Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:12 am

So I've had just one day with the FFG SE tenacious, and I'm blown away. It's night and day compared to a traditional Saber ground SE.

Looks like one of my next set of Caribbeans is gonna have to be SE for sure!
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Wartstein
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:05 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:12 am
So I've had just one day with the FFG SE tenacious, and I'm blown away. It's night and day compared to a traditional Saber ground SE.

Looks like one of my next set of Caribbeans is gonna have to be SE for sure!

Thanks for reporting bacl and glad you like it! :)
You sound a lot like me when I got my Endela SE... ;)

So the Tenacious SE seems to be performing much like the Endela SE, and so should be another (and even cheaper then the Endela) great option for anyone who wants to see what the spyderedge in ffg is all about, but not spend too much money.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Jazz
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Jazz » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:31 am

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:32 pm
And someday I'll get around to making a cutting video of my wharncliffe Endura (for whoever enjoys my poorly made videos). :)

................ :rolleyes: :p
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby TkoK83Spy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:37 am

Count me in as being a fan of the ffg SE. This wharnie Delica SE has been a game changer the past week. I used to have the Salt 2, which I liked for a while. Something about it made an easy sell though after a while (color, thickness/grind?)

Blew away my coworker yesterday as to how sharp serrations can actually be. He really thought they were more for looks or the cool factor haha. Maybe from gas station knives, but certainly not Spyderco SE's! This is definitely best bang for my buck knife I've had in quite some time ($52)
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:44 am

Jazz wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:31 am
PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:32 pm
And someday I'll get around to making a cutting video of my wharncliffe Endura (for whoever enjoys my poorly made videos). :)

................ :rolleyes: :p

:D someday ;) hopefully soon

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:37 am

Just sawed through a beverage can with the tenacious. No edge damage.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

JD Spydo
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:21 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 7:18 am
I'd buy a SE Ulize in 8CR if that's what it takes to get one into production. I'm in for literally any steel Spyderco has ever used, doesn't matter.
Maybe your approach might be better. Maybe if we could get Spyderco to make at least one "recurve" model (preferably the ULIZE) in just any bar stock they might have laying around at the GOLDEN factory then it might be more economically feasible for them. And it might just entice them to give it a try.

Because something just doesn't make any sense here at all. Here you have Spyderco which is arguably THEE Company for premium serrated edged cutlery. But yet they still have a few types of blades that they haven't yet offered in SE. WHY??? Why is that :confused: ??? Yeah sure the sales charts play a role in it for sure. But as good as Hawkbills are in SE you just know that "recurves" would be awesome as well.

A squeaky wheel will eventually get oiled at some point. And I'm not going to shut up till it happens :D

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:14 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:21 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 7:18 am
I'd buy a SE Ulize in 8CR if that's what it takes to get one into production. I'm in for literally any steel Spyderco has ever used, doesn't matter.
Maybe your approach might be better. Maybe if we could get Spyderco to make at least one "recurve" model (preferably the ULIZE) in just any bar stock they might have laying around at the GOLDEN factory then it might be more economically feasible for them. And it might just entice them to give it a try.

Because something just doesn't make any sense here at all. Here you have Spyderco which is arguably THEE Company for premium serrated edged cutlery. But yet they still have a few types of blades that they haven't yet offered in SE. WHY??? Why is that :confused: ??? Yeah sure the sales charts play a role in it for sure. But as good as Hawkbills are in SE you just know that "recurves" would be awesome as well.

A squeaky wheel will eventually get oiled at some point. And I'm not going to shut up till it happens :D



I think all too often most requests are so specific and unrealistic that they get overlooked. It has to be financially feasible and something that will appeal to enough people to sell, or on other words it needs to be a safe business decision. Asking for a sprint run of a less than super popular model in SE is already asking for a lot so like you said whatever is the easiest and cheapest for them to do is probably for the best. Then if it sells well enough maybe we can hope for something more.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby NWPilgrim » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm

Count me in the SE convert crowd. I think it was Evil D that convinced me by his postings to try the Endura Wharncliffe SE. Very powerful cutter yet handles slicing tomatoes and cheese just fine. The Wharncliffe blade shape seems to help me dig into the rope or material rather than slipping off it. That leverage combined with the SE means serious slicing power. I have carried this most days for about a year now and live this knife.

