Pleasant surprises from trying things we thought we didn't want

[Enactive]

Having gotten to know my preferences pretty well over the years, i try to buy knives (and other stuff) that i know i will like.

I also like to be adventurous, and have been in many ways throughout my life. As we get older, though, it can be harder to want to experiment. I keep trying. And yes life is full of paradoxes.

In any case, a couple of recent experimental purchases have provided me with some realizations. It would be cool if other folks also shared their similar thoughts and experiences with knives (of even with other stuff that is somehow relevant).

I decided wanted to experiment with:

1. Smaller knives
2. Serrations (and narrower edge angles) on more of my folders-- esp on FFG blades
(thanks to JD, Evil D, Vivi, Gringo, Cambertree, Wartstein and others for their inputs and enthusiasm on serrated blades)
3. Little did i know, i also wanted to try carrying modern knives without clips

My last purchase included :

1) SE Lil Native (i had been pretty sure i didn't want a smaller Native-- "The Native is plenty small, " i thought. Wrong! I love the lil thing. The entire family is really good-- and oh those Golden mid lockbacks! (AKA Backlocks)
2) SE Native Salt
3) SE Dragonfly 2 Hawkbill Salt (DHawk)

These knives have prompted a few thoughts-- especially about the value of trying new things.

I had been wishing there were a G10 handled SE ground Native 5. I like linerless G10 handles. I haven't found one if they exist-- and yes i know i could make one myself. The happy coincidence is that this fact is part of what drove me to buy a Lil Native. Since i could get the Lil in a backlock with SE edge and G10 handle i decided to go for that instead of the FRN Native 5 in SE with S35VN.

I've been wanting an H1 SE hawkbill for a long time. For a while (under the influence of Bloke) i thought i wanted a LadyHawk... (maybe too small for me) i was back and forth a bunch and ended up with the DHawk (in part because of Evil D's comparative observations about the two and lots of of other positive impressions). the DHawk is really great. The size is really nice and easy to use very precisely. It has a lot of utility in the garden and nearly everywhere. It is a little freaky looking tho.

I almost bought an orange sprint SpyderHawk when they were still available at MAP. I would still like one, but doubt i would carry it as much as the lil DHawk.

Not sure why, but I decided to try out my new Lil Native without a clip. It is just lovely to start with, but without the clip it is super nice.

On most modern folding knives i prefer the clip to be there for bracing fingers against while opening and closing. With the Dragonfly, i am pretty sure i want the clip there, but the Lil Native works great for me without it. I may put it back on for security of keeping it, but i like it clipless. I find that both the Lil Native and DFly fit pretty easily into most of my pants change/ watch pockets.

Serrated blades are nice for lots of reasons (edge retention, cutting aggression, ability to cut fibrous materials, ease of sharpening (surprise!?), general utility and on and on...) but there is also something else going on...

One point that Vivi used to make repeatedly is that the chisel ground nature of the SE blade grind gives the user a much narrow inclusive edge grind from the factory than a V-grind plain edge does (Of course this creates its own cutting dynamics/ deflection. And most SE blades are chisel ground on the "wrong side" for right handed users to do precise work. I understand that "wrong side grind" may be a safety feature for the average user, but it is still not my preference)

IIRC Vivi cited (as someone who appreciated narrow edge angles and had put lots of effort into reprofiling knives) that narrower inclusive edge angles as a main reason for his preference for SE to get the narrower edge from the factory without having to do the work himself. I am thinking i may agree.

I know many of us like to thin our edges out and some have lots of experience with it. The cutting performance advantages of thinner edges are undeniable and the durability tradeoffs are highly personal.

Cambertree encapsulates this principle very well here:

...

Generally if you want to customise an edge for your particular needs and cutting style, just start off by grinding an acute edge, then if you get any damage, sharpen it out at a slightly more obtuse angle, or using a microbevel. When the edge stabilises you’ll know you have an edge thickness/angle which is optimised for your needs. After a while you’ll get pretty good at guessing what point to thin the edge out to to begin with.

Further thoughts on the ghost that is the edge? Afi batches? How you do or don't regrind your own edges?

SE tips: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544&p=1429067#p1429067

Thinner grinds-- Afi Performance Flash Batch thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79799

TLDR; How have you pleasantly surprised yourself on your personal knife journey? Please share.

[Red]

I always gravitated toward larger folders with blades between 3.3”-4” but recently picked up a Dragonfly that I have grown to love.

