Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

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Wartstein
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Mon May 25, 2020 3:24 am

ladybug93 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:26 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:03 am
ladybug93 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:08 pm
....
But Spydercos SE actually CAN do real "pristine cuts" (or maybe I don´t understand fully what is meant by "pristine" exactly), especially when it comes to slicing paper or cardboard (and that´s what "tabletop reviewers" do all the time, if they show knives in use at all... :rolleyes: )
i know they can, but if you don’t know what you’re doing, or the knife isn’t as sharp as it could be, you get a lot of snagging and that makes it hard to show off how sharp your knife is.
I think you´re touching an important point here:

- Often times the "ignorant" (as David put it) compare DULL SE vs SHARP PE (cause they think SE would be impossible to sharpen)
- If they´d compare really sharp SE vs really sharp PE: SE would be superior in many cases imho (not only due to the serrations, but also due to the normally much more acute angle (chisel grind))
- If they´d compare really dull SE vs really dull PE: SE would win by far, cause it still can "tear apart" stuff when really dull

I think the third point is what many people have in their mind: They see DULL SE that still rips through stuff (where dull PE could not cut at all anymore) and think THAT would be what "SE cutting" generally looks like...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Mon May 25, 2020 5:27 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:00 am

I am really not so sure about the "SE is not for whittling and woodcraft"-thing anymore, in fact I begin to prefer SE (SPYDERCOS SE!) in that type of tasks too...

Where a Spyderedge clearly does better a lot than a plain edge is making feathersticks: This gets mentioned very seldom, but in fact it is amazing how well this works!
Also when whittling wood, like making a pointy stick or a nodge SE works faster and better, as long as you don´t do TOO fine work (like carving a little figurine or something, here PE is better)

That might all be partly due to the chisel grind though and not necessarely only the serrartions themselves

I'll definitely agree that SE can be used to shave wood and make feather sticks, but if you need to make smooth cuts, the teeth and scallops of SE can easily dig in and make the cut jagged.

This is more of an issue when doing carpentry and precision work. I will add, when cutting lumber I have used SE to "de-burr" the cut edges with success. PE would be better in that situation, but SE does the job just fine.

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Evil D
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Mon May 25, 2020 9:59 am

Here's something I'll admit about myself when I was strongly against serrations....I looked for every excuse and argument I could make against them, even when those uses were never part of my day to day needs. An example is the bushcraft argument, if you're not out in the woods building a shelter in your day to day knife use world, what point does that argument have? Is it a realistic need that you actually have or are you just playing devil's advocate? Do you have a need to carve things on a daily basis or are you looking for knife uses that support your side of an argument that really has no winning or losing side?

I used to make all those arguments, but I found that for me they were little more than argument leverage that I was grasping for to support my predetermined disposition of something I really didn't know enough about to have an opinion. Again that's just ME and how it was for ME but I can't help but suspect others are doing the same. Whether we like it or not nobody really likes change, nobody likes it when the established norm is challenged. People are resistant to change even when it could be a good change. I would suggest that anyone who's interested in this just be honest about their real world uses and don't be so certain about anything until you've given it a fair chance. Again....why would I bother?

As far as jagged cuts go, maybe refer to these posts..
viewtopic.php?p=1381447#p1381447
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby zuludelta » Mon May 25, 2020 2:07 pm

I've been an avid and regular knife user since I was a child (Boy Scout, helped out in the kitchen as a kid, etc.) but I only started paying attention to the online knife community relatively recently (like maybe in the last 5 years or so), so I was very, very surprised to see so many people seemingly opposed to the idea of serrated edges on knives when I finally started reading knife-related forums and watching knife videos on YouTube.

In my little knife-using bubble, where I'd used knives almost everyday for nearly three decades, I've found serrations (in both full-length serrated and combo edge blades) to be eminently useful and practical for various outdoor, kitchen, and especially work-related tasks. Reading and watching so many people decry serrated blades, I felt like I was in some sort of bizarro world.

My "knife journey" (if I might be so pretentious to call it that) of the past few years can actually be described as almost going in the direction opposite of Evil D's: It's only been relatively recently that I've started regularly carrying plain edge knives for work (mostly Wharncliffe blades, although I carry the occasional plain edge leaf-blade), when previously I only carried serrated or combo edge designs as my work knife.

Do I think serrated edge blades are "better" than plain edge blades? I think they are in at least one category, and that is in the repeated cutting of braided rope and cordage. But I think in other areas and contexts, a lot of the potential performance differences between the two edge types can be rendered irrelevant (for better AND for worse) by ergonomics and user biomechanics and technique. Edge type is important, no doubt, but so many other factors can influence how well a knife will perform in a given task for a particular user.
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PeaceInOurTime
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Mon May 25, 2020 2:09 pm

David, that's been my experience as well. SE can cut cleanly as shown in that thread and my several videos. The jagged cuts I was referring to occur when cutting solid, dense media like wood. It can show the wavy pattern of the serrations after cutting with the grain. I believe I showed in one of my videos a SE hawkbill whittling a point on a stick without issue, but it can still show the SE pattern in the wood.

