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Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:26 pm
by Superfool
sal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:28 am
Hi Superfool,
Welcome to our forum.
I agree that a Damasteel UK would be very cool. I'd like more input on handle material, keeping in mind that the cost goes up on exotic handle materials.
I'll start a thread on a British forum and see if I can get more input?
sal
Hi Sal.
I was thinking fluted carbon fibre like the 40th edition native you did a couple years ago.
Thanks very much for considering it.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:46 pm
by Cambertree
Superfool wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:48 am
Maybe a titanium handled one, in a good tool steel; what are the differences between K390, CPM 4V and Maxamet?
Yes, when I first read your suggestion, I was envisaging something like the beautiful collection of titanium handled Slipits which Radioactive Spyder has, with the addition of Damasteel blades.
As D1omedes said, this configuration would allow the swirling damascus patterning to be the focus of the knife.
Personally, I’m with Fixall in that I like micarta for a functional handle material. It’s easy to sand into more rounded edges too, for people who prefer that. Contoured G10 is also fine with me.
I understand that some would prefer a more ‘premium’ handle material though.
I have no issue with peel ply carbon fibre as opposed to full carbon fibre.
The shredded peel ply used on the Kapara is my favourite CF Spyderco have used so far.
I much prefer the randomised pattern to the regularity of the usual weave.
Contoured edges would also be great, if we’re going all out with features.
This is a Delica with custom contoured 4k CF scales. The polished surface is quite smooth and slick, but the grip security is still excellent due to the ergonomic Delica handle shape.
The Calyesque shape of the UKPK handle offers a similar, or even better ergonomic handle shape, so it might work well with that kind of contouring.
Superfool, K390 has superb qualities for bladesteel, being strong, highly wear resistant, tough enough to take thin edges and relatively easy to sharpen to a scary sharp edge.
I haven’t tried 4V but I’m keen to, and the UKPK with its thin bladestock is a great model to showcase high performance steels, I feel. Given the popularity of 4V in recent Spydie runs, perhaps it would increase interest and potential sales in a ‘premium’ UKPK to also consider using the Bohler equivalent, Vanadis 4E?
Maxamet offers extreme wear resistance and would be excellent to try in the UKPK if it worked ok with that thinly ground blade.
All three of those steels are non-stainless.
I was actually using my SE Gin-1 drop point UKPK at work this week, and it was such a pleasure, that I’m going to make my usual ‘broken record’ point of ‘Don’t forget about the drop point version’! :D
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:54 am
by Lucky21
Some quick and dirty visuals of new style UKPK’s. Love the idea of a tool steel in the Brouwer blade shape. Would look so traditional with a nice patina, but have all the modern functionality
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:32 pm
by Superfool
sal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:28 am
Hi Superfool,
Welcome to our forum.
I agree that a Damasteel UK would be very cool. I'd like more input on handle material, keeping in mind that the cost goes up on exotic handle materials.
I'll start a thread on a British forum and see if I can get more input?
sal
Thanks for the welcome Sal. I don't wanna fangirl too hard, but it speaks a lot about you that you take the time to respond to individual requests.
As far as costs go, I don't really know much of the costs but how I see them online. Guessing how much a handle would elevate the cost is beyond me, but if its 25% difference to go from the entry level polymer, to a fluted carbon fibre, or something equally fancy, then I would be fine.
Out of interest, why do we never get the serrated UKPKs, or the rescue UKPK over in the UK? Do they just not sell here?
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:38 pm
by foofie
Cambertree wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:21 am
A Damasteel bladed UKPK would certainly be cool and Golden have used their steel before. But to be honest, considering the likely price point, I'd probably prefer to pay for a tool steel UKPK in something like K390, CPM 4V or Maxamet.
k390? Yes
CPM 4V - Yes!
Maxamet? YES! :D
I would even settle for a Damasteel blade
To maintain reasonable cost - it will be a balance between blade steel and scale material. I think fluting/contouring would add significantly to the cost and push the blade towards cost prohibitive? I am a little biased towards steel, since the scales can be replaced relatively easily, but not the blade.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:40 pm
by N. Brian Huegel
How about checked English Walnut to match your favorite Holland & Holland shotgun.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:58 pm
by Superfool
N. Brian Huegel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:40 pm
How about checked English Walnut to match your favorite Holland & Holland shotgun.
That sounds really nice.
Being able to afford a Holand & Holland shotgun would also be quite nice.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:02 pm
by sal
Hi SuperFool,
I'm in R & D and these kinds of projects are quite fun to do and still fall in line with my responsibility. I also asked the question on the "Edge Matters" forum in the UK and there re quite a few suggestions there as well.
On the serrations, they're not a problem if the demand is there. Maybe you need to start a tread?
When we first designed the UKPK, in discussion with the British Blade afi's on the "British Blades Forum", Most thought I was nuts, but the Brits appreciated the effort and were a lot of help. That was man y years ago. Now Slip-joints seem to be gaining in popularity.
Costs are another story. The Damasteel alone will probably add 25% to the cost of the "Entry Level" FRN UKPK. The current FRN version made in Golden is about as inexpensive as we could make the tool. Handle material and the processing of the material adds quickly.
If you are going to play around with the fairly sophisticated "High performance matter separators", moderation is required.
BTW, the HH evresion is very nice and I must commend them for taking the risk and keep the cost reasonable.
sal
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:04 pm
by Superfool
sal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Hi SuperFool,
I'm in R & D and these kinds of projects are quite fun to do and still fall in line with my responsibility. I also asked the question on the "Edge Matters" forum in the UK and there re quite a few suggestions there as well.
On the serrations, they're not a problem if the demand is there. Maybe you need to start a tread?
