or similar hand sizes, they may still have opinions that are 180 degrees different from each other on a certain lock type or knife size/model, etc. My thought is, if I don’t like a certain lock type, or a certain knife design doesn’t appeal to me, I simply won’t buy it. As Spyderco knives go, I personally don’t dislike any lock type, though I sometimes wonder about the compression lock’s ball detent, and how its integrity will hold up over the long term.

I suppose my favorite Spyderco lock is the back lock/mid-lock. But that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy knives with other lock types. In terms of operation, I haven’t had any difficulty or discomfort operating any of them with my medium-sized hands, But again, everybody is different.

Jim

[Wartstein]

Thanks folks, some reasonable hypotheses. I suppose I’m not sure why thickness of stock would be a limitation but certainly see how it might need to be a tall knife to fit the mechanism.

....

I was not precise enough when making this point: What I meant was:
One design limitation that might come with the CBBL is the overall thinness of the whole knife, not the blade stock.
So if one would want to design the thinnest possible folder: A backlock would probably the way to go (see Chaparral) while CBBL (and also comp lock and liner lock) require a bit more handle thickness.
Same is true for a "less tall as possible" knife /handle: I figure that this is where comp. lock and linerlock shine, while CBBL and also backlock to some degree require a "taller" handle to fit both lock and blade in there..

Just layman assumptions though...

[zhyla]

It can’t be this divided opinion that holds it back right.

I've got a design for a CBBL knife kind of half done. Having tried to design a knife around this I can offer my insights:

1. The cage is an injection molded part which requires significant volume to be cost effective. Because of this re-using the Manix 2 cage on other designs makes a lot of sense.

2. The Manix 2 cage has some design constraints. It's not suitable for small knives or thin knives. The width of the knife handle in particular needs to be pretty much identical to the Manix 2 for it to work.

3. The cage idea itself has some design constraints too. You need enough height and length for fingers to get a grip on the cage. Imagine trying to make something small like a Dragonfly or Chaparral with this giant cage. You also need enough room in the handle for a spring. You could design a cage around a smaller bearing but that spring might be as small as you'd want to go.

4. The spring needs a backstop. On the Manix 2 this is a backspacer. This is an extra part you don't need on a liner/compression lock so it just adds cost.

5. I don't know how they assemble Manix 2's in the factory, maybe they have some fixturing to make it straight forward, but I find reassembly of these to be finicky.

The CBBL is my favorite lock type by far. I'd like to see more designs with it.

[Wartstein]

It can’t be this divided opinion that holds it back right.

I've got a design for a CBBL knife kind of half done. Having tried to design a knife around this I can offer my insights:

1. The cage is an injection molded part which requires significant volume to be cost effective. Because of this re-using the Manix 2 cage on other designs makes a lot of sense.

2. The Manix 2 cage has some design constraints. It's not suitable for small knives or thin knives. The width of the knife handle in particular needs to be pretty much identical to the Manix 2 for it to work.

3. The cage idea itself has some design constraints too. You need enough height and length for fingers to get a grip on the cage. Imagine trying to make something small like a Dragonfly or Chaparral with this giant cage. You also need enough room in the handle for a spring. You could design a cage around a smaller bearing but that spring might be as small as you'd want to go.

4. The spring needs a backstop. On the Manix 2 this is a backspacer. This is an extra part you don't need on a liner/compression lock so it just adds cost.

5. I don't know how they assemble Manix 2's in the factory, maybe they have some fixturing to make it straight forward, but I find reassembly of these to be finicky.

The CBBL is my favorite lock type by far. I'd like to see more designs with it.

Thanks for the insight! So my layman assumptions luckily were not too far off...

[wrdwrght]

I’ve come to conclude that I’m lock-agnostic.

Any one that Spyderco offers will do, or, rather, I can make do with any one. And I have each kind (except the stop-lock). None is perfect (I could denigrate each); each is more than good enough (I could extoll each).

My one peccadillo regarding locks is that a blade not move vertically or laterally when locked. I might grumble about the Seki-City backlock (I have many), but the Golden one is golden, as are the other lock-types.

I think asking for a CBBL in any existing model (Manix2 aside) presumes knowledge that it can be done. I don’t have this knowledge, so will not ask, but I’m certainly open to new models having a CBBL. Eric?

[carrot]

I don’t really like the CBBL. I don’t hate it either.

Like Evil D said, it’s a little awkward to disengage because it must be pinched with both index finger and thumb to easily unlock.

The BBL is better. You can dig your thumb into the ball pit (!!!) to disengage the lock. The Dodo and D’allara 3 are great examples of the BBL. I would like to see more knives with the BBL, but I understand the ball being so big makes it tricky to design around.

I don’t like the Axis lock. The omega springs turn out to be a true weakness. However, the lock bar is easy to grab with just the thumb. The BBL removes the main weakness by using a coil spring which basically lasts forever compared to an omega spring. (Let’s not even think about torsion bars.)

I think that all of these locks are pretty good because they are a little harder to foul up with pocket lint than some other locks. They also have nice big open spaces around the locking mechanism that make it easier to wash up in the sink. Those are upsides.

Despite all this, I still love the Manix 2 Lightweight. It’s an example of a knife so good that it transcends its biggest flaw (the CBBL being hard to unlock). I have carried it quite a lot.