Again, this certainly is a non issue for my day to day use and only becomes a problem when you absolutely need that flat, smooth cut in dense media. I can't think of a time when I needed that from my pocket knives and the performance of the SE out weighs that inconvenience ♾:1.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Mon May 25, 2020 3:06 pm

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:09 pm
David, that's been my experience as well. SE can cut cleanly as shown in that thread and my several videos. The jagged cuts I was referring to occur when cutting solid, dense media like wood. It can show the wavy pattern of the serrations after cutting with the grain. I believe I showed in one of my videos a SE hawkbill whittling a point on a stick without issue, but it can still show the SE pattern in the wood.

Again, this certainly is a non issue for my day to day use and only becomes a problem when you absolutely need that flat, smooth cut in dense media. I can't think of a time when I needed that from my pocket knives and the performance of the SE out weighs that inconvenience ♾:1.
Exactly!

Woodwork is to be done better with PE when it comes to very detailled/precision work, no doubt.

But when the goal is just a roughly pointed stick with some notches for being used as let's say a tent stake: SE works perfectly well, in fact bites deeper into wood than PE. Sure, the cutouts in the wood will not look as clean and smooth as they would when done with PE, but in many "bushcraft" tasks that does not really matter...

That being said: When I was specifically planning on doing mainly "bushcraft" tasks, I´d bring a PE (fixed) blade. Though for making feathersticks I´d love to have spyderedge still. I´d really encourage everyone who has at least one PE and one SE (or CE) Spyderco to compare them in making feathersticks / shavings. For me it is like Spydercos SE was made for this task, produces very fine and easy to ignite shavings with ease.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Mon May 25, 2020 4:38 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:06 pm

I think we're on the same page :)

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Mon May 25, 2020 8:07 pm

What David just said is very interesting. Because it was basically by accident that I discovered how great Serrated/Spyderedged blades are for certain jobs. Going back to the old cliché "Necessity is the Mother of Invention".

And giving serrations a fair trial and finding more uses for them swung me over. And that was about 2002 when I kind of seen the light so to speak.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Cambertree » Mon May 25, 2020 8:50 pm

I had no interest whatsoever in SE - my first 30 or so Spydies were all PE in fact.

This forum and the thoughtful posts by the SE afi’s here made me a convert, and now I appreciate and use SE blades a lot.

I think I still prefer PE for general use, but I often pair a SE blade with a PE, and of course there are certain jobs where I reach straight for a serrated blade.

I don’t know if I could exclusively use a SE blade, but I’ve been considering dipping my toe in the water by trying out a longer combo edge blade like the PM2.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue May 26, 2020 5:39 am

I love them both. I think SE shines brightest, on smaller models. Specifically, the Jester and other micro knives.

The increased cutting performance that SE adds to those types of designs is immeasurably helpful. I would choose SE over PE on any of the JLM knives.

As for on larger knives, the extra performance isn't AS big of a issue. In that case I would generally choose PE, unless I knew I was going to be cutting a lot of rope, twine or other fibrous material. Although, the Ulize would probably perform quite well in that area, thanks to it's funky(awesome) recurve.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am

I like carrying both. I still need to try out some FFG spyderedge...
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Tue May 26, 2020 11:40 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am
I like carrying both. I still need to try out some FFG spyderedge...

If you're used to and/or appreciate sliciness, you'll like SE in FFG. It's just that much better.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby TkoK83Spy » Tue May 26, 2020 2:11 pm

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:40 am
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am
I like carrying both. I still need to try out some FFG spyderedge...

If you're used to and/or appreciate sliciness, you'll like SE in FFG. It's just that much better.
Just got my Delica Wharnie SE. Can't wait to start using it at work next week. The handful of you guys that swear by SE persuaded me to give it a try, besides the amazing deal Schuyler Arms had on it. I like the Matriarch a lot, but this is a bit more practical.
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Tue May 26, 2020 2:18 pm

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:40 am
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am
I like carrying both. I still need to try out some FFG spyderedge...

If you're used to and/or appreciate sliciness, you'll like SE in FFG. It's just that much better.

+1

Endela, Delica wharnie or Endura wharnie would be good suggestions I guess.
And again: Even if one does not come to actually prefer ffg SE, it will always make for a great utility knife for any kind of toolbox...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby ladybug93 » Tue May 26, 2020 2:50 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:18 pm
PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:40 am
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am
I like carrying both. I still need to try out some FFG spyderedge...

