Should I be Disappointed?

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Crash70
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Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Crash70 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:17 pm

Hey Spyderco People I just wanted to drop a line on an experience I had with warranty and see if I’m out of line for being disappointed. A little about myself I’m a huge Spyderco fan with about 15 current k Ives and 20 I total over my collecting career I’m a You Tuber with a knife channel (Not Nick Shabazz Size lol) and I’ve been off work with a medical injury for 3.5 years so any new knives I’ve had to trade sell current k Ives or tools and sharpen friends knives to afford any new stuff. I saved sharpened and sold a bunch of stuff to get a Spyderco Paysan a total grail knife and in short order needed to send for warranty with a stop pin issue. The knife is non repairable and needs to be replaced. That was 3 months ago or so. After the first month of waiting I was told I would have a $900 credit I could use towards a new Paysan or anything else. I asked if i could get a Bombshell and a Swayback and was told sure the Swayback was on back order and would be filled when one came in but the bombshell was flashbatch and would possibly be sent. So now 2 months go by with no update email and I see my YouTube buddies reviewing them and needless to say I’m really quite disappointed and I’m wondering if I’m out of line. I called the factory outlet today and was told they were sold out. I also emailed 2 days ago to find out the status and no answer back. In my mind I thought a customer who purchased our top of the line knife had issues with it I would want to go above and beyond and reserve a bombshell for the customer. I’m still a huge Spyderco fan and still am an advocate for a great product I’m just disappointed and I hope to be able to get 2 of my grail knives in the long run and if Eric or Sal read this and want me to contact them to resolve that would make my day. Please leave me some comments and if I’m out of line or do I have a right to be a little disappointed. Take care folks.
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Albatross
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Albatross » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:01 pm

I wouldn't get frustrated yet, Spyderco wont leave you high and dry. I'm sure you will hear back from them soon, or maybe even find a surprise package in the mail. They did say the Bombshell would "possibly" be sent.

I've never heard of Spyderco agreeing to replace a knife, but not following through with it, but I'm sure Sal and/or Kristi will have more to say on the subject.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby VooDooChild » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:04 pm

I would be upset about the Paysan having a major warranty issue, thats an expensive knife.

I would not be upset about not being able to get a bombshell. Sprint runs and flash batches are not regular production knives. Basically Spyderco is not going to reserve one for you or anybody else. Thats just the nature of the game.

I dont think the bombshell will sell as fast as some other knives. I would check the alert thread and I bet you could get one.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby JRinFL » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:11 pm

If it had happened to me in the manner you described, I would be disappointed as well. I'm confident they will work with you to ensure your satisfaction, but it might not be exactly as you would have hoped.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby JonLeBlanc » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:18 pm

Yeah I too would be disappointed at the Paysan issue, but I would be confident that Kristy et al will see this tread and will straighten out the situation. She’s very good at that.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm

I wouldn't have waited two months for any product from any company for any reason, I would definitely have touched base with them several times in that time frame especially if dealing with a limited production item I was afraid I might not get.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby GH9000 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:56 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm
I wouldn't have waited two months for any product from any company for any reason, I would definitely have touched base with them several times in that time frame especially if dealing with a limited production item I was afraid I might not get.
Spyderco is great with customer service. Although you may get a nice response here from someone who can take care of you. It might be more effective to give em a friendly call.

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Evil D
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:09 pm

GH9000 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:56 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm
I wouldn't have waited two months for any product from any company for any reason, I would definitely have touched base with them several times in that time frame especially if dealing with a limited production item I was afraid I might not get.
Spyderco is great with customer service. Although you may get a nice response here from someone who can take care of you. It might be more effective to give em a friendly call.


Every company is busy especially now with the Covid crap, they're trying to get by under new rules and likely don't have time to give anyone specialized attention.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm

The "I'm a Youtuber" does comes across kinda Richardy...

Just give them a call and talk to them. Don't expect special treatment, they are busy, but will surely take care of you.

However, in the case of limited quantity knives, you should maintain regular contact, or risk being disappointed.

