My Manix 2

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
DavidGellai
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My Manix 2

Postby DavidGellai » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm

I don't usually write this type of open letters but this get me hard and I want to make sure it gets to someone who loves Spyderco.
I have a gen 1 Manix 2 (154CM and saber grind), and I wrote the naive email to Costumer service about my urge to buy an updated blade namely: S30V - FFG.
The response made me angry. I copy it here:
"There are a few reasons we do not sell or even offer blade replacement but the biggest is constant quality improvement. While always searching to make a better product the specs change more than one would think and a blade that we use on a Military today will not fit the lock up of a knife that we made even a year ago. Unfortunately over time things will wear out and reach the end of their useful life. In addition while are always striving to make a better product it means many times when a knife has a warranty issue it cannot be fixed so it’s replaced under warranty and not repaired. Please let me know if I can help answer any questions you may have."
What angers me the most it says nothing and does not offer a solution just an open and meaningless act of help. Basically what this letter says is: Thank you for buying our product but now you are on your own.
And this is not the type of company that I can or want to trust with my money.
I know some who reads this will say that I am just a whiny and just man up and buy another knife but this is not the case. This few sentences of bullsh#t means that Spyderco is so changing that you may can't trust them they can deliver the same thing twice.
I am a mechanical engineer and a programmer. I know a thing or two about tolerances and product development. Saying something like the response above is so not backed up with anything that it hurts me. I wrote the letter to request the upgrade and in 2 hours I received the response. It is super fast response but means that they just want to get rid of me and does not want to help.
Custom parts are available for the Manix 2 for years now, and the companies that make them could manage the "follow up". Even the concurrency can do a simple blade swap for $30 or even a steel upgrade (countless stories from Benchmade that a guy sends in his knife and gets it with the upgraded steel).
But this is still not the part that pisses me off completely. The part is not even in the response. The part is that I am just a random guy from Europe (Hungary specifically) and I love the knife, but I lack something that means I can't receive treatment even if I wanted to pay, and that something is recognition. I do not have a Youtube channel, I am not a farmer that you can buy with a publicity stunt where you send a $200+ knife and a bunch of items to help him "heal" (fidgeter who created a video where he accused Spyderco that the company ruined his arm with a knife that is so irresistibly fidget-able that he can't use his arm without pain...)
But I am getting a bit salty so I finish my open letter here with a request:
Dear Sal & Eric Glesser!
I just need an explanation backed up with a fact that the manufacturing details of the gen 1 Manix 2 contains a tolerance zone change compared to the gen 2 Manix 2 that made it impossible to fit a new blade in the old frame.
And by the way if the wear of a product could destroy it's compatibility with it's mint self in 10 years (speaking of the first release of my knife) then it is not heirloom quality it's just another one of a dozen that is not worth to buy.

Albertaboyscott
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby Albertaboyscott » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:24 am

You're a mech engineer and cant afford to just go out and buy a new one? Come on man. You must be bored sending this in.

Spydergirl88
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:47 am

Holy first world problems, Batman! You say that you are a mechanical engineer and that you understand tolerances...it doesn't seem like you really do understand them.

Sumdumguy
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:52 am

Image

Your choice. :p

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TkoK83Spy
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby TkoK83Spy » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:57 am

Wow...what an entrance!
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Civivi Elementum

-Rick

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TazKristi
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby TazKristi » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:59 am

Hi, David:
Welcome to the Spyderco Forum. I'm sorry to hear that you were so disappointed. Let me first address your comment regarding the gentleman with the YouTube channel, Farmer E. Our Warranty & Repair department had nothing to do with that. In fact, I'm the person who sent him the care package. I did so because it's something we occasionally do in marketing. It has nothing to do with a publicity stunt as much as it did with simply supporting a kind, funny individual who uses products that we manufacture. If you stick around long enough you'll see that we do nice things for nice people (some of them on this forum - they don't have YouTube channels either). We won't apologize for that.

Your Manix 2 was manufactured between 2009 - 2012. That's 9-11 years ago. We've applied countless CQI changes to the Manix 2 in that time (most of them documented on this very forum). I'm sorry to say that if we were to send you a blade from a current Manix 2, it wouldn't be a simple swap. What you're asking for simply isn't possible.

You mentioned another knife company's policy about simple blade swaps. We're not them. We're about 1/4 the size by staff, and that's by design. But that aside, the logistics, space, and staff required to maintain an inventory of spare blades (and other parts) to fit every past configuration of even just our core products... it's just not feasible. In many ways, it's similar to computers. If I had a computer that was manufactured 10 years ago, I would not expect to be able to put the latest processor in it today. I understand that knives and computers are two very different products, but the principle is the same.