[James Y]

I actually like the fact that Spyderco’s SE edge bevels are ground on the presentation side (AKA the “wrong” side). Unlike the chisel edges from some other companies, Spyderco’s SE edges are ground thin enough, and since I’m right-handed, any “drifting” during cutting with SE moves away from me/my other hand if I’m holding the object being cut. It also makes it a bit easier visually when I’m resharpening.

If a blade’s primary grind is too thick, like some ‘tactical’ folders from other companies, then yes, I would prefer the chisel edge bevel to be ground on the opposite side.

Jim

[Evil D]

Oh man, I love this topic because most of the things I'm really into today started out as things I didn't like at one time.

1. The Military. Huge, way more handle than it really needs but wonderful to use.

2. Serrations. Going on 3 years of dedicated SE carry except for a couple special knives I've carried here and there. All my true EDC/work knives are SE now.

3. Sharpmaker. I do still love my Edge Pro but for a long time I was under the impression that I wouldn't get much use out of a Sharpmaker since I had the EP and so many good quality stones for it. It has been 3+ years since I really used my Edge Pro (a lot of that is also because of SE though).

4. Simple/smooth grip handles. I'm sure there's probably a technical term for the style of handle, but basically just handles without finger grooves or 50/50 choils. I still like them on smaller knives but once a knife is big enough to support a full grip I don't want or need a choil, I want edge-to-handle design and a comfortable grip that doesn't force my hand into a specific grip.

5. "Lower end" steels. I've come to realize I'd rather maintain an edge and touch it up more often than spend more time fixing chips or dealing with high wear resistant steels. I still enjoy those steels, S110V will always be a favorite, but I've gained more appreciation for "average" steels. For me and my uses I feel like I spend more time with a sharper blade this way than I did when I carried steels for their working edge quality.

6. I'm slowly coming around to appreciate back locks more, but this one has a few catches that are sort of "pending" so we'll see.

[samdasnake]

3. Sharpmaker. I do still love my Edge Pro but for a long time I was under the impression that I wouldn't get much use out of a Sharpmaker since I had the EP and so many good quality stones for it. It has been 3+ years since I really used my Edge Pro (a lot of that is also because of SE though).

5. "Lower end" steels. I've come to realize I'd rather maintain an edge and touch it up more often than spend more time fixing chips or dealing with high wear resistant steels. I still enjoy those steels, S110V will always be a favorite, but I've gained more appreciation for "average" steels. For me and my uses I feel like I spend more time with a sharper blade this way than I did when I carried steels for their working edge quality.

I feel the same way about the Sharpmaker and "lower-end" steels. It's like the two were made for each other, especially VG-10. I used to turn my nose up at VG-10 but man is it nice to just take a few passes on the Sharpmaker and bring it back to shaving sharp. I recently picked up a Double Bevel b/c I love the design but was a bit disappointed that it was "just" VG10. Man was I wrong! It may not hold an edge forever but as you say it's so easy to sharpen that I actually end up with a sharper knife for more time than I would have with a super steel. I fully understand now why Spyderco made VG10 their go-to for Seki models.

[ladybug93]

although i really like plain edges, i’m finding very little need for them, especially in a pocket knife. pe is great for belt knives in the outdoors, but pocket knives are meant to work. she holds an edge longer, cuts through tough material better, and can be used for any task. it’s also much more adequate in an emergency. the only drawbacks are having to learn to sharpen serrations and potentially making less clean cuts. i don’t think either is a real issue.

[Sumdumguy]

Mantra. I should've hated it, but it's sooo good...

There are a few others, but I'm drawing a blank right now.

[MichaelScott]

Para 3. Thanks to Sharp Guy I got to use a Para 3 for a couple of weeks. Then I started chemo and knives were not on my radar for a number of months. Fast forward to this summer and being back in the market for a Spyderco or three, my first purchase was a Para 3, DLC, S30V. It has become my all around favorite Spyderco knife. A pleasant surprise for me.

[Wartstein]

- Another "vote" for (Spydercos!) serrations here:
Had those already in some comboedge / sabre grind models, did not hate, but also no particullarly like them there. Then the ffg Endela SE happened to come my way, and performed so surprisingly and amazingly well in just about ANY task, and in fact better than my PE knives, that now I am with David and could happily exclusively carry spyderedged folders. Only reason I don´t: My favorite models unfortunately do not come in ffg SE...

