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d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:15 pm
by ladybug93
i have often said on this forum that i think spyderco does a really good job with 8cr13mov. you all do it better than most others i've tried. however, it's still 8cr13mov.
as we're seeing more and more budget knives from china with upgraded steels like d2 for around the same cost, i can't help but wonder if we'll get to see any similar upgrades to spyderco's chinese line.
i know it's discontinued, but a d2 resilience would be the cat's pajamas. the bee's knees. it would be nice.
some of the smaller knives in d2 would be great too. :)
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:25 pm
by BornIn1500
:eek: The Resilience was discontinued?
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:28 pm
by ladybug93
BornIn1500 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:25 pm
:eek: The Resilience was discontinued?
real bummer, huh? it was my favorite in the line. it's a folding kitchen knife. i also wished for it in lc200n because i often use it for cutting my kids' food up.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:36 pm
by Mushroom
Resilience is still in the 2020 Catalog, are you sure it was discontinued ?
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:36 pm
by VooDooChild
Its not on the disco list for the past 3 years. I think its still in production.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:42 pm
by ladybug93
i could've sworn i read that it was discontinued. that was also around the time that it went on clearance everywhere and it's out of stock everywhere. i hope i'm wrong, but i really thought i remembered reading here somewhere that it was discontinued.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:14 pm
by JMM
ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:15 pm
i have often said on this forum that i think spyderco does a really good job with 8cr13mov. you all do it better than most others i've tried. however, it's still 8cr13mov.
as we're seeing more and more budget knives from china with upgraded steels like d2 for around the same cost, i can't help but wonder if we'll get to see any similar upgrades to spyderco's chinese line.
i know it's discontinued, but a d2 resilience would be the cat's pajamas. the bee's knees. it would be nice.
some of the smaller knives in d2 would be great too. :)
^THIS^ [+1000000000]
Disco'd or not, I'd buy two Resilience immediately if it were to be released in D2. By far my favourite knife they make in China.... I've actually gone so far as to look into getting a re-blade done for mine...
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:50 pm
by TomAiello
I'd rather see the China line go to 14c28n than D2.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:31 pm
by Bill1170
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:50 pm
I'd rather see the China line go to 14c28n than D2.
Totally agree, Tom.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:37 am
by Cambertree
Hi Ladybug93,
Not to be a debbie downer, but this question has come up a few times on the byrd forum.
Circumstances and decisions can change of course, but I’ve taken the liberty of collecting a few recent quotes from Sal which seem to indicate Spyderco’s current views on the subject:
sal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:30 pm
Hi, Thanx for the help, but I have a pretty good idea of what's going on in the world of blade steels. At this time, I don't think that anyone in China makes a blade steel quality D2. We are checking with out sources in China. Even if we get a "yes", I'll still need to get a sample, test the sample, do an analysis of the sample. And then make my decisions.
When we first began making knives in China, we asked what was the best blade steel available in China. They said 440C. We ordered our first knives in 440C. When they came in, the knives were marked 440C, but analysis revealed a different chemistry. In fact there was nothing made in China at the time with 16-18% chrome. in other words, no 440 (A,B or C). That's how we ended up putting 8Cr13MoV on the knives. Then all of the other knife manufacturers that were marking their knives 440 had to change. I don't think I was very popular at the time.
They will mark any steel you want them to and they will also mark any country of origin that you want them to. So let's do our homework, and I like to do my own.
sal
sal wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:36 am
We've got some Chinese D2. Early testing showed cracks and flaws. We're making up some Mules to test on the CATRA. Our customers would expect no less of us.
sal
sal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:00 am
Hi Cbrstar,
Thanx for your references. We've watched them on the past. We have tested their D2 and we've elected not to use it, at least not for Spyderco.
sal
sal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:11 am
We tested some D2 made in china and weren't satisfied with the quality.
sal
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:59 am
by ladybug93
Cambertree wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:37 am
Hi Ladybug93...
thanks for the quotes. i have to wonder though... why even make knives in china at all if this is the way things are? i know it’s a budget line, but it doesn’t sound like anything i’d want my name on.
i have an esee zancudo and avispa in d2 and they’re great. even if they’re not real d2, they have held an edge for a long time and developed a light patina. i’m quite pleased with them.
personally, i’d rather have a resilience made in america with a better steel, but if other companies are having good results with chinese d2 and other steels, i’m curious what the issue is.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:26 am
by Cambertree
ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:59 am
thanks for the quotes. i have to wonder though... why even make knives in china at all if this is the way things are? i know it’s a budget line, but it doesn’t sound like anything i’d want my name on.
i have an esee zancudo and avispa in d2 and they’re great. even if they’re not real d2, they have held an edge for a long time and developed a light patina. i’m quite pleased with them.
personally, i’d rather have a resilience made in america with a better steel, but if other companies are having good results with chinese d2 and other steels, i’m curious what the issue is.
Yes it’s a pity that despite requests for an improved steel on the value line of Spydies, I understand sales haven’t been outstanding on the Polestar and Alcyone.
Since learning that they were designed as an affordable folder with the Scouts in mind, I’ve resolved to buy some as gifts to support the concept.
I would think that Spyderco’s R&D standards are pretty rigorous. I recall hearing of whole batches of China made knives which were scrapped because they didn’t come up to Spyderco’s quality standards. I wonder how many other makers would do this?
I agree, the 8Cr13Mov line is executed very well, and represents outstanding value for the price range.
