Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

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VashHash
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby VashHash » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:00 pm

I also vote for micarta. I only wish the darn Dao had micarta instead of polished G10. It's a beautiful knife but I worry about sweaty hands slipping.

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PaleMoon
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby PaleMoon » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:42 pm

I'd like to see something like that, too. I was recently in the market for a versatile outdoors fixed blade, but nothing in the Spyderco catalog could really compete with ESEE, Fallkniven, Mora, etc.

That being said, if the only way to offer such a model in a more affordable package is to have it made in China, I'd skip. I've only bought one Chinese-made Spyderco so far, and the quality was so dismal that I've essentially written off anything else from that country.
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby cycleguy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:40 pm

Spyderco still needs to find their home run model with fixed blade knives!!! This would be one that appeals to the masses. One you will find in hunting camps, outdoorsman backpacks, recreational camper camps, tackle boxes, RV's, around the home and at the job. Not a specialized small niche model.

It also needs to be affordable as a base model (broader market appeal) and capable of being upscaled (for those wanting and willing to pay a little more).

As of now, my vote goes to the mule as their best candidate (it IS a sleeper). Blades have ranged from $20 to $110, G10 handle cost $45, and a sheath adds another $30. Range $95 to $185 - and non-China manufacture. Woohoo!!!! And what an awesome knife.

The design is Spyderco, mod, and functional. It could easily be lengthened and shortened and such as popular fixed blade models are as one size doesn't fit all. The temperance, previously mentioned, seems to fit within these parameters as well.

For handle material, I would stick to G10. For some reason I don't see FRN as a base model ... and I have never taken to rubber handle knives; and stacked leather doesn't do it either. If you can think of some rubber handled knives that have broad market appeal, please chime in. I've seen acrylics/plastics/polymers (don't know for certain what they are made of so I am trying to cover my *** here) well accepted with base model knives. What is the handle material on a USA buck fixed blade ... and I've seen them do an anniversary/sprint in red micarta for a little more cash. Think Western used an acrylic/plastic/polymer as well and those have held up over the years and so have the bucks.

Maybe marketing has a role to fill here to get people to migrate from their traditionals to Spydercos...????

Someday Dad's may be giving sons their first knife (Spyderco fixed blade) on their birthday!!! And they will grow up and do the same. Isn't this how the tradition went down with you?

MY .02,

CG
Last edited by cycleguy on Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby cycleguy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:48 pm

repeated post deleted
Last edited by cycleguy on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby cycleguy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:48 pm

repeated post deleted
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby TomAiello » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:10 pm

cycleguy wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:40 pm
Spyderco still needs to find their home run model with fixed blade knives!!! This would be one that appeals to the masses. One you will find in hunting camps, outdoorsman backpacks, recreational camper camps, tackle boxes, RV's, around the home and at the job. Not a specialized small niche model.
I don't know. The Bow River is pretty close.

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby carrot » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:26 pm

I can’t believe nobody mentioned the Enuff yet. I propose we consider what the AFK would look like if we used the Enuff as the basis for the first iteration.

Image

The Enuff is really, really close to being the perfect all-rounder fixed blade. I actually became so enamored with mine that I had custom kydex made and bought a second one so that I have one sheep’s SE and one leaf. I carry one or the other often, though aesthetically I much prefer a good hand-finished micarta. One thing that casual understanding of this knife’s handle belies is that despite being “opinionated” with a fat palm swell, nearly every grip imaginable works great. For those who haven’t handled the Enuff, the ergonomics are the best that the Stretch or Native III had to offer, or not entirely dissimilar from the Shaman.

If I have one criticism of the Enuff, it’s that the blade thickness is just a little too thick for the blade length. Lots of people like stout blades, but at the length of the thing we could get to 4”, 4.5” easy without changing the stock. Then, I would tweak the blade to a more “beautiful” traditional drop point shape, with enough belly, a stout point, and a sharp, flat spine. FFG is the obvious grind, but if a high hollow grind (but not too hollow!) is cheaper, HHG ala Sebenza/CRK would do.

We can reuse the Enuff FRN molds for this project until the AFK is proven out and can invest in (more refined? more specialized?) molds for an AFK II. Honestly, I don’t think it’d be necessary since the handles are fantastic, but for argument’s sake, if the AFK becomes deserving of more investment, new molds become more feasible.