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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:14 pm

I’d be extremely disappointed...but only in that particular knife. No reason to be disappointed in Spyderco, given the credit they have given you.

I’d also be disappointed that I could not convert this credit into acceptable alternatives. But, here, I would know (from being her over the years) there are absolutely no guarantees that discontinueds, exclusives, or sprints are kept in reserve at the mothership for cases like yours. That’s a well-known bummer, but you can still find value in what’s in production.

I’ve come to conclude that buying a super-expensive Spydie that is on the Disco’d list may be too late in the game to fix what ails it.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby kennethsime » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Today I learned that the Spyderco Paysan MSRPs for $800 and retails for $560.00. Holy expensive knives Batman!

I've always thought of the upper end of Spyderco knives was about $300-350, and that's for the really high-end custom collaborations, and these usually retail for more like $200-250. The CRK Sebenza is the only knife I've ever thought about spending that much money on, and that's probably the most I'd ever spend on a folder.

Not to say they're not worth it, I'm sure they are, but each of us have our own means and sense of value. To me, there comes a point of diminishing returns above a certain price point, and the Sebenza is just the only knife I've ever played with that felt like $300 in value. And yes, I know the gap has closed a bit in the last 10 years, and Sebenzas are closer to $500 than not.

So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?
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Sharp Guy
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:25 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?
Not saying it is or isn't worth more than something like a Seb but the one-piece integral handle on the Paysan can't be easy to make. Honestly, I fit & finish on the CRKs is great and all but I haven't been able to justify buying one. I've handled few now at local knife shops and I like them but not enough to spend that kind of money. I have plenty of other Ti frame locks that I'm really happy with for half the price or less
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kennethsime
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby kennethsime » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:07 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:25 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?
Not saying it is or isn't worth more than something like a Seb but the one-piece integral handle on the Paysan can't be easy to make. Honestly, I fit & finish on the CRKs is great and all but I haven't been able to justify buying one. I've handled few now at local knife shops and I like them but not enough to spend that kind of money. I have plenty of other Ti frame locks that I'm really happy with for half the price or less
Ok, that's a definite engineering marvel. I didn't realize the handle was all one piece.

I realize that value is in the eye of the beholder, and that these are expensive knives to make.

I asked a similar question on reddit about a Grimsmo Norseman, because the Sebenza is just the nicest knife I've played with and I can't really imagine spending 4x the price of that for anything not made of solid gold.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby wade7575 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:34 am

Crash70 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:17 pm
Hey Spyderco People I just wanted to drop a line on an experience I had with warranty and see if I’m out of line for being disappointed. A little about myself I’m a huge Spyderco fan with about 15 current k Ives and 20 I total over my collecting career I’m a You Tuber with a knife channel (Not Nick Shabazz Size lol) and I’ve been off work with a medical injury for 3.5 years so any new knives I’ve had to trade sell current k Ives or tools and sharpen friends knives to afford any new stuff. I saved sharpened and sold a bunch of stuff to get a Spyderco Paysan a total grail knife and in short order needed to send for warranty with a stop pin issue. The knife is non repairable and needs to be replaced. That was 3 months ago or so. After the first month of waiting I was told I would have a $900 credit I could use towards a new Paysan or anything else. I asked if i could get a Bombshell and a Swayback and was told sure the Swayback was on back order and would be filled when one came in but the bombshell was flashbatch and would possibly be sent. So now 2 months go by with no update email and I see my YouTube buddies reviewing them and needless to say I’m really quite disappointed and I’m wondering if I’m out of line. I called the factory outlet today and was told they were sold out. I also emailed 2 days ago to find out the status and no answer back. In my mind I thought a customer who purchased our top of the line knife had issues with it I would want to go above and beyond and reserve a bombshell for the customer. I’m still a huge Spyderco fan and still am an advocate for a great product I’m just disappointed and I hope to be able to get 2 of my grail knives in the long run and if Eric or Sal read this and want me to contact them to resolve that would make my day. Please leave me some comments and if I’m out of line or do I have a right to be a little disappointed. Take care folks.
I understand everything your saying about being bummed out about not getting a bombshell but don't forget with it being a flash run every spare knife may have already been spoken for by the dealers.