That’s good to know you like the Avispa and Zancudo. I’ve considered buying them as gifts too. I only have an Esee Laser Strike, but I think it’s a decent, fairly heavy duty fixed blade.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:06 am
by ladybug93
Cambertree wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:26 am
ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:59 am
thanks for the quotes. i have to wonder though... why even make knives in china at all if this is the way things are? i know it’s a budget line, but it doesn’t sound like anything i’d want my name on.
i have an esee zancudo and avispa in d2 and they’re great. even if they’re not real d2, they have held an edge for a long time and developed a light patina. i’m quite pleased with them.
personally, i’d rather have a resilience made in america with a better steel, but if other companies are having good results with chinese d2 and other steels, i’m curious what the issue is.
Yes it’s a pity that despite requests for an improved steel on the value line of Spydies, I understand sales haven’t been outstanding on the Polestar and Alcyone.
Since learning that they were designed as an affordable folder with the Scouts in mind, I’ve resolved to buy some as gifts to support the concept.
I would think that Spyderco’s R&D standards are pretty rigorous. I recall hearing of whole batches of China made knives which were scrapped because they didn’t come up to Spyderco’s quality standards. I wonder how many other makers would do this?
I agree, the 8Cr13Mov line is executed very well, and represents outstanding value for the price range.
That’s good to know you like the Avispa and Zancudo. I’ve considered buying them as gifts too. I only have an Esee Laser Strike, but I think it’s a decent, fairly heavy duty fixed blade.
the zancudo is one of the most comfortable 3” folders i’ve used. i really like it as an alternative to something like the leek. i can even spydie flick it with the thumb stud. i will say though that the frame lock takes a strong thumb to disengage. i wouldn’t give a zancudo to a kid.
the avispa is not as comfortable in hand, but it’s still alright, especially for such a thin package. the blade has a much larger feel than the zancudo, even though it doesn’t really look it. i can spydie flick the thumb stud on the avispa too, and since the lock is longer, it takes a little less strength to disengage. i like to carry it into the woods as a backup to a fixed blade. if you like the blade on the laser strike, you’ll like the avispa.
i’ll try and get a pic with a spyderco for comparison.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:39 am
by Cambertree
ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:06 am
the zancudo is one of the most comfortable 3” folders i’ve used. i really like it as an alternative to something like the leek. i can even spydie flick it with the thumb stud. i will say though that the frame lock takes a strong thumb to disengage. i wouldn’t give a zancudo to a kid.
the avispa is not as comfortable in hand, but it’s still alright, especially for such a thin package. the blade has a much larger feel than the zancudo, even though it doesn’t really look it. i can spydie flick the thumb stud on the avispa too, and since the lock is longer, it takes a little less strength to disengage. i like to carry it into the woods as a backup to a fixed blade. if you like the blade on the laser strike, you’ll like the avispa.
i’ll try and get a pic with a spyderco for comparison.
Thanks, I appreciate hearing your thoughts on these knives.
One thing which saves me a bit of money is I don’t tend to buy folding knives which have a right handed bias. Spyderco have spoiled me that way.
But I do like the look of that Zancudo blade shape, and it sounds like a knife which would be a great choice for a kid who has learned to use folding knives responsibly. Based on your comments I’ll probably go for that model over the Avispa.
If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, when you get a chance to take some comparison pics with a Spydie, would you mind including a top down view showing the spine thicknesses?
Thanks and sorry for veering off topic a little.
Have you ever considered checking out the Polestar and Alcyone models?
That Astute looks great. It would have been nice to see it in CTS-BD1N, but oh well.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:12 am
by ladybug93
here’s a shot with a few spydies of similar size. i showed the lock side this time so you could see how that looks. sorry... i didn’t see your request until after i took this picture. i’ll try and get it posted later.
the blade thickness is almost the same between the manix and avispa, with the avispa being just slightly thinner (0.13” v. 0.11”). the zancudo is a little thinner still at 0.09”.
esee also just released a xancudo fixed blade in s35v that i would love to own.
i haven’t tried the polestar or alcyone. the astute does look like a great knife. not sure i’ll get one, but i like it’s unique shape.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:45 am
by Cambertree
ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:12 am
here’s a shot with a few spydies of similar size...
Thanks again Ladybug93. :)
That's interesting, I thought they were liner locks. I've never tried a framelock folder. Those blade etch motifs are cool too.
Do you have a preferred edge finish on your D2 knives when resharpening them?
One thing I like about the existing 8Cr13MoV line is they get screaming sharp with minor effort. Not quite the edge retention of D2 of course...
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:01 am
by bearfacedkiller
People who buy budget knives usually don’t care what steel it is. A budget knife for that reason probably needs to be stainless. The average Joe wants a stainless knife.
This threads highlights why I don’t buy Chinese knives. If they say it is D2 then there is a chance that it isn’t. If it is actually D2 then it is probably some low grade equivalent of D2. If it is made in China I couldn’t care less about what they tang says. They will do whatever they can do to maximize profits.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:48 am
by Notsurewhy
I think a stainless upgrade (bd1n or 14c28n) would make more sense from a business standpoint than d2. If the guys I work with are typical, folks who buy budget knives don't know what steel it is made out of and probably don't keep it sharp.
So if they've owned the knife a year, they won't remember that The d2 knife stayed sharp for 10-20% longer when it was new, but they will notice that it's rusty and their 8cr or bd1 knives aren't. And if someone asks "how do you like that Spyderco?" You don't want the response to be "darn thing is rusty after only a year".
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:01 am
by SubMicron
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:50 pm
I'd rather see the China line go to 14c28n than D2.
I also would prefer 14c28n.
Re: d2 the china line...?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:02 am
by cycleguy
After reading this thread .... So glad I don't buy China knives.
CG