I think that either CTS-XHP or BD-1N would be great as a base steel, with a run of something nicer for the steel snobs. Since the Enuff is already made in Seki, either the scales can be shipped back to the USA for those steels or we could try some local steel. I’d suggest cladded HAP40, since VG-10 is good, but not exotic enough for modern buyers.

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby z4vdBt » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:19 am

Something light and handy - like these two: Victorinox Peeler & Paring.

Image

Image

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby JRinFL » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:48 am

Well, to keep it Spyderco oriented how about this:
Image
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my enemies.

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:59 am

I have the K04 Utility. Great kitchen knife but the handle is too small for a field knife and the blade is thin and flexible. I would 100% use it as a fishing knife. I have even inquired with a sheath maker about a kydex sheath for it. Definitely wouldn’t use it for a field knife.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby Pancake » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:29 am

I agree with Darby. For a field knife, you need someting more substantial, a bit thicker spine that could handle some tasks, thicker handle to fill your hand.

Like, EDC fixed blade could be think with thin stock, most likely you are only going to cut with it, but a field knife should handle harder use.
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JRinFL
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby JRinFL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:52 am

I only posted the K04 because there were Victorinox kitchen knives mentioned immediately before my post, not because I felt it was appropriate for needs.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my enemies.

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby cycleguy » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:13 am

carrot wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:26 pm
I can’t believe nobody mentioned the Enuff yet. I propose we consider what the AFK would look like if we used the Enuff as the basis for the first iteration.

Image

The Enuff is really, really close to being the perfect all-rounder fixed blade. I actually became so enamored with mine that I had custom kydex made and bought a second one so that I have one sheep’s SE and one leaf. I carry one or the other often, though aesthetically I much prefer a good hand-finished micarta. One thing that casual understanding of this knife’s handle belies is that despite being “opinionated” with a fat palm swell, nearly every grip imaginable works great. For those who haven’t handled the Enuff, the ergonomics are the best that the Stretch or Native III had to offer, or not entirely dissimilar from the Shaman.

If I have one criticism of the Enuff, it’s that the blade thickness is just a little too thick for the blade length. Lots of people like stout blades, but at the length of the thing we could get to 4”, 4.5” easy without changing the stock. Then, I would tweak the blade to a more “beautiful” traditional drop point shape, with enough belly, a stout point, and a sharp, flat spine. FFG is the obvious grind, but if a high hollow grind (but not too hollow!) is cheaper, HHG ala Sebenza/CRK would do.

We can reuse the Enuff FRN molds for this project until the AFK is proven out and can invest in (more refined? more specialized?) molds for an AFK II. Honestly, I don’t think it’d be necessary since the handles are fantastic, but for argument’s sake, if the AFK becomes deserving of more investment, new molds become more feasible.

I think that either CTS-XHP or BD-1N would be great as a base steel, with a run of something nicer for the steel snobs. Since the Enuff is already made in Seki, either the scales can be shipped back to the USA for those steels or we could try some local steel. I’d suggest cladded HAP40, since VG-10 is good, but not exotic enough for modern buyers.
Lots I would agree with here. Extended version of the Enuff would make a good all-arounder general purpose knife!! Its current compact version isn't going to win broad appeal. I too like the handle and believe it begs for a longer blade than the current stubby fat spine one it sports. In fact I find it to be too much handle for a dwarf blade and find the handle isn't as nimble as the blade wants it to be (or how I use a shorty stubby fixed blade). I do understand the philosophy behind the knife is high force at the base of the blade near the handle which reasons the thick spine and substantial handle to impart the force. Unfortunately, in my hand the short blade screams for controlled tip work and slicing near the tip and along the belly.

In my eyes, once the blade is extended on the Enuff you pretty much have the mule; one having a ramp and the other not.

I still prefer the mule as I like the ramp and I like how Spyderco does the ramp. You can slide your thumb up onto the spine and use it comfortably which contrasts with most other ramps that form a hill and poke into your thumb if on top of it or just beyond it. I also prefer the more 3D handle the mule can be fitted with being the more comfortable grip for me.

Once the home run base model is figured out, there are so many variants to spin off of it. The compact, the extended, the lightweight, the scandi, the stainless, the tool steel, the tactical, the glam, the traditional, and so on...

I'd probably start out with S30V.