I know I would be angry if let's say they did a Shaman sprint run in S390 which I would love to see and if I got a bad one and it wasn't repairable and I was told I had to take a credit and they couldn't replace I would be really upset for sure to even if the credit was enough to get 2 S30V Shamans,for me I really can't stand S30V and I don't care if it's still 10 times better then 440 steel that I had when I was a kid,I tr to buy the knives that I like the most in M390 M4 S90V S110V and steels like that because to me S30V is like taking a bunch of major steps backwards.

This place in Canada sells the Paysan and it's in stock right now and they ship to the states with no problems at all and I have a few friends in the states that have dealt with them,also if you heard about Canada Customs taking knives that was knives coming into Canada not going out and that probelm is over for now.

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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:04 am

I would be upset. I handled a couple Nirvanas and they all had crazy lock stick. Like two hands to unlock bad. That would be very disappointing.

I can see how you could slip through the cracks in regards to not getting the bombshell and I would be upset too. I hope they can find one for you still. Seems like it was probably just an oversight.

In the end I believe that they will make it right. Keep contacting them until you are satisfied. That is what they want.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 am

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?


This is asking for a subjective answer, since all we can really do is compare what we know about the those models, and we don't actually know raw technical stuff like how the famous CRK tolerances compare to the Paysan. Beyond things like steel type vs steel type and non subjective things you can compare, you're getting into what each of us like best so you may not get the answer you want (not beyond what you already said...a round hole). Personally the Sebenza is an odd thing that I have great admiration for but absolutely refuse to buy because there are too may compromises that I'd have to make to spend $400+ on a knife. Comparing a Sebenza to a Nirvana/Paysan, some of those compromises go away if I choose the Spyderco option, but as you said there is always diminishing returns and I become super critical of any detail I don't absolutely love when I'm spending that kind of money, which is why I don't (and likely won't) own any of the knives discussed here.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby dodgie02 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:35 am

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 am
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?


This is asking for a subjective answer, since all we can really do is compare what we know about the those models, and we don't actually know raw technical stuff like how the famous CRK tolerances compare to the Paysan. Beyond things like steel type vs steel type and non subjective things you can compare, you're getting into what each of us like best so you may not get the answer you want (not beyond what you already said...a round hole). Personally the Sebenza is an odd thing that I have great admiration for but absolutely refuse to buy because there are too may compromises that I'd have to make to spend $400+ on a knife. Comparing a Sebenza to a Nirvana/Paysan, some of those compromises go away if I choose the Spyderco option, but as you said there is always diminishing returns and I become super critical of any detail I don't absolutely love when I'm spending that kind of money, which is why I don't (and likely won't) own any of the knives discussed here.
Well said. A wise man knows just enough to know he knows nothing. No point talking semantics without all the information. I tend to keep my purchases on the scale where I feel confident in using it without fear of damage etc.

I did get a sebenza though. And I got to say it was worth the price. It takes a time with the knife to really get it though. At first I thought like wow. Well build and absolutely flawless but at the end of the day it's a titanium s35vn blade, doesn't open and close as smooth as a pm2 let alone a zt, so I couldn't quite settle down on whether I thought the price was justified or not. However, I do now and without a big discussion about it. There's something extremely satisfying to have a blade which is so well made and designed that it basically embodies the saying 'less is more'. 2 scales, 3 pins, some washers and boom there's your blade. Nothing on there but what you need, so less stuff to go wrong possibly, but what it does have is build to perfection. Taking apart and cleaning can be a chore with some blades, but the seb a child could do it and end up with perfect no play centering every time. During my first disassembly I think it clicked for me. There's something to be said for that level of build quality for sure and it is worth the price to me. Though it is time to move on from s35vn. I know Mr reeve, you did great on s30v and your own 35vn but there as times moves on so should the product. My 2 cents.

I'm not eager to buy a super expensive spyderco but they have themselves to blame. Shouldn't have made your 'midrange' blades this well build guys!
So that's my argument, I never would get an anthem from bm for that reason too.

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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby The Deacon » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:01 am

kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?