The only thing is, I just love my PM2 PE, too. Perfect handle shape and balance and a really nice blade shape. So I carry the PM2 about a third of the time just for the ergonomics. But for pure cutting and slicing I have to give it up for the Wharncliffe SE, except for plastic. The SE just does not glide through thin or thick plastic very well. But for food prep, bread, rope, leather/fabric, seat belt and cardboard the Endura is fantastic. The Wharncliffe shape is a major contributor to the SE effectiveness.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 am

This might be the best place to float this suggestion - I know a custom shop at the SFO isn't the most feasible idea right now, but what do you guys think of a "Serration Service"? Send in your favorite plain edge model and they'll make it serrated on demand?
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:17 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 am
This might be the best place to float this suggestion - I know a custom shop at the SFO isn't the most feasible idea right now, but what do you guys think of a "Serration Service"? Send in your favorite plain edge model and they'll make it serrated on demand?

This would be great! Though they'd probably have to exclude some harder and/or more brittle steels... not only cause they might not work well in SE, but also to avoid excessive wear on their grinding wheels..
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:34 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 am
This might be the best place to float this suggestion - I know a custom shop at the SFO isn't the most feasible idea right now, but what do you guys think of a "Serration Service"? Send in your favorite plain edge model and they'll make it serrated on demand?


I would be 100% for that. My experience with outside serration services has been less than stellar, I'd much rather have the factory do it.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby curlyhairedboy » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:51 am

I was just thinking how nice it would be to potentially have a full SE CruCarta Shaman...
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:55 am

NWPilgrim wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm
Count me in the SE convert crowd. I think it was Evil D that convinced me by his postings to try the Endura Wharncliffe SE. Very powerful cutter yet handles slicing tomatoes and cheese just fine. The Wharncliffe blade shape seems to help me dig into the rope or material rather than slipping off it. That leverage combined with the SE means serious slicing power. I have carried this most days for about a year now and live this knife.

The only thing is, I just love my PM2 PE, too. Perfect handle shape and balance and a really nice blade shape. So I carry the PM2 about a third of the time just for the ergonomics. But for pure cutting and slicing I have to give it up for the Wharncliffe SE, except for plastic. The SE just does not glide through thin or thick plastic very well. But for food prep, bread, rope, leather/fabric, seat belt and cardboard the Endura is fantastic. The Wharncliffe shape is a major contributor to the SE effectiveness.
I like the way you pointed all of that out "Pilgrim". Because each edge type has it's advantages and disadvantages. When it comes to blade geometry I've found that the Sheepsfoot blades and full flat grind blades both make excellent blades for Spyderedged units.

The Para2 and C-36 Military both in full flat grind PE are awesome EDC knives. This is one reason I've wondered why the C-44 Dyad model never got anymore fanfare than it did. Because to me that model was truly the best of both cutlery worlds.

But so many people over the years had already decided that serrated blades are no good. However I doubt if anyone gave a serrated Spyder a fair chance that they would not like them.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:58 am

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:17 am
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:03 am
This might be the best place to float this suggestion - I know a custom shop at the SFO isn't the most feasible idea right now, but what do you guys think of a "Serration Service"? Send in your favorite plain edge model and they'll make it serrated on demand?

This would be great! Though they'd probably have to exclude some harder and/or more brittle steels... not only cause they might not work well in SE, but also to avoid excessive wear on their grinding wheels..
There is most definitely a group of steels that perform better in SE than they do in PE. And I've found that very few steels I've encountered did well with both edge types. VG-10 and ATS-55 are 2 exceptions that come to mind.