When we first designed the UKPK, in discussion with the British Blade afi's on the "British Blades Forum", Most thought I was nuts, but the Brits appreciated the effort and were a lot of help. That was man y years ago. Now Slip-joints seem to be gaining in popularity.
Costs are another story. The Damasteel alone will probably add 25% to the cost of the "Entry Level" FRN UKPK. The current FRN version made in Golden is about as inexpensive as we could make the tool. Handle material and the processing of the material adds quickly.
If you are going to play around with the fairly sophisticated "High performance matter separators", moderation is required.
BTW, the HH evresion is very nice and I must commend them for taking the risk and keep the cost reasonable.
sal
Hi Sal.
I am not on edgematters; what are their suggestions?
What sort of volume do you need to manufacture, in order to make a sprint run worth your while?
As far as the serrations go, I very rarely see it, so I guess it will be a case of trying to get one sent across the pond by a reseller. I would like one, and a rescue UKPK would be handy to have as a paramedic.
I have ordered two of the HH UKPK; one is a gift, any idea when they will be getting shipped over?
Thanks again for your responses.
SF
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:15 pm
by TomAiello
sal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Costs are another story. The Damasteel alone will probably add 25% to the cost of the "Entry Level" FRN UKPK. The current FRN version made in Golden is about as inexpensive as we could make the tool. Handle material and the processing of the material adds quickly.
I would happily pay 25% more (or more) for the Damasteel.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:38 pm
by Superfool
Cambertree wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:46 pm
Superfool wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:48 am
Maybe a titanium handled one, in a good tool steel; what are the differences between K390, CPM 4V and Maxamet?
Yes, when I first read your suggestion, I was envisaging something like the beautiful collection of titanium handled Slipits which Radioactive Spyder has, with the addition of Damasteel blades.
As D1omedes said, this configuration would allow the swirling damascus patterning to be the focus of the knife.
Personally, I’m with Fixall in that I like micarta for a functional handle material. It’s easy to sand into more rounded edges too, for people who prefer that. Contoured G10 is also fine with me.
I understand that some would prefer a more ‘premium’ handle material though.
I have no issue with peel ply carbon fibre as opposed to full carbon fibre.
The shredded peel ply used on the Kapara is my favourite CF Spyderco have used so far.
I much prefer the randomised pattern to the regularity of the usual weave.
Contoured edges would also be great, if we’re going all out with features.
This is a Delica with custom contoured 4k CF scales. The polished surface is quite smooth and slick, but the grip security is still excellent due to the ergonomic Delica handle shape.
The Calyesque shape of the UKPK handle offers a similar, or even better ergonomic handle shape, so it might work well with that kind of contouring.
Superfool, K390 has superb qualities for bladesteel, being strong, highly wear resistant, tough enough to take thin edges and relatively easy to sharpen to a scary sharp edge.
I haven’t tried 4V but I’m keen to, and the UKPK with its thin bladestock is a great model to showcase high performance steels, I feel. Given the popularity of 4V in recent Spydie runs, perhaps it would increase interest and potential sales in a ‘premium’ UKPK to also consider using the Bohler equivalent, Vanadis 4E?
Maxamet offers extreme wear resistance and would be excellent to try in the UKPK if it worked ok with that thinly ground blade.
All three of those steels are non-stainless.
I was actually using my SE Gin-1 drop point UKPK at work this week, and it was such a pleasure, that I’m going to make my usual ‘broken record’ point of ‘Don’t forget about the drop point version’! :D
Cambertree: Thank you for your views on the handle, but moreso for the explanation of the metals.
I try to read up on this stuff, but a lot of it goes over my head. I clearly should have paid more attention in chemistry.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:40 pm
by Superfool
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:15 pm
sal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Costs are another story. The Damasteel alone will probably add 25% to the cost of the "Entry Level" FRN UKPK. The current FRN version made in Golden is about as inexpensive as we could make the tool. Handle material and the processing of the material adds quickly.
I would happily pay 25% more (or more) for the Damasteel.
Same. I thought Sal was going to say it would double it!!
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 pm
by curlyhairedboy
I, too, would pay a premium for damasteel.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm
by TomAiello
To be honest, I'd probably be willing to pay well more than 25%.
For a UKPK with Damasteel and upgraded handles. I'd definitely be at or above 200% of the normal price.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:29 am
by Superfool
Lucky21 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:54 am
Some quick and dirty visuals of new style UKPK’s. Love the idea of a tool steel in the Brouwer blade shape. Would look so traditional with a nice patina, but have all the modern functionality
Thenk you for your response; these images paint a thousand words. I didn't see them when I replied to people before. I did some 3DSmax and Photoshop back in the day, but the days of me knocking something like yours out in 10 minutes are long gone. It would take me hours of messing about now.
I dont suppose you could do any more with the other suggestions from the board? G10 and micarta, and the carbon fibre ine shredded and fluted?
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:13 pm
by sal
Hi SF,
The study of steel is a long term project. For me, it was very slow coming it. Years. This is one of the few places where there is much discussion of steels, primarily because we are willing to try (risk) many different steels. Especially difficult since most steels look the same.
sal
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:37 pm
by The Meat man
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm
To be honest, I'd probably be willing to pay well more than 25%.
For a UKPK with Damasteel and upgraded handles. I'd definitely be at or above 200% of the normal price.
Same here!
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:32 pm
by TomAiello
This thread is making me want to go find a 40th Anniversary Native.
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:26 am
by curlyhairedboy
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:32 pm
This thread is making me want to go find a 40th Anniversary Native.
They're great, and owning one is the primary reason I want spyderco to do more with damasteel :D
Re: Damascus UK Penknife UKPK
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:45 am
by Doc Dan
I would be in for any steel and handle upgrade. I have really fallen in love with my UKPK, so much so it hardly leaves my pocket.