I'm curious, you didn't mention that there was an issue with your Manix 2. Is there an issue? If so, could you describe that? We'll do our best to help you.

We hope you enjoy your time here with us.

Kristi
There is nothing more important than this one day.

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ChrisinHove
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby ChrisinHove » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:15 pm

That’s a nicer response than I could have written.

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spyderg
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby spyderg » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:35 pm

First thought was this is a troll post, but it seems too long winded to be so. Reading through it seems like He got a reasonable response initially and more detailed, very polite response from Kristi. I’m not sure what he’s upset about based on the information provided. He asked for something a company doesn’t offer, was told no with a basic explanation as to why.
A while back I had mentioned that I’d love a mule but shipping costs to Canada are too high. I think it was Kristi, came on here and while she wasn’t able to do anything about the shipping cost, offered a couple possible ideas and was open to suggestions moving forward. I still don’t have a mule as nothing really came of it but I’m not having a fit just because I didn’t get my way!?
If you're wielding the sharpest tool in the shed, who's going to say that you aren't...?

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SubMicron
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby SubMicron » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:42 pm

DavidGellai wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm
I know some who reads this will say that I am just a whiny...
Yup.
DavidGellai wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm
I am a mechanical engineer and a programmer. I know a thing or two about tolerances and product development.
None of that means you know how to run a knife company, or any company at all, which is why you shouldn't be giving advice on the subject.

Spyderco has done no wrong to you.

DavidGellai wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm
Dear Sal & Eric Glesser!
I just need an explanation backed up with a fact that the manufacturing details of the gen 1 Manix 2 contains a tolerance zone change compared to the gen 2 Manix 2 that made it impossible to fit a new blade in the old frame.

No, you WANT an explanation so you can try and overcome their objection. Even if they've made zero changes to the model you're interested in, their point is still valid. They owe you nothing.

Spyderco does not sell blade replacements or blade upgrades. Period. They will warranty your knife and send a modern replacement.

To stock parts for every version of every knife model they've made over the last 44 years would be financially impossible.
DavidGellai wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm
And by the way if the wear of a product could destroy it's compatibility with it's mint self in 10 years (speaking of the first release of my knife) then it is not heirloom quality it's just another one of a dozen that is not worth to buy.
Now you're being completely unreasonable.

No knife ever made will stand the test of time if you're actually using it. Any hard use or volume of use will use up any knife.

The cheapest most poorly made knife can be a "heirloom" knife if its maintained and not used up.

The last time I checked, Spyderco makes knifes that are intended to be used, not knives intended to sit around doing nothing except waiting to be passed on through the generations.

Either do a warranty replacement or just buy what you want. Its pretty straightforward.

DavidGellai
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby DavidGellai » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:43 pm

Dear Kristi,

My original post turned out to be aggressive and harsh. I apologize for that. But your colleagues answer pissed me off so hard that it ignited my sleep deprivation and unsuccessful approach to upgrade my blade. I was around a while and I understand the marketing side of the Farmer E care package. It was just so maddening from my point of view at that brief moment that he gets a bunch of staff free and I can't get a simple blade when I asked for it and was willing to pay the actual cost.

It was my bad that I wasn't thorough enough with my request in the means of the CQI changes that addressed thru the years. I love my Manix 2. It fits my like a glove, but recently my tasks contains a lot of cuts where the saber grind inferior opposed to the FFG.
I know that your not the other knife companies and I like that. I like myself a good ZT as much as the next guy, but when I go against a serious task where I need absolute security I use my Spyderco knife. My wife's favorite knife is a Para 3 (that was mine and she confiscated it in a really sort time after arrival) .

But just for my own thought experiment. The first scenario: I asked for an impossible swap you told me that is impossible I said that newer mind just send me the blade, I pay you the cost of the blade and everyone is happy. You send it, I pay for it and try to install it and it fails. The only outcome from your perspective is a big I told you so and I will end up a very fancy (and scary sharp) letter opener. But fine I do accept your decision it is just unclear to me that you cannot lose on this money or reputation so why don't you do that?

And for once again, my Manix functions properly and it is fun to play with, just not the best for my new tasks.

Thank you for your kindness for answering me and hope we can be company and fan again in the future!

PS.: My first upgraded knife was a Byrd Meadowlark 2 (huge step up from gas station level of knives), after that I had a Persistence for a while which quickly launched me to order a Para 3 when it were announced that were followed by a Native 5 G10 and somewhere during those times I swapped my Paramilitary 2 with my budy for this Manix 2 and that was how I arrived here. A heck of a journey.

