No Elmax Knives from Spyderco?

[BigHonu]

I got to use and sharpen a friends blade in Elmax, and was pretty impressed with the steel as an overall package. Sharpened easily, finishes pretty nice at higher grits, holds an edge decently. Not stellar in any one regard like Maxamet with edge retention, but not bad.

Looking at Larrin’s data it seems to have decent edge retention and toughness, and pretty good corrosion resistance to boot.

I see a lot of well deserved love for Cruwear and Zwear which looks to have similar characteristics, but not a lot of chatter around Elmax.

No knives in Elmax from Golden?

[Evil D]

The Lionspy was Elmax. I'm not sure why it didn't catch on more with Spyderco. Could just be too similar among so many other options.

[SG89]

There was a bentoboxshop exclusive pm2 in elmax. I used to have one. I believe it was the only Golden made elmax spydie.

[Deadboxhero]

I got to use and sharpen a friends blade in Elmax, and was pretty impressed with the steel as an overall package. Sharpened easily, finishes pretty nice at higher grits, holds an edge decently. Not stellar in any one regard like Maxamet with edge retention, but not bad.

Looking at Larrin’s data it seems to have decent edge retention and toughness, and pretty good corrosion resistance to boot.

I see a lot of well deserved love for Cruwear and Zwear which looks to have similar characteristics, but not a lot of chatter around Elmax.

No knives in Elmax from Golden?

In my opinion, there is more to explore with the newer steels that are locally produced here in the USA, Spy27 and S45VN that offer enhanced sharpenability with better edge stability.

Elmax is an expensive Import, what makes it sharpen so well is the high surplus of chromium carbides, they are softer and easier to shape, the microstructure was rather coarse compared to other PM stainless in the in the mid range.
The larger volume and size is detrimental to edge stability compared to other options on the market that offer similar characteristics.

Spy27 and S45VN offer finer, harder Carbides at reduced volume. While Spy27 will not have the raw wear resistance to match Elmax, S45VN was very close in Catra testing at the same geometry and similar hardness.

Edge stability is important because it means that the steel may be capable of pushing a higher hardness with less edge failure, also it will be capable of thinner geometry with less chance of blow outs.

So if one connects all the dots here, something that is technically less wear resistant may be able to out cut something slightly more wear resistant if the geometry at the edge is thinner and the steel is pushed harder thanks to the finer microstructure, but there are many details at play also.

However, dropping the total carbide volume and making up for it with harder carbides at lower volume has some merit.

This is why personally I haven't been crazy about Elmax for my custom knives, it's 2020 and there are better options to synergize edge performance on the market.

Folks that are diehard Elmax fans haven't gotten a chance to play with these other steels that show more promise.

[Albatross]

Elmax was popular a few years back, but other steels became more popular. I would imagine the market dried up, at least enough to make Elmax knives less profitable, or maybe not profitable at all, depending on the model. Sure, some will sell, but how many? Everyone wants M390 or an exotic, non-stainless steel. Elmax will eventually make a return, but I suspect that wont be until everyone is sick of M390, and wants an easier-to-maintain steel.

I'm hoping the M390 bubble bursts soon. It's a great steel, but variety is nice too.

[wrdwrght]

I got to use and sharpen a friends blade in Elmax, and was pretty impressed with the steel as an overall package. Sharpened easily, finishes pretty nice at higher grits, holds an edge decently. Not stellar in any one regard like Maxamet with edge retention, but not bad.

Looking at Larrin’s data it seems to have decent edge retention and toughness, and pretty good corrosion resistance to boot.

I see a lot of well deserved love for Cruwear and Zwear which looks to have similar characteristics, but not a lot of chatter around Elmax.

No knives in Elmax from Golden?

In my opinion, there is more to explore with the newer steels that are locally produced here in the USA, Spy27 and S45VN that offer enhanced sharpenability with better edge stability.

Elmax is an expensive Import, what makes it sharpen so well is the high surplus of chromium carbides, they are softer and easier to shape, the microstructure was rather coarse compared to other PM stainless in the in the mid range.
The larger volume and size is detrimental to edge stability compared to other options on the market that offer similar characteristics.

Spy27 and S45VN offer finer, harder Carbides at reduced volume. While Spy27 will not have the raw wear resistance to match Elmax, S45VN was very close in Catra testing at the same geometry and similar hardness.

Edge stability is important because it means that the steel may be capable of pushing a higher hardness with less edge failure, also it will be capable of thinner geometry with less chance of blow outs.

