I do not like LC200N *rant*

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emanuel
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I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby emanuel » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:09 pm

I love my Waterway. I've used it extensively for the past year, from gutting fish/boar to batoning oak branches in the middle of the Carpathian Mountains, and I God **** love it! But I don't feel the love for this steel. There is NOTHING besides corrosion resistance that this steel brings to the table. NOTHING else. A friend from Ukraine that spends A LOT more time outdoors than me, around the Black Sea and in Russian Taiga (lots of humidity, Florida has nothing on it), mostly Ural mountains area, sees no advantage to this steel compared to the most basic offerings from Spyderco or competitors. Am I and him just some spoiled brats? Lol. I mean there are so many cheaper and even better stainless steels. I don't feel this steel needs to be used in anything else besides salt knives (which I love btw, I have a Pacific Salt SE H1 and a plain edge Native in LC200N, which satisfy me for the salt water use, but it doesn't compare to other steels, not even s30v).

So to end this rant, what "triggered" me was all the push for Kapara in LC200N, which I see no use for UNLESS it's full salt knife, and tbh I would rather use my Pacific Salt for those uses. That knife is a dedicated slicer, a knife used to cut in the kitchen. Corrosion resistance is the last thing that matters in the kitchen, a place where most ppl instantly wash and dry their knives once done (or a few hours later for a Kapara, when s30v is still corrosion resistant enough to not have any issues), there's a reason why carbon steel japanese knives are so popular. For most ppl, corrosion isn't a problem in the kitchen.

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Evil D
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:27 pm

Eh. I love it 🤷‍♂️
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby crazywednesday » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:49 pm

I enjoy my waterway also. If they were to make a tool steel version, my choice would be K390. I love my P4.
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Rinzler » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:50 pm

I've never used a pocket knife in the kitchen - that's what kitchen knives are for. I have and do use pocket knives for food outside of the kitchen, which usually means I wipe off the blade and put it back in my pocket. I'm a fan of LC200N and am not a fan of S30V. While I would love a Kapara in LC200N, I'll take a Kapara in any steel as long as it's not S30V or VG10. I'd be happy with that S110V in your avatar as an option for the Kapara...

3/10 on the antiLC-Kapara rant for failing to convince me. :D

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JRinFL
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby JRinFL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:58 pm

For Salt models I would like to see LC200N over H1, every model, every time. But I do not want to see it in other models just because there is some short term “hotness” to it. Horses for courses as the old saying goes.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Larrin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:12 pm

I think it strikes a pretty good balance of properties along with being highly corrosion resistant. It’s not as if it is a bad steel apart from its corrosion resistance.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby The Meat man » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:29 pm

I like it. It's a good well balanced steel in every characteristic except corrosion resistance, in which it excels.
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Matt Deaner
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Matt Deaner » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:21 pm

I have a spydiechef and would prefer it in just about any other steel besides lc200n. The edge retention just isn’t there. Brilliant design held back by the steel....

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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:45 pm

I thought the Waterway was marketed as a Salt knife. Spyderco makes other fixed blades. Are you specifically wanting this exact model in a different steel?

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:13 pm

In all fairness I think the jury may still be out on these Nitrogen based steels. I love H-1 in SE but in plain edge to me it's close to useless for what I mainly use a knife for. LC200N is obviously far better in PE than H-1. Not yet sure how it is in SE because I've yet to test drive one.

I think that these Nitrogen based steels are in still in their pioneer stage for the most part. And even with what we've see so far I think that both LC200N and H-1 have earned their keep in the Salt Series.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby curlyhairedboy » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:23 pm

It works a lot better in plainedge than H1 does, and that's the bar it had to pass in my book.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
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Evil D
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:27 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:13 pm
In all fairness I think the jury may still be out ....



I don't know if that's the issue or if people are just really unrealistic in their expectations. If a guy wants S110V or equivalent edge retention, then why not stick with those steels that are known for extreme edge retention and not even waste your time with these "lesser" steels?

I dunno. There was a time when the idea of not having to sharpen a knife for a month was appealing to me, then I realized I'd rather spend 60 seconds every couple days doing a touch up and end up with a sharper edge more often than those guys who are happy with mediocre "working edge" sharpness for extended periods. I guess I just realized there's a practical limit to how much edge retention I need, and I'll happily give some up for an increase in other characteristics.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby TomAiello » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:00 pm

I feel like LC200N is the current flavor of the day. There is an outcry for almost everything to be made in LC200N, and I agree with the original poster that it's a bit over the top.

For the Waterway (designed by/for an ocean kayak fisherman) it makes sense. It also makes sense for an absolute zero maintenance (salt series) knife. I'd love to have a Manix 2 LW Salt, for example, with LC200N.

But I agree that the "LC200N everything" cries are a bit much. I have read someone (can't remember who) on this forum proposing that LC200N replace s30v as Spyderco's base steel, for example. That seems kind of nuts to me.

I don't own a SpydieChef, but I think in that platform I'd prefer something other than LC200N.