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Tucson Tom
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby Tucson Tom » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:02 pm

I might have some sympathy if he actually had a problem with his knife, but it seems that he just wants to "upgrade" it without the expense of buying a new knife. It is entirely Spyderco's choice if they want to offer that kind of service, and they don't -- for completely reasonable reasons that have been reasonably explained (to my fairly reasonable tastes).

It would be like my wanting to put parts from a 2020 Toyota Tacoma into my 2000 Tacoma to upgrade it to 2020 specs. It just ain't happening. It is even getting impossible to get some repair parts from Toyota for my old model, but that is a different topic and has no analogy here. My guess is that if there was actually a problem with the knife that wasn't due to abuse, Spyderco might do something for this guy.

The Meat man
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby The Meat man » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:23 pm

What is there to be angry about? If there's a warranty issue with your knife Spyderco will make it good. Don't come here just to throw a temper tantrum because you can't get what you want.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

bouhunter
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby bouhunter » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:25 pm

Good grief. Move on and get over it.

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RustyIron
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Manix 2 blades for sale online. Act now.

Postby RustyIron » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:50 pm



You can order blades for the Manix 2 directly from Spyderco's web page. This is a once-in-a-lifetime deal that will last only until the Manix 2 is no longer made. If you order now and are one of the first ten callers, or one of the other callers who calls in later than that, you not only get the blade for the Manix 2, but you get extra scales, ball lock, spring, clip, screws, liners, and spacers.

Click here to order yours now:
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... -Blade/592


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JustinB
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby JustinB » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:56 pm

Genuinely not sure how to respond here. If you want a S30v Manix, get one. If you are that worried about money, sell your "mint" one in 154. I'm sure it could catch a pretty penny and you could easily afford a new Manix in S30v. This just seems like whining for whining sake *shrug*
Justin :spyder:

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SubMicron
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby SubMicron » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:36 pm

DavidGellai wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:43 pm
Dear Kristi,

My original post turned out to be aggressive and harsh. I apologize for that. But your colleagues answer pissed me off so hard that it ignited my sleep deprivation and unsuccessful approach to upgrade my blade. I was around a while and I understand the marketing side of the Farmer E care package. It was just so maddening from my point of view at that brief moment that he gets a bunch of staff free and I can't get a simple blade when I asked for it and was willing to pay the actual cost.
What it really sounds like is that you're jealous that someone got a free knife. His situation has nothing to do with your situation.

Farmer E was nice enough to do a video about his beloved Spyderco knife. This helped promote Spyderco and sending him a care package is the least they could have done.

I'm sure no one really believes he hurt his arm by flicking his knife so much. He made an entertaining video, about a pocket knife, that actually was fun to watch.

In most industries, its common for social media influencers, such as popular Youtubers to be gifted items.

In your case, you're asking them to sell something that they do not sell, which is why they told you no.

You're not the first person to bring this up and your not the first person to get mad about it.

Stop and take a look at how many models of knives Spyderco has. They've been around for 44 years. In order to stock replacement blades for every single knife they've ever made, they would have to set up a whole new building just to have enough space to warehouse all of it. Then they would have to hire and pay people to staff and maintain the warehouse.

Who do you think pays for that? ALL costs of any business are passed on to the end customers through the cost of the product. That means every single knife they sell would undergo a cost increase.

I dont know why you're getting so bent out of shape over getting a S30V blade to replace your 154CM. It's not even a big upgrade compared to what else is available from Spyderco.
Last edited by SubMicron on Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

W7H2O
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby W7H2O » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:15 pm

I think I lost some brain cells over this thread.

If you don't like the knife:
*Trade it
*Sell it
*Gift it
*Use as a beater knife

BornIn1500
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby BornIn1500 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:40 pm

DavidGellai wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:43 pm
You send it, I pay for it and try to install it and it fails. The only outcome from your perspective is a big I told you so and I will end up a very fancy (and scary sharp) letter opener.
Here's what could happen... people with older knives with broken blades would get a newer version's replacement blade. It wouldn't fit right, but they'd put it on sloppily anyway, then sell the terrible knife online. Now there are (hypothetically) many knives branded Spyderco that have terrible quality issues and it comes back to bite them on their reputation. Your theoretical "only outcome" may be short-sighted.

bdblue
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby bdblue » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:14 pm

What do you want them to do for you? There is another knife company that will replace your blade for a fee, but the problem is that they run out of blades and then they can't help you any further. So you're back in the same boat of needing to buy another knife.

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Sharp Guy
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Re: My Manix 2

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:52 pm

Nothing to really say here that hasn't already been said.

Welcome to the Spyderco Forums David! Stick around awhile. If your mind hasn't already been changed regarding Spyderco as a company, it won't take long and you'll see how it really is
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!


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