M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
New article about M390 steel, which has a surprisingly convoluted history in knives. The steel was released prior to many other powder metallurgy stainless steels, but was never used in knives to any great extent until a couple decades later. I also summarized its properties including microstructure, edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance, etc. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/01/ ... -and-204p/
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
You have a tremendous gift of taking complex knowledge and making it accessible to a layperson like myself. Many thanks for your hard work and sharing your expertise.
Do right always. It will give you satisfaction in life.
--Wovoka
--Wovoka
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Thank you!
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives
- dj moonbat
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Looking at all those rankings in different categories, I realize I need to learn more about Vanax. Have you written on it, Larrin?
I was also reassured to see that I was right in my skepticism of claims that M390 was relatively tough. I am slowly getting better at figuring out what a steel’s chemistry is likely to do. The added variable of heat treat protocol still baffles me, though.
I was also reassured to see that I was right in my skepticism of claims that M390 was relatively tough. I am slowly getting better at figuring out what a steel’s chemistry is likely to do. The added variable of heat treat protocol still baffles me, though.
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
I don’t have an article just like this one on Vanax, but I have written about it before:dj moonbat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:11 amLooking at all those rankings in different categories, I realize I need to learn more about Vanax. Have you written on it, Larrin?
I was also reassured to see that I was right in my skepticism of claims that M390 was relatively tough. I am slowly getting better at figuring out what a steel’s chemistry is likely to do. The added variable of heat treat protocol still baffles me, though.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/ ... fe-steels/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/03/25/ ... ing-vanax/
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Good stuff, Larrin, as always. Thanks for the education.
- Retired from the chase -
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Thank you very much for the article. Subscribed!
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Thank you Larrin! Awesome article!
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
I learned a lot from reading this latest article, thanks Larrin. M390/20CV is one of those steels that is off my radar, so to speak (primarily because it's mostly found in knives that are at a price point above what I'm accustomed to paying for a work folder), so it was nice to get a detailed look at its properties.
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
It’s taken me a while to really get a handle on this steel so it was nice to get it all written down.zuludelta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:11 pmI learned a lot from reading this latest article, thanks Larrin. M390/20CV is one of those steels that is off my radar, so to speak (primarily because it's mostly found in knives that are at a price point above what I'm accustomed to paying for a work folder), so it was nice to get a detailed look at its properties.
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Thanks Larrin!
This latest article supports something I've always suspected; that m390 and its analogs are not as tough as claimed.
This latest article supports something I've always suspected; that m390 and its analogs are not as tough as claimed.
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Corrosion resistance is inconsequential to me most of the time, so it's seeming like ease of sharpening is about the only advantage M390/20CV/204P gives me over S30V. All this testing is really making me appreciate S30V more as a good all around knife steel at a reasonable price... And I think I'm also starting to understand why Spyderco switched from S35VN to S30V.
Good stuff as always Larrin!
Good stuff as always Larrin!
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
I agree... Larrin's articles have made me appreciate S30V that much more. It really is a great all-around knife steel for its price. You can get a tougher steel, or a more corrosion-resistant steel, or one with more wear-resistance, but there will be a trade-off either in cost or one of the other physical properties and at least for my purposes, that trade-off usually isn't worth it. I mean, if I need a steel that is significantly more corrosion-resistant than S30V (or VG-10 for that matter), that's probably because I'm going to be in or around saltwater for an extended time, and if that's the case, I'm taking a purpose-designed water knife in H1 or LC200N.
Additionally, this article also made me appreciate Spyderco's decision to go with S110V as the long-wearing stainless steel for the company's Golden models.
I will admit, when Spyderco announced a few years ago that they were switching the Native 5 and Native 5 Lightweight from S35VN to S30V for performance reasons (right at the time when many other companies were switching to S35VN as their entry-level "prestige steel"), I was a little skeptical—I thought it was probably motivated more by a desire to limit production costs.
But now that I have a better understanding of the properties I find useful in a folding knife and after seeing all this independent testing by Larrin, I get why Spyderco did what it did. The extra toughness & incremental improvement in stainlessness of S35VN doesn't really outweigh S30V's edge-holding and price advantage as far as what I use folding knives for (I still love my S35VN Native 5 Lightweight though).
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Thanks again for another chunk of great knowledge you are kind enough to share with us Larrin :) I got my first M390 folder about 4 years ago when I traded one of my Captain models for a slightly used M390 Military model. It now ranks as one of my very best trades of all time. Oh I know that M390 isn't the best blade steel on the planet but I sure like it. But that C-36 Military with M390 blade steel is one great plain edged folder :cool:
I've had many C-36 Military models in about 10 different blade steels over the years but until I got that M390 Military folder I had never had a plain edged blade steel that takes the punishment that I give my EDC folder during the typical week like my M390 Military can endure. If there is a supersteel that can outperform M390 by a wide margin that will be the next Military model I'll purchase.
I hope some day Larrin we can do some tests on different blade steels and how they perform in SE. Thanks again buddy for sharing all this great information with us
I've had many C-36 Military models in about 10 different blade steels over the years but until I got that M390 Military folder I had never had a plain edged blade steel that takes the punishment that I give my EDC folder during the typical week like my M390 Military can endure. If there is a supersteel that can outperform M390 by a wide margin that will be the next Military model I'll purchase.
I hope some day Larrin we can do some tests on different blade steels and how they perform in SE. Thanks again buddy for sharing all this great information with us
- Tucson Tom
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Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
Very nice article. Thanks for taking the time to research it all and write it up.
There is no question that there is a lot more work invested than meets the eye.
Thanks.
There is no question that there is a lot more work invested than meets the eye.
Thanks.
Re: M390 Steel – History and Properties (and 20CV and 204P)
I wasted two days tracking down sources on a defunct steel called MV11K that didn't even make it into the article!Tucson Tom wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:32 pmVery nice article. Thanks for taking the time to research it all and write it up.
There is no question that there is a lot more work invested than meets the eye.
Thanks.
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