Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

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Red
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#21

Post by Red »

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The small ones are growing on me.
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Evil D
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#22

Post by Evil D »

For me it's less about size than it is about design. There are small knives that are designed well enough that they perform well above their size range. In some situations I'd take a Ladybug over some other brands full size knives because being bigger doesn't necessarily mean they perform better.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#23

Post by Cambertree »

The chopping and cutting tools made from flint and other stone types, which have been used for millions of years by hominids, were mostly around Dragonfly size or smaller.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldowan

To me the Dragonfly is a highly evolved version of those tools - in shape as well as size.

Ötzi the Iceman’s flint knife had about the same amount of cutting edge as the Dragonfly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ötzi

It’s by far, my most used Spyderco model.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#24

Post by RustyIron »

Cambertree wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:48 pm
The chopping and cutting tools made from flint and other stone types, which have been used for millions of years by hominids, were mostly around Dragonfly size or smaller.
You know why all the Australopithecines died off? Lycopene deficiency. No one would eat the gross Caprese salads that were prepared with blunt rocks.

But you know what? I've started carrying a Dragonfly as an experiment. It's summertime here, and if I'm not working, I'm wearing shorts. A Dragonfly is about the biggest knife that will fit in the bottom of a pocket without making an unsightly bulge. So Lucy might have carried the same size knife as me, but mine's sharper.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#25

Post by Abyss_Fish »

oddly I've done the opposite. I've migrated up from teeny knives to bigger and bigger. Although I think I might tap out at the manix, it's a bit much even for me. The spydiechef is my perfect size range I think.
Lightly insane.

Current spydie collection: Watu, Rhino, UKPK Salt G10 bladeswap, Yojimbo 2 Smooth G10 Cru-Wear, Manix lw “mystic” 20cv, SmallFly 2, Waterway, Ladybug k390, Caribbean
Current favorite steels: sg2/R2, lc200n/Z-FiNit, 3v
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Cambertree
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#26

Post by Cambertree »

RustyIron wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:26 pm
You know why all the Australopithecines died off? Lycopene deficiency. No one would eat the gross Caprese salads that were prepared with blunt rocks.

But you know what? I've started carrying a Dragonfly as an experiment. It's summertime here, and if I'm not working, I'm wearing shorts. A Dragonfly is about the biggest knife that will fit in the bottom of a pocket without making an unsightly bulge. So Lucy might have carried the same size knife as me, but mine's sharper.

rock.jpg
LOL, so that’s what happened! :D

Yeah those Olduwan tools are pretty crude, but hey, that was a couple million years ago. I find it pretty interesting that flint supposedly flakes to a far sharper edge than steel - although it’s not as durable of course.

I’m glad you’re enjoying that Dragonfly. I find mine is almost like a extension of my finger in terms of muscle memory and swiftness of use.

It’s a great knife to take bike riding, for sure.

Like Abyss_Fish, I kind of had the reverse journey - the Police 4, Millie and even Endura used to seem ridiculously oversized for an EDC pocketknife.

I’m using the CE 52100 PM2 at work this week, alongside the ZDP189 DF2.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#27

Post by JD Spydo »

I've owned quite a few of Spyderco's micro sized models over the years but I've never used them hardly at all. I kept them mainly as collector pieces and trading items. Like most of you guys I tend to like a medium to full sized folder. The smallest Spyderco model I ever EDCed and liked was the Caly Jr with a ZDP-189 blade. Anything smaller than that just doesn't fill my needs for what I mainly use a folding knife for.

Now I always liked the looks of the old Jester model. But again it just isn't big enough for my needs. I have been tempted to give the "Dragonfly" hawkbill a try but with all my Harpy, TASMAN and Merlin models I just can't hardly justify it.

But I will proclaim that Spyderco's smaller knives are quality built with quality materials.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#28

Post by Evil D »

Cambertree wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:48 pm
The chopping and cutting tools made from flint and other stone types, which have been used for millions of years by hominids, were mostly around Dragonfly size or smaller.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldowan

To me the Dragonfly is a highly evolved version of those tools - in shape as well as size.

Ötzi the Iceman’s flint knife had about the same amount of cutting edge as the Dragonfly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ötzi

It’s by far, my most used Spyderco model.