I also agree that the Waterway (I own one) would be a _fantastic_ knife if it were sprinted (or just made in a permanent variant) in another steel for general outdoors use. I recall their being an entire thread about that idea, and I think I proposed K390 at that time. I still think K390 in the Waterway design would be amazing, and I'd carry/use it a lot more that way, given that I am not a saltwater adventurer and live roughly a thousand mile drive (more like 500 miles as the crow flies) from the ocean.

I don't think LC200N is a bad steel at all. It's just a very specific steel for very specific applications. It makes a ton of sense in those applications, and a little less sense in other applications (or as a general purpose EDC steel).

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:01 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:27 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:13 pm
In all fairness I think the jury may still be out ....



I don't know if that's the issue or if people are just really unrealistic in their expectations. If a guy wants S110V or equivalent edge retention, then why not stick with those steels that are known for extreme edge retention and not even waste your time with these "lesser" steels?

I dunno. There was a time when the idea of not having to sharpen a knife for a month was appealing to me, then I realized I'd rather spend 60 seconds every couple days doing a touch up and end up with a sharper edge more often than those guys who are happy with mediocre "working edge" sharpness for extended periods. I guess I just realized there's a practical limit to how much edge retention I need, and I'll happily give some up for an increase in other characteristics.
^this.

lc200n is close enough to s30v retention to me, which is more than adequate to get me through at least a day of cutting. but it’s also even easier to touch up and it’s rustproof.

it’s not for everyone and that’s alright. living in hawaii, i love both lc200n and h1. when i move this summer, i’ll probably still love them both, but maybe i’ll be more willing to try some other steels. it all depends on your needs. sometimes you have to prioritize rust resistance over edge retention. i’m glad we have the options.

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby James Y » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:33 pm

I’ve read posts on BF by some people who favor super edge-holding steels, who say they touch up their knives after each day of use, because they’re afraid of losing the edge and having a difficult time restoring it. What’s the difference between that and using a so-called “lesser” steel that may not hold an edge as long, but takes a screaming sharp edge, holds it a decent amount of time, and is easy to resharpen?

Jim

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby jpm2 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:42 pm

It all depends on how you're using the knife.
LC200N is fine for me around the house, I might get away with touching it up every couple days.
But at work, I would need to stop and repair edge damage (rolling) on LC200N several times a day, whereas I can usually go the whole day without needing to do that with other steels.

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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Sumdumguy » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:44 pm

I have beat the ever loving snot out of my Caribbean and it hasn't phased it in the slightest.

LC200N has INCREDIBLE toughness, holds a respectable edge for a long time, sharpens to a razor with very little effort, is almost fully corrosion proof and is fairly cheap relative to other steels that can compete with it.

What's not to like?

It may bug you, but I'll take it on everything. It's been a game changer in my book.

How about a Micro Dyad made entirely out of LC200N? :p

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VooDooChild
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby VooDooChild » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:53 pm

I had the lc200n mules when they came out and have been using it ever since. I like the steel, but it certainly does not hold an edge that well. Its not close to s30v no matter what some review says.

If the point is that you dont understand people asking for lc200n everything, then I get where you are coming from.

But if you are just saying you dont like it for your personal use then I dont understand the issue. It sounds like you can get away with using tool steels, carbon steels, and better stainless steels. It sounds like you dont need a salt series.

I dont know how many people really need a salt series knife. They were meant to live on the beach, be left in kayaks, be put away wet and dirty. I would pretty much argue if your knife doesnt see daily saltwater exposure, and by that I mean actually getting wet, then there are other better stainless options.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Evil D
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:03 pm

James Y wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:33 pm
I’ve read posts on BF by some people who favor super edge-holding steels, who say they touch up their knives after each day of use, because they’re afraid of losing the edge and having a difficult time restoring it. What’s the difference between that and using a so-called “lesser” steel that may not hold an edge as long, but takes a screaming sharp edge, holds it a decent amount of time, and is easy to resharpen?

Jim



This is literally what I used to do. You'll still hear me making the same suggestions too, "just don't let it get dull and it won't be hard to sharpen". A big part of that is having the right sharpening media to cut those types of steel but even with them I'd be lying if I said sharpening S110V is just as easy as LC200N. That's not even taking into consideration the chore of fixing edge damage or how much work it takes to reprofile a bevel. On one hand it may seem that I've gotten lazy, but the reality is I spend far less time sharpening now than I did with those super edge retention steels so for me they have the opposite effect and turn sharpening into a chore. I'm also far more willing to use my knife hard because I don't fear dulling or damaging the edge as much since it's a breeze to being it back.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: I do not like LC200N *rant*

Postby wrdwrght » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:13 pm

Check out Larrin’s “Recommended” for LC200N’s toughness results. Not too shabby.

I’ll take it along with its corrosion-resistance (even if neither is H1’s equal) and trade some edge-holding for sharpening-response.

Should everything be LC200N? Where’s the fun in that? But I’m glad to have the SpydieChef, Caribbean, and Waterway, and I’m looking forward to the Siren.


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