If you're used to and/or appreciate sliciness, you'll like SE in FFG. It's just that much better.

+1

Endela, Delica wharnie or Endura wharnie would be good suggestions I guess.
And again: Even if one does not come to actually prefer ffg SE, it will always make for a great utility knife for any kind of toolbox...
i've never really thought about it before, but how is se in wharncliffe as opposed to on a blade with some belly? in my mind, it would take away the disadvantages of a straight blade being less slicey by adding a bunch of curves, while also maintaining the benefits of a straight blade, such as full cutting energy transferring all the way to the tip throughout the cut. seems like it makes sense. i've just never considered it before.

my first ffg se will probably be the caribbean whenever it's done with cqi. i plan on getting the sheepsfoot, which isn't a wharncliffe, but is fairly close. just waiting for it to be back in stock with whatever cqi spyderco deems necessary.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Tue May 26, 2020 2:55 pm

ladybug93 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:50 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:18 pm
PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:40 am
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:40 am
i've never really thought about it before, but how is se in wharncliffe as opposed to on a blade with some belly? in my mind, it would take away the disadvantages of a straight blade being less slicey by adding a bunch of curves, while also maintaining the benefits of a straight blade, such as full cutting energy transferring all the way to the tip throughout the cut. seems like it makes sense. i've just never considered it before.

my first ffg se will probably be the caribbean whenever it's done with cqi. i plan on getting the sheepsfoot, which isn't a wharncliffe, but is fairly close. just waiting for it to be back in stock with whatever cqi spyderco deems necessary.
Interesting thought! But I can´t help, never had an se wharncliffe...

/ From what I read especially in Davids posts, the caribbean must be a perfect choice for trying SE in ffg! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Tue May 26, 2020 4:13 pm

Wartstein wrote: Endela, Delica wharnie or Endura wharnie would be good suggestions I guess.
And again: Even if one does not come to actually prefer ffg SE, it will always make for a great utility knife for any kind of toolbox...
+1

I'll add the SE Tenacious as an inexpensive way to try out FFG SE.


TkoK83Spy wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:11 pm

Just got my Delica Wharnie SE. Can't wait to start using it at work next week. The handful of you guys that swear by SE persuaded me to give it a try, besides the amazing deal Schuyler Arms had on it. I like the Matriarch a lot, but this is a bit more practical.
Nice! Looking forward to your thoughts when you get to use it!


ladybug93 wrote:
i've never really thought about it before, but how is se in wharncliffe as opposed to on a blade with some belly? in my mind, it would take away the disadvantages of a straight blade being less slicey by adding a bunch of curves, while also maintaining the benefits of a straight blade, such as full cutting energy transferring all the way to the tip throughout the cut. seems like it makes sense. i've just never considered it before.

my first ffg se will probably be the caribbean whenever it's done with cqi. i plan on getting the sheepsfoot, which isn't a wharncliffe, but is fairly close. just waiting for it to be back in stock with whatever cqi spyderco deems necessary.
I've found that unless I'm cutting on a surface (i.e. cutting boards), I really have no use for "positively" curved and/or angled blades on my pocket knives. Wharncliffes and hawkbills work better in my day to day cutting tasks. Make it SE and it's even better :)

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 pm

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:13 pm

I've found that unless I'm cutting on a surface (i.e. cutting boards), I really have no use for "positively" curved and/or angled blades on my pocket knives. Wharncliffes and hawkbills work better in my day to day cutting tasks. Make it SE and it's even better :)


Negative blade angles or at the very least a neutral angle is where it's at. As you mentioned, unless the knife is something I really plan to use in cutting board type situations I have no use for upswept blades/bellies/angles. The vast majority of stuff I cut I'm holding in my off hand.

That said, a sheepsfoot CAN do food prep if you just keep your fingers out of the way. It isn't ideal, but then no folder is ideal for food prep IMO. This is another one of those "grasping at straws" arguments that I used to make against serrations (food prep I mean).
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Wed May 27, 2020 2:31 am

Thanks for the suggestion on the SE tenacious!
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Wartstein
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Wed May 27, 2020 3:08 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:31 am
Thanks for the suggestion on the SE tenacious!

If you get a Tenacious SE: Hope you'll report back how you like it!
I never had one myself, but always somewhat hesitate to recommend it to people who come from PE, since just on depictions the Tenacious serrations look deeper and more aggressive than the ones on Endela/Wharnie Delica... and more aggressive is NOT a good thing in SE imho when it comes to normal cutting tasks. Shallow, "mild", more rounded serrations work better there for me.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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