- FFG on thinner blades:
Admittedly very long ago, but there was a time when I thought that for my more "outdoorsy", "harder" use only sabre grinds would be strong enough. So I had my Enduras and Delicas only in that grind.
My first ffg Endura 4 opened my eyes to the fact, that for me this grind is still more than strong enough, while performing a lot better when it comes to slicing.
And now I am at a point where I´d really LOVE to see a Chaparral XL with its very thin, 2mm ffg blade... :rolleyes:

- Spydercos quality- and design level:
Also long time ago, but in my younger days I carried rather cheapo knives for a long time, thought more expensive, higher quality models would not offer much more.
Got a Delica (first Spyderco and first quality knife generally) and man, I was immidiately hooked. Just "different", more pleasant feel in hand, a joy to use and hold, so thought through... never looked back to my "cheapo knife days" since then...

[samdasnake]

Yes please to Chaparral XL!! I don't know how such a thin blade stock would perform on a larger knife but man that would be an amazing slicer!

[Evil D]

the only drawbacks are having to learn to sharpen serrations and potentially making less clean cuts. i don’t think either is a real issue.

Trying to not derail too much here, but these are the two issues I hear the most besides snagging. Sharpening does kinda depend on having the right tools for the job (Sharpmaker) though you probably can freehand one on the corner of a bench stone. If you have a Sharpmaker then sharpening is absolutely a non issue anymore. The clean cutting thing is one that's totally subjective. I can't fault a guy if that's what he likes, but in the end all I care about is getting the cut done and getting it done the first time. If I were doing a job that made perfect clean cuts a necessity I'd probably be using a utility blade anyway. As you said, I know without a doubt that what I'm cutting is going to get cut with SE and the blade isn't going to slip off like PE does. That's the whole reason I made the switch.

[wrdwrght]

What a delicious thread. Journey over destination.

There is so much more to this whole Spyderco thing than meets the eye...

[Enactive]

Thanks, All, for your contributions. I look forwards to hearing more voices and experiences.

I'm not replying to everyone individually, but do appreciate the conversation-- especially on experiences with serrations.

I always gravitated toward larger folders with blades between 3.3”-4” but recently picked up a Dragonfly that I have grown to love.

I still tend to prefer a 3-3.5 inch blade, but i have found i do like the smaller ones too.

I actually like the fact that Spyderco’s SE edge bevels are ground on the presentation side (AKA the “wrong” side). Unlike the chisel edges from some other companies, Spyderco’s SE edges are ground thin enough, and since I’m right-handed, any “drifting” during cutting with SE moves away from me/my other hand if I’m holding the object being cut. It also makes it a bit easier visually when I’m resharpening.

If a blade’s primary grind is too thick, like some ‘tactical’ folders from other companies, then yes, I would prefer the chisel edge bevel to be ground on the opposite side.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I do think the existing layout, though maybe counterintuitive, is actually "better" (more universally useful and safe ).

Oh man, I love this topic because most of the things I'm really into today started out as things I didn't like at one time.

1. The Military. Huge, way more handle than it really needs but wonderful to use.

2. Serrations. Going on 3 years of dedicated SE carry except for a couple special knives I've carried here and there. All my true EDC/work knives are SE now.

3. Sharpmaker. I do still love my Edge Pro but for a long time I was under the impression that I wouldn't get much use out of a Sharpmaker since I had the EP and so many good quality stones for it. It has been 3+ years since I really used my Edge Pro (a lot of that is also because of SE though).

4. Simple/smooth grip handles. I'm sure there's probably a technical term for the style of handle, but basically just handles without finger grooves or 50/50 choils. I still like them on smaller knives but once a knife is big enough to support a full grip I don't want or need a choil, I want edge-to-handle design and a comfortable grip that doesn't force my hand into a specific grip.

5. "Lower end" steels. I've come to realize I'd rather maintain an edge and touch it up more often than spend more time fixing chips or dealing with high wear resistant steels. I still enjoy those steels, S110V will always be a favorite, but I've gained more appreciation for "average" steels. For me and my uses I feel like I spend more time with a sharper blade this way than I did when I carried steels for their working edge quality.

6. I'm slowly coming around to appreciate back locks more, but this one has a few catches that are sort of "pending" so we'll see.

Thanks, D. Appreciate your enthusiasm! On point 4 i agree that the more neutral handle allows more different grips. For me a barrel-shaped Mora-type handle is optimal for many uses.

I'll be curious to hear more about your pending backlock experiences.

I have always like backlocks, but for a minute thought they were not as "cool" as some other types. They are the solid favorite now and make up ~75% of my Spydercos.

What a delicious thread. Journey over destination.

There is so much more to this whole Spyderco thing than meets the eye...

Thanks, Marc.