So if one connects all the dots here, something that is technically less wear resistant may be able to out cut something slightly more wear resistant if the geometry at the edge is thinner and the steel is pushed harder thanks to the finer microstructure, but there are many details at play also.

However, dropping the total carbide volume and making up for it with harder carbides at lower volume has some merit.

This is why personally I haven't been crazy about Elmax for my custom knives, it's 2020 and there are better options to synergize edge performance on the market.

Folks that are diehard Elmax fans haven't gotten a chance to play with these other steels that show more promise.

Eye-opening, as usual. Thanks.

[BigHonu]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Looks like I have some catching up to do with regards to steels after being absent from the knife world for 25 years or so. Never heard of Elmax before my friend asked me to sharpen his knife.

[JuPaul]

So I was "window shopping" Bark River knives the other day, and noticed they still use elmax a lot. Although it was interesting to see that they're also starting to offer s45vn options. I wonder if they're making that shift overall.

[TomAiello]

I have both a Pingo and Squeak in Elmax. I believe there was also an Urban (but maybe it was a UKPK?).

[ugaarguy]

Elmax is made in Sweden by Uddeholm side of the Bohler-Uddeholm steel manufacturing conglomerate. Sal has said here that Spyderco likes to use steels from the region or country where the knives are made. Recent tariffs on unfinished steel imports into the US and other countries have made that preference almost a necessity.

LionSteel of Italy does make some knives for Spyderco, and LionSteel buys most most of their blade steels from B-U (I presume because of distribution and tax advantages trading within the EU). Spyderco has the upcoming SpyOpera - https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... Opera/1877 - with a Bohler M390 blade. If the SpyOpera sells well, that's probably the knife with the best chance of getting a run in Elmax. However, I still don't that will happen for a couple of reasons. First, having owned knives in both Elmax and the two US equivalents of M390 (CTS-204P and CPM-20CV), I have to agree with some of the previous posts. While I think Elmax is a very good steels, I don't know that really does anything better than M390. Second, despite my personal preference for stainless steels, high speed tool steels have been extremely popular on Spyderco sprints and dealer exclusives. I haven't seen that demand start to decrease yet, either.

So, if you like Elmax, I think you should try M390 in the SpyOpera when it comes out. Or you could buy the Watu in 20CV now. Alternately, if you have deep pockets, some dealers still have the LionSteel TiSpine in stock, which does have an Elmax blade with an opening hole.

[BigHonu]

Elmax is made in Sweden by Uddeholm side of the Bohler-Uddeholm steel manufacturing conglomerate. Sal has said here that Spyderco likes to use steels from the region or country where the knives are made. Recent tariffs on unfinished steel imports into the US and other countries have made that preference almost a necessity.

LionSteel of Italy does make some knives for Spyderco, and LionSteel buys most most of their blade steels from B-U (I presume because of distribution and tax advantages trading within the EU). Spyderco has the upcoming SpyOpera - https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... Opera/1877 - with a Bohler M390 blade. If the SpyOpera sells well, that's probably the knife with the best chance of getting a run in Elmax. However, I still don't that will happen for a couple of reasons. First, having owned knives in both Elmax and the two US equivalents of M390 (CTS-204P and CPM-20CV), I have to agree with some of the previous posts. While I think Elmax is a very good steels, I don't know that really does anything better than M390. Second, despite my personal preference for stainless steels, high speed tool steels have been extremely popular on Spyderco sprints and dealer exclusives. I haven't seen that demand start to decrease yet, either.

So, if you like Elmax, I think you should try M390 in the SpyOpera when it comes out. Or you could buy the Watu in 20CV now. Alternately, if you have deep pockets, some dealers still have the LionSteel TiSpine in stock, which does have an Elmax blade with an opening hole.

Thanks for the insight. I do have a ZT 0456 in CPM 20CV which took a bit of work to reprofile. Not looking forward to doing that again. Still it was the biggest reprofile I’ve done in awhile, from 22dps to 17. I’m guessing subsequent sharpenings will be much easier.

[Doc Dan]

Elmax has got a cool name, but more modern steels offer more performance, as has been said.

[samdasnake]

The Lionspy was Elmax. I'm not sure why it didn't catch on more with Spyderco. Could just be too similar among so many other options.

Yeah you can still find lionspys at some dealers. I think I saw one at sooner state knives, if you’re really interested in an elmax Spyderco