Don't know, but perhaps it's that they're production versions of far more expensive custom knives that are unlikely to ever be made in large quantities, while the Sebenza's been around for a couple decades. They might also be more expensive because machining a framelock's handle out of one solid block of titanium is probably a much more expensive proposition that machining two flat slabs an a couple standoffs.
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:08 am

dodgie02 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:35 am
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 am
kennethsime wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 pm
So, question: What makes the Paysan, or Nirvana (the other Peter Rassenti collaboration) worth more than a CRK Sebenza? Obviously a round hole, and bit nicer steel. What else?


This is asking for a subjective answer, since all we can really do is compare what we know about the those models, and we don't actually know raw technical stuff like how the famous CRK tolerances compare to the Paysan. Beyond things like steel type vs steel type and non subjective things you can compare, you're getting into what each of us like best so you may not get the answer you want (not beyond what you already said...a round hole). Personally the Sebenza is an odd thing that I have great admiration for but absolutely refuse to buy because there are too may compromises that I'd have to make to spend $400+ on a knife. Comparing a Sebenza to a Nirvana/Paysan, some of those compromises go away if I choose the Spyderco option, but as you said there is always diminishing returns and I become super critical of any detail I don't absolutely love when I'm spending that kind of money, which is why I don't (and likely won't) own any of the knives discussed here.
Well said. A wise man knows just enough to know he knows nothing. No point talking semantics without all the information. I tend to keep my purchases on the scale where I feel confident in using it without fear of damage etc.

I did get a sebenza though. And I got to say it was worth the price. It takes a time with the knife to really get it though. At first I thought like wow. Well build and absolutely flawless but at the end of the day it's a titanium s35vn blade, doesn't open and close as smooth as a pm2 let alone a zt, so I couldn't quite settle down on whether I thought the price was justified or not. However, I do now and without a big discussion about it. There's something extremely satisfying to have a blade which is so well made and designed that it basically embodies the saying 'less is more'. 2 scales, 3 pins, some washers and boom there's your blade. Nothing on there but what you need, so less stuff to go wrong possibly, but what it does have is build to perfection. Taking apart and cleaning can be a chore with some blades, but the seb a child could do it and end up with perfect no play centering every time. During my first disassembly I think it clicked for me. There's something to be said for that level of build quality for sure and it is worth the price to me. Though it is time to move on from s35vn. I know Mr reeve, you did great on s30v and your own 35vn but there as times moves on so should the product. My 2 cents.

I'm not eager to buy a super expensive spyderco but they have themselves to blame. Shouldn't have made your 'midrange' blades this well build guys!
So that's my argument, I never would get an anthem from bm for that reason too.


See this is the subjective part.....I don't think I would ever argue that the price isn't "worth it", people confuse worth with preference all the time. I think for how much machining and such as goes into a Sebenza, the price seems pretty fair to me, which makes it "worth the cost". The subjective part is, do I LIKE the overall design enough to pay that price? It's the little things like thumb studs vs a thumb hole and some other details that bother me that keep me from buying one. A few of those details are the same with the Paysan and Nirvana too. For me it's really the subjective/opinion based "worth it" boxes that need to be checked off before the value based "worth it" box is checked and I actually buy the thing. It may be the most well built knife in existence but if the subjective qualities aren't there then I'm still not buying it.

In other words, all the build quality in the world doesn't necessarily make up for not liking the design, and you can't place "worth" on a design because it's so subjective. I have no doubt that I would be impressed with the build quality and such, but when I really look at it...that's honestly the only attraction I have for a Sebenza. I guess I'm just one of those guys who would rather wear a Timex watch if it kept better time than a Rolex.






Also, this thread has gotten super derailed :o
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Re: Should I be Disappointed?

Postby sal » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:44 am

Hi Crash,

Welcome to our forum. Thanx much for your interest and support and sorry for your disappointment.

Everything at Spyderco is scrambled due to the Virus and everything is taking longer than normal. Many working from home, spread out in the factory. Even Customer service is working odd shifts to keep going.

I'll contact Charlynn and see what I can learn.

sal


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