Manix 2 Lock Stick

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TkoK83Spy
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Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun May 31, 2020 3:59 pm

Today I decided the Rex45 version deserved the Putman micarta scales. I've swapped scales on a few of Manix's now, pretty easy and straight forward.

For some reason on this one, this time (2nd time I've swapped scales on it now) I've been dialing in the screws to give it the smooth action with no blade play. After opening and closing it repeatedly around 10 times, when the blade is out and the lock is engaged, for some reason it becomes stuck that way and won't disengage until I loosen all the screws. I've compared the way it looks opened, closed and in the process of slowly engaging and disengaging and it looks the same as the other Manix's.

I've never had this happen before, and it's happened twice in a row now as I've been trying to dial it in. Taking a break and seeing what all you think could be the issue here?? I don't want to take any chances of damaging the cbbl. Very stumped right now :confused:
20 :spyder:'s in 13 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Benchmade 940 (BHQ Exclusive/M4)
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays

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VooDooChild
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby VooDooChild » Sun May 31, 2020 4:39 pm

I base this off nothing but maybe your scales arent parallel.
Maybe it was very sensitive to which screws went where?
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JuPaul
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby JuPaul » Sun May 31, 2020 4:47 pm

I'm not sure if it's the same issue, but I had a heck of a time swapping scales with the rex45 manix and the 4v manix the other night. Both locks were super smooth to begin with, especially on the rex45. When I swapped the orange scales to the 4v manix, and the lock was all of the sudden super sticky, and very difficult to disengage. I took off the orange scales and tried the new terotuf ones. Same issue! Finally I swapped the cbbl cage from the rex45 manix AND the orange scales both to the 4v manix, and voila, perfect lock action again. It was like either the cbbl cages - or the cutouts on the scales - were slightly different sizes and the lock wouldn't run smoothly when they were swapped.
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SteveMidwest
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby SteveMidwest » Sun May 31, 2020 9:30 pm

I have at times (rarely), needed to take a drill bit, in a pin vise (General tools #93), and make the four screw holes, ever so slightly larger. Giving more room for things to better line-up, and have room for slight adjustment. If I remember correctly? Because it's been a while. Just before putting the final snug on each of the four screws (The last turn). I push down on the open blade-tip. Into a piece of wood. Putting a little pressure on the blade, which also pushes back the cage ramp slightly. Then I snug the four screws up finally, with that pressure in place.

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby DougC-3 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 am

SteveMidwest wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:30 pm
I have at times (rarely), needed to take a drill bit, in a pin vise (General tools #93), and make the four screw holes, ever so slightly larger. Giving more room for things to better line-up, and have room for slight adjustment. If I remember correctly? Because it's been a while. Just before putting the final snug on each of the four screws (The last turn). I push down on the open blade-tip. Into a piece of wood. Putting a little pressure on the blade, which also pushes back the cage ramp slightly. Then I snug the four screws up finally, with that pressure in place.
I've had that problem a few times when changing scales, sometimes Putman and once or twice, original, sometimes involving a Ti ball cage. (I'm just talking about the ball being a little, or occasionally a lot, sticky and making a little noise when disengaging -- nothing like the knife being frozen open as described in the OP). Once on an older knife with oddball scales (abused by a previous owner) it got so bad I finally filed down the lower surface of the upper bearing race so it wouldn't press down so much on the ball. The metal was so hard I couldn't really tell that I was removing anything, but it finally worked. More recently my Rex 45 Manix got a little sticky without even changing scales. I just tried your trick, without enlarging holes, and it got about 90% better. Thanks for the tip! When pressing down on the wood, do you hold the knife at an angle as though cutting, or vertically?

I think this is just a matter of getting the 4 screws to hold the bearing ramp in exactly the right place. I can't help but wonder if the guys that do this at the factory don't have some simple procedure that works every time.
:spyder: :cool:

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby SteveMidwest » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:27 pm

DougC-3 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 am
SteveMidwest wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:30 pm
I have at times (rarely), needed to take a drill bit, in a pin vise (General tools #93), and make the four screw holes, ever so slightly larger. Giving more room for things to better line-up, and have room for slight adjustment. If I remember correctly? Because it's been a while. Just before putting the final snug on each of the four screws (The last turn). I push down on the open blade-tip. Into a piece of wood. Putting a little pressure on the blade, which also pushes back the cage ramp slightly. Then I snug the four screws up finally, with that pressure in place.
I've had that problem a few times when changing scales, sometimes Putman and once or twice, original, sometimes involving a Ti ball cage. (I'm just talking about the ball being a little, or occasionally a lot, sticky and making a little noise when disengaging -- nothing like the knife being frozen open as described in the OP). Once on an older knife with oddball scales (abused by a previous owner) it got so bad I finally filed down the lower surface of the upper bearing race so it wouldn't press down so much on the ball. The metal was so hard I couldn't really tell that I was removing anything, but it finally worked. More recently my Rex 45 Manix got a little sticky without even changing scales. I just tried your trick, without enlarging holes, and it got about 90% better. Thanks for the tip! When pressing down on the wood, do you hold the knife at an angle as though cutting, or vertically?

I think this is just a matter of getting the 4 screws to hold the bearing ramp in exactly the right place. I can't help but wonder if the guys that do this at the factory don't have some simple procedure that works every time.

I hold it at an angle, as though cutting. To get that ball ramp to move back, just a tiny bit. I'm sure the other way would work just as well though.

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby vivi » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:17 am

Well after dying my M4 Manix I'm having lock stick for my first time. Short of taking it apart and putting it back together again, any tips? I tried pushing down on the blade when screwing in the locks frame and it helped a bit but not enough.