I've always wondered about stone tool size, if it had more to do with the difficulty of making them and/or the availability of larger pieces of flint and the nature of longer stones breaking. You have to wonder, if you could go back in time and give that guy a machete with a 20 inch blade if it would prefer that over his palm sized flint knapped tool.

I think the answer is right in front of us, because we ARE them, and as time and technology moved we developed larger blades for a reason, yet smaller blades are still available so to me it seems like we just pick the right tools for the job.
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Cambertree
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#29

Post by Cambertree »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:30 am
I've always wondered about stone tool size, if it had more to do with the difficulty of making them and/or the availability of larger pieces of flint and the nature of longer stones breaking. You have to wonder, if you could go back in time and give that guy a machete with a 20 inch blade if it would prefer that over his palm sized flint knapped tool.

I think the answer is right in front of us, because we ARE them, and as time and technology moved we developed larger blades for a reason, yet smaller blades are still available so to me it seems like we just pick the right tools for the job.
That’s a good point David, and I’ve said the same thing myself when debating this question around the campfire before.

Another thing which comes into play is that in the past, your cutting tool would also often have been relied on as a self defence weapon. So I think you’re right, in that if our hypothetical person from a few thousand years ago was able to make a longer personal cutting tool, they probably would have.

I guess the point I was trying to make though is that someone like Ötzi was able to survive and even live well in wilderness conditions which were much more severe than most of us will ever see, with only a 2” bladed knife and a small hatchet, with a head much smaller than a modern hatchet.

I did see some old footage once of indigenous Australians in a remote part of the Northern Territory using typical trade type, steel skinning knives. It was interesting to see that they didn’t use the handle at all, but choked up with a pinch grip right at the end of the blade, only using the first couple of inches, exactly like it was a mussel shell or piece of flint.

One thing which I like about the Dragonfly is how the edge and point extends out about the same length as your forefinger, so it’s very easy to control and manipulate without thinking too much about it.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#30

Post by spyderg »

Personally I like my small knife to be a nice traditional slip-joint in my back pocket, very often a GEC. Something a bit larger in my left front, (I’m a lefty) pocket. Usually a Spyderco.

Since it’s arrived, I've been carrying a small for me, Spy27 Para3. Behind the choil, it’s a nice 3 1/2 finger grip. I don’t often use the front finger choil but it seems pretty comfortable on this guy.

I’ve got a Dragonfly, and it’s a great little knife. But it’s just too small for my hand. With its defined spots for your fingers it just doesn’t sit well in my hand to actually do any significant work. With a traditional slip-joint I can usually find a comfortable secure grip but the Dragonfly not so much. I can see how it would be just about perfect in a smaller hand though.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#31

Post by RustyIron »

All this week I've been putting the Dragonfly in my pocket after work. Gotta say, it's quite comfortable to carry around in the bottom of a shorts pocket; I prefer it this way, so I took the clip off and it's nice.

The question burning a hole in my head was "How low can you go?" Today my Ladybug K390 arrived. It's cute... and it's small... but maybe it's just a little TOO low. It's small for my XL hands. Even though it's late, I went down to the garage, turned a bead out of nylon, and tied up a lanyard. I'm not sure what to do with the Ladybug at this point; I don't want it to end up in the bottom of a pack where it will never get used, but I don't see carrying it much.


IMG_8220.jpeg
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#32

Post by RustyIron »

Aesthetically, the Ladybug is kind of neat, like a miniature running model of an automobile engine. But the flaw that catches my eye is the "elongated" Spyder hole. Technically, the elongation is an optical illusion. It appears that a hamfisted polisher rounded off the edges of the hole and upper area of the ricaso. It's quite clear in the picture above.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#33

Post by SubMicron »

RustyIron wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:10 pm
All this week I've been putting the Dragonfly in my pocket after work. Gotta say, it's quite comfortable to carry around in the bottom of a shorts pocket; I prefer it this way, so I took the clip off and it's nice.

The question burning a hole in my head was "How low can you go?" Today my Ladybug K390 arrived. It's cute... and it's small... but maybe it's just a little TOO low. It's small for my XL hands. Even though it's late, I went down to the garage, turned a bead out of nylon, and tied up a lanyard. I'm not sure what to do with the Ladybug at this point; I don't want it to end up in the bottom of a pack where it will never get used, but I don't see carrying it much.