As you have observed, I am a process-oriented guy. Glad you appreciate the thread and looking forward to more stories. :cool:

[samdasnake]

the only drawbacks are having to learn to sharpen serrations and potentially making less clean cuts. i don’t think either is a real issue.

Trying to not derail too much here, but these are the two issues I hear the most besides snagging. Sharpening does kinda depend on having the right tools for the job (Sharpmaker) though you probably can freehand one on the corner of a bench stone. If you have a Sharpmaker then sharpening is absolutely a non issue anymore. The clean cutting thing is one that's totally subjective. I can't fault a guy if that's what he likes, but in the end all I care about is getting the cut done and getting it done the first time. If I were doing a job that made perfect clean cuts a necessity I'd probably be using a utility blade anyway. As you said, I know without a doubt that what I'm cutting is going to get cut with SE and the blade isn't going to slip off like PE does. That's the whole reason I made the switch.

I have around 20 Spydercos but I've stuck almost exclusively to PE. y'all are convincing me to give SE a try. I have a Byrd hawkbill but I'd like to upgrade. Any suggestions on knives for a first time SE buyer? I've been thinking about grabbing a native salt in SE?

[Wartstein]

I have around 20 Spydercos but I've stuck almost exclusively to PE. y'all are convincing me to give SE a try. I have a Byrd hawkbill but I'd like to upgrade. Any suggestions on knives for a first time SE buyer? I've been thinking about grabbing a native salt in SE?

My suggestion would be the Endela SE, since due to personal experience I am close to 100% convinced you won´t be disappointed by the performance of the serrated cutting edge itself. Obviously the "geometry" of the serrations are just right for normal, day to day knife tasks.
But sure I can´t tell if you generally like the Endela platform. For me it is a great utility knife, and for comparison very close to the PM 2 in its dimensions (just a bit less tall, a bit thinner overall and with a thinner blade stock).

But then: There are tons of other options out there that I never used myself, and the Native Salt SE might very well be one of those and work just as well as the Endela SE.

From what I read here:
- If you´re fine with spending a little more money (and can find one?) the Caribbean SE must be a perfect choice.
- On the other hand, if you want to save some cash, the Tenacious SE would probably a good way to go (and keep in mind: In a serrated blade a "cheaper", softer steel does not have to be a downside necessarely, but could even be suited very well for that type of edge. I am not an expert on that though).

[samdasnake]

Many thanks Wartstein! Those are some great options too look into. I've waffled on the Endela as I generally prefer smaller knives for EDC but it does seem to have a lot of fans.

[Enactive]

the only drawbacks are having to learn to sharpen serrations and potentially making less clean cuts. i don’t think either is a real issue.

Trying to not derail too much here, but these are the two issues I hear the most besides snagging. Sharpening does kinda depend on having the right tools for the job (Sharpmaker) though you probably can freehand one on the corner of a bench stone. If you have a Sharpmaker then sharpening is absolutely a non issue anymore. The clean cutting thing is one that's totally subjective. I can't fault a guy if that's what he likes, but in the end all I care about is getting the cut done and getting it done the first time. If I were doing a job that made perfect clean cuts a necessity I'd probably be using a utility blade anyway. As you said, I know without a doubt that what I'm cutting is going to get cut with SE and the blade isn't going to slip off like PE does. That's the whole reason I made the switch.

I have around 20 Spydercos but I've stuck almost exclusively to PE. y'all are convincing me to give SE a try. I have a Byrd hawkbill but I'd like to upgrade. Any suggestions on knives for a first time SE buyer? I've been thinking about grabbing a native salt in SE?

Native Salt SE is kick@ss and a very solid choice. The Endela SE as Wartstein suggests is a good one. If you can wait, a Rock Jumper in SE is on my to buy list, and might be a good addition to yours too.

[Enactive]

Shoulda done this earlier... :rolleyes:

This thread needs pics!

[Evil D]

I have around 20 Spydercos but I've stuck almost exclusively to PE. y'all are convincing me to give SE a try. I have a Byrd hawkbill but I'd like to upgrade. Any suggestions on knives for a first time SE buyer? I've been thinking about grabbing a native salt in SE?

I would definitely look at the Endela or Delica wharnie, they're probably the best slicing and least expensive to try out. The Tenacious looks like it would do pretty good too.

Whatever you do just keep an open mind. It's very different and different means you'll probably be out of your comfort zone. When you go to sharpen it just do what the DVD says and you'll be fine. The more you sharpen them the better they slice.

[curlyhairedboy]

For me, it's FFG SE.

Tried it for the first time on a tenacious. Truly remarkable performance. Now I need a SE Caribbean, a SE shaman, etc.