Couldn't eliminate the lock clicking when I open the knife either.
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby JMM » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:25 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:59 pm
Today I decided the Rex45 version deserved the Putman micarta scales. I've swapped scales on a few of Manix's now, pretty easy and straight forward.

For some reason on this one, this time (2nd time I've swapped scales on it now) I've been dialing in the screws to give it the smooth action with no blade play. After opening and closing it repeatedly around 10 times, when the blade is out and the lock is engaged, for some reason it becomes stuck that way and won't disengage until I loosen all the screws. I've compared the way it looks opened, closed and in the process of slowly engaging and disengaging and it looks the same as the other Manix's.

I've never had this happen before, and it's happened twice in a row now as I've been trying to dial it in. Taking a break and seeing what all you think could be the issue here?? I don't want to take any chances of damaging the cbbl. Very stumped right now :confused:
It sounds sorta like you are experiencing what happens in the ball cage is flipped 'wrong-way-around' (upside down) -- you might just double check it... :)

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 am

vivi wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:17 am
Well after dying my M4 Manix I'm having lock stick for my first time. Short of taking it apart and putting it back together again, any tips? I tried pushing down on the blade when screwing in the locks frame and it helped a bit but not enough.

Couldn't eliminate the lock clicking when I open the knife either.
I found the issue with all mine when doing scale swaps, was having to tinker more with the screws above the pivot screw near the jimping. Try loosening those up a bit.
20 :spyder:'s in 13 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Benchmade 940 (BHQ Exclusive/M4)
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays

-Rick

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby Accutron » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 am

It sounds like the cage is upside down.

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby Pancake » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:00 am

Mine REX 45 G10 had lockstick from the box, and it still has lockstick after half a year of opening and closing :eek: :D
I guess I just live with it.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby Lumpy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:46 am

I’m going to echo the other posts that mentioned the ball bear cage is backwards. I did that the first time I took apart a manix and it sounds exactly like what happened to me.

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby vivi » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:40 am

I put my cage in so the ball doesn't fall out unless you flip it upside down. Should it be the other way?
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Albatross
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby Albatross » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:12 am

Mine has the same clicking, but was never taken apart. From the user reports I've read, it seems like a slight flaw, that has been present in lots of newer Manix releases, from the last year or so. I tried putting pressure on the blade and then tightening the body screws, which did help, but didn't fix the issue 100%. It seems to be slowly going away though.

I said this in another thread, but if anything, this should mean the lock has more room to wear in. Maybe it doesn't, but if it does, that would make the issue easier to live with.
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby vivi » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:53 pm

WellI tried taking it apart and turning the cage sothe ball drops out of the bottom. Less lock stick but not gone.

Took the knife apart completely three different times, every time I put it back together the lock feels perfect with one scale / liner installed. Gets sticky as soon as I screw on the second one.

Kind of frustrating getting the scales dyed how I wanted them, the edge dialed in perfect, but having a new problem I can't seem to fix.
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:13 pm

vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:53 pm
WellI tried taking it apart and turning the cage sothe ball drops out of the bottom. Less lock stick but not gone.

Took the knife apart completely three different times, every time I put it back together the lock feels perfect with one scale / liner installed. Gets sticky as soon as I screw on the second one.

Kind of frustrating getting the scales dyed how I wanted them, the edge dialed in perfect, but having a new problem I can't seem to fix.
Did you look into my suggestion? I've swapped 5 different Manix scales, if you didn't mess with the lock/cage then it shouldn't be an issue. Tinker with those screws, doesn't seem like it would cause the issue but it has a few times for me.
20 :spyder:'s in 13 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Benchmade 940 (BHQ Exclusive/M4)
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays

-Rick

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby vivi » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:34 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:13 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:53 pm
WellI tried taking it apart and turning the cage sothe ball drops out of the bottom. Less lock stick but not gone.

Took the knife apart completely three different times, every time I put it back together the lock feels perfect with one scale / liner installed. Gets sticky as soon as I screw on the second one.

Kind of frustrating getting the scales dyed how I wanted them, the edge dialed in perfect, but having a new problem I can't seem to fix.
Did you look into my suggestion? I've swapped 5 different Manix scales, if you didn't mess with the lock/cage then it shouldn't be an issue. Tinker with those screws, doesn't seem like it would cause the issue but it has a few times for me.
My M4 XL has a pivot pin, not a screw.
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:19 pm

Ohhh, my bad Vivi. I didn't realize that.
20 :spyder:'s in 13 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Benchmade 940 (BHQ Exclusive/M4)
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays

-Rick

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:49 pm

vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:34 pm
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:13 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:53 pm
My M4 XL has a pivot pin, not a screw.

Just so I understand: The Manix XL does have screw together construction but NOT a pivot screw so that the pivot is actually NOT adjustable?!

Or did I get this wrong?
Would be quite a negative imho...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Manix 2 Lock Stick

Postby vivi » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:56 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:49 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:34 pm
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:13 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:53 pm
My M4 XL has a pivot pin, not a screw.

Just so I understand: The Manix XL does have screw together construction but NOT a pivot screw so that the pivot is actually NOT adjustable?!

Or did I get this wrong?
Would be quite a negative imho...
I typed that quickly at work didn't realize how off that sounds.

The pivot is screwed, two screws on each side thread into a piece that rests between the blade, like in my Siren breakdown pictures.

Right above the lock release there is not a screw, but a hidden pin that rests between the liners that. This pin helps hold the CBBL metal backing piece in place, along with one screw further back on the handle.

Compare photos of my M4 XL and older Manix 2's and you'll see there is not a screw just above the lock release on my XL but there is on older M2's. No idea how current M2's are built.

This will clear it up:

Image
Image
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