IMG_8220.jpeg

Put it on a keychain with a short lanyard and a quick way to release it. It will be there when you need it.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#34

Post by JD Spydo »

Now I don't think that Spyderco's Micro-sized models are "awful">> no not at all. I'm just saying that they don't suit my needs.
I'm sure they are without any doubt the best keychain sized knives on the planet. Sometimes my M390 Military model isn't even quite enough and I have to go get one of my fixed blades to finish a certain cutting job.

I personally think that any lady should have a couple of Spyderco "micro-sized" knives. It all boils down to what your needs are. And with the heavy cutting jobs I encounter I would be all day trying to cut something with a Ladybug or a Dragonfly.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#35

Post by Woodpuppy »

My most active period riding, before I bought a car, was college. I rode everywhere, every day. And all that time I wore a Worker clipped to the waistband of my shorts at about 1 o’clock. Never irritated, never lost it. Course it was smooth stainless, and an frn delica might grate after a bit.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#36

Post by Christian Noble »

Cambertree wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:48 pm

Ötzi the Iceman’s flint knife had about the same amount of cutting edge as the Dragonfly.
I've been to the museum 2 different times in Bolzano to see Otzi's tools; craftsmanship is amazing, every stitch looks perfect, copper ax is perfectly symmetrical and all completely practical for the "EDC'er of the time" and I could go on... 5,300 years old, hard to comprehend

That aside, the knife he carried would be most similar to a serrated edge today in that it would require some sawing action and not so much slicing to cut. The knife was likely NOT used if other decent rock was readily available, but carried for those times when nothing else was serviceable. As when using stone tools, if the rock has high glass content, an unmodified flake is going to be sharpest instrument one could use in the stone age, and if it really good rock (obsidian, basalt, etc.), sharper than steel. A few 2 to 3" flakes broken on the spot and you could cut hide, plant fiber, wood, skin an animal, etc.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#37

Post by Tucson Tom »

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:43 pm
I also normally don´t carry small knives, whereby I have to say: The Native already IS a small knife for me.. ;)
Exactly. I just got back from a week long backpack and my S90V Native 5 was my small knife for the trip. It got a lot of use, mostly opening sealed packages and such. A true hardcore ultralight backpacker just carries a single edge razor-blade wrapped in a bit of cardboard. It is all a matter of the tasks expected balanced by convenience. And the Native 5 is a pleasure just to hold and admire.

I can and have managed with a razor blade, but a Native 5 is much nicer. (at a 3 ounce penalty)
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#38

Post by Donut »

I feel like a dragonfly would be enough for me 99% of the time.

The only time I'd want more is if I was cutting a lot of stuff or difficult to cut stuff.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#39

Post by Cambertree »

Christian Noble wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:00 pm
I've been to the museum 2 different times in Bolzano to see Otzi's tools; craftsmanship is amazing, every stitch looks perfect, copper ax is perfectly symmetrical and all completely practical for the "EDC'er of the time" and I could go on... 5,300 years old, hard to comprehend

That aside, the knife he carried would be most similar to a serrated edge today in that it would require some sawing action and not so much slicing to cut. The knife was likely NOT used if other decent rock was readily available, but carried for those times when nothing else was serviceable. As when using stone tools, if the rock has high glass content, an unmodified flake is going to be sharpest instrument one could use in the stone age, and if it really good rock (obsidian, basalt, etc.), sharper than steel. A few 2 to 3" flakes broken on the spot and you could cut hide, plant fiber, wood, skin an animal, etc.
Thanks for the fascinating info, Christian.

Those flint ‘cores’ would have been coveted material for trading too. We have a plenitude of flint nodules which wash up on some beaches in Western Victoria, encased in marine concretion. That area is the start of one of the seven major trunk trading routes which crisscrossed Australia in pre European contact times. The coastal flint from that area has been found as far north as outback New South Wales.

I was also fascinated by how Otzi’s gear, like his packframe, shoes, bowstave etc was all made out of different woods - the exact woods which were best fitted for the task, and probably the same ones which we would use today if we had to use timber from the same area.

I seem to recall that his clothes may have been made by a specialist and later repaired by himself. Apparently the repair work wasn’t as finely stitched as the original seams.
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Re: Maybe small knives are not TOTALLY awful

#40

Post by bearrowland »

The older I get, the more I find that a small blade will cover 90 percent of what I need cut. Granted, I love my bigger knives, but that Bug or Dragondog will do the trick.
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