CG
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sal
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby sal » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:48 am

Hi Carrot, Cycleguy,

Thanx for the input. We'll make up an "Enuff 2" proto with 3mm stock and a 4" blade. As long as the handle doesn't change, there is little tooling costs for the handle. Tooling up for an FRN sheath would be expensive, but we'll make Kydex (Boltaron) sheaths for testing.

The Fixed blade design that I'm developing at this time has a very similar handle, though a bit longer.

sal

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:51 am

JRinFL wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:52 am
I only posted the K04 because there were Victorinox kitchen knives mentioned immediately before my post, not because I felt it was appropriate for needs.
It is a good knife that has uses outside of the kitchen. I remember Sal saying that it was popular with offshore fishermen. Just not a bushcraft knife.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:18 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:41 am
JD Spydo wrote: At the risk of sounding like a scratched 33 rpm record album I have maintained for a long time that the layout for an affordable fixed blade model is already there. Take the TEMPERANCE 1 model ( 2004-2006 era) which was available in both PE & SE with VG-10 blade steel. I had seen that model sell for as little as $60 even during it's hay-day. It was one of the few fixed blade models that was available in PE, SE and even with a black coated blade.

I still maintain that if the TEMP 1 was resurrected in LC200N in PE & SE and put it in the Salt Series as an affordable outdoor/sporting type fixed blade knife it would draw a lot of attention. Also use either the same or similar handle I believe it could be a home run on the sales charts.

Even to this day I've had some of my friends handle one of my TeMP 1 models and almost all of them say that the handle on the TEMP 1 is near perfect. Yes a Salt Series version of the TEMP 1 in SE & PE with a sheath that would work well in harsh environments. To this day I still like my TEMP 1 models better than I ever did the TEMP 2. The TEMP 1 is just perfect for so many uses and it's still about my favorite Spyderco fixed blade to this day.
The jumpmaster 2 sort of covers the serrated option. I wish I had more opportunities to use mine. I need to get outdoors more like I used to do.
You know in one sense this is like two choir members preaching at each other :D >> because I do like the Jumpmaster model. But unless you've owned and used a TEMPERANCE 1 model you have no idea as to how good of an outdoor knife that TEMP 1 is in PE & SE both.

However if they wanted to do a set of Jumpmaster models in SE (XHP) and PE ( M390 or K390) I would shut up for a while>> not forever mind you but at least for a while anyway :rolleyes:

The handle and the overall ergos of the TEMP 1 have had me loving that model ever since I got my first one in it's inception in about 2004 or thereabout. I've had very few handles on fixed blade knives fit me as perfectly as the handle on the TEMP 1 models. But a super version of a set of JUMPMASTER models ( PE & SE) would pacify me for a while anyway.

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby kennethsime » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:43 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:48 am
Hi Carrot, Cycleguy,

Thanx for the input. We'll make up an "Enuff 2" proto with 3mm stock and a 4" blade. As long as the handle doesn't change, there is little tooling costs for the handle. Tooling up for an FRN sheath would be expensive, but we'll make Kydex (Boltaron) sheaths for testing.

The Fixed blade design that I'm developing at this time has a very similar handle, though a bit longer.

sal
I like this idea a lot.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby captnvegtble » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:04 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:43 pm
sal wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:48 am
Hi Carrot, Cycleguy,

Thanx for the input. We'll make up an "Enuff 2" proto with 3mm stock and a 4" blade. As long as the handle doesn't change, there is little tooling costs for the handle. Tooling up for an FRN sheath would be expensive, but we'll make Kydex (Boltaron) sheaths for testing.

The Fixed blade design that I'm developing at this time has a very similar handle, though a bit longer.

sal
I like this idea a lot.
Me too. I love the ergonomics and blade shape of the Enuff. They only turn-off is the thickness of the blade and it's a little shorter than I typically use; so an Enuff 2 would be awesome!

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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby JRinFL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:03 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:48 am
Hi Carrot, Cycleguy,

Thanx for the input. We'll make up an "Enuff 2" proto with 3mm stock and a 4" blade. As long as the handle doesn't change, there is little tooling costs for the handle. Tooling up for an FRN sheath would be expensive, but we'll make Kydex (Boltaron) sheaths for testing.

The Fixed blade design that I'm developing at this time has a very similar handle, though a bit longer.

sal
This is intriguing. Will it be called the “More than Enuff”?
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my enemies.

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sal
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Re: Affordable fixed blade (AFK)

Postby sal » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:09 pm

Hi Jr,

That's a long name, but it is funny.

sal


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