It's been proven that super hard alloy blade steels like ZDP-189 make a terrible serrated edge. Properties of toughness and impact resistance are two that make for a great serrated edge.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:51 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:51 am
I was just thinking how nice it would be to potentially have a full SE CruCarta Shaman...

There are quite a few non stainless steels I'd like to try with serrations, with first on my list probably being 52100.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am

NWPilgrim wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm
The SE just does not glide through thin or thick plastic very well.


What type of plastic?


Plastic is funny stuff. I worked about a year in an extrusion factory making various poly films. Some of that stuff is surprisingly hard on edges, we would have to rotate slitter blades a lot for certain films. Some plastics that seem pretty basic are way more high tech than you'd expect, food packaging for example is multi layer and has some really interesting abilities like letting gasses out but not in.

If you're cutting thick plastics that's where you may run into some chisel grind walk. I find myself cutting car bumpers quite a bit, and thick urethane will definitely fight you if you're not ready for the cut. Besides the occasional walking issue I've had no problem actually getting the cuts done, best thing to do is not over think it and go for it. SE works best when pushed hard.

I'm gonna see about getting a bumper from a junkyard for some cut tests. I'm really looking for every opportunity to test cut any materials that people have had issues with cutting clean, not so much to prove them wrong but yo test out the rounded/reprofiled edge that I use on my knives.
Last edited by Evil D on Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:10 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am
NWPilgrim wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm
The SE just does not glide through thin or thick plastic very well.


What type of plastic?


Plastic is funny stuff. I worked about a year in an extension factory making various poly films. Some of that stuff is surprisingly hard on edges, we would have to rotate slitter blades a lot for certain films. Some plastics that seem pretty basic are way more high tech than you'd expect, food packaging for example is multi layer and has some really interesting abilities like letting gasses out but not in.

If you're cutting thick plastics that's where you may run into some chisel grind walk. I find myself cutting car bumpers quite a bit, and thick urethane will definitely fight you if you're not ready for the cut. Besides the occasional walking issue I've had no problem actually getting the cuts done, best thing to do is not over think it and go for it. SE works best when pushed hard.

I'm gonna see about getting a bumper from a junkyard for some cut tests. I'm really looking for every opportunity to test cut any materials that people have had issues with cutting clean, not so much to prove them wrong but yo test out the rounded/reprofiled edge that I use on my knives.
Not only plastic David but I've found cardboard to be really rough even on the best of blades after a few uses. It's also unbelievable how good that putting jeweler's rouge on cardboard and skewing your blade over it really tunes an edge up really good too. My point being that it is baffling how seemingly "softer" materials can be brutal even on the best blade steels >> or how some softer materials can enhance a blade's edge in some cases. And those materials can really dull a blade a lot worse than one might think in some applications.

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:05 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:10 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:57 am
NWPilgrim wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm
The SE just does not glide through thin or thick plastic very well.


What type of plastic?


Plastic is funny stuff. I worked about a year in an extension factory making various poly films. Some of that stuff is surprisingly hard on edges, we would have to rotate slitter blades a lot for certain films. Some plastics that seem pretty basic are way more high tech than you'd expect, food packaging for example is multi layer and has some really interesting abilities like letting gasses out but not in.

If you're cutting thick plastics that's where you may run into some chisel grind walk. I find myself cutting car bumpers quite a bit, and thick urethane will definitely fight you if you're not ready for the cut. Besides the occasional walking issue I've had no problem actually getting the cuts done, best thing to do is not over think it and go for it. SE works best when pushed hard.

I'm gonna see about getting a bumper from a junkyard for some cut tests. I'm really looking for every opportunity to test cut any materials that people have had issues with cutting clean, not so much to prove them wrong but yo test out the rounded/reprofiled edge that I use on my knives.
Not only plastic David but I've found cardboard to be really rough even on the best of blades after a few uses. It's also unbelievable how good that putting jeweler's rouge on cardboard and skewing your blade over it really tunes an edge up really good too. My point being that it is baffling how seemingly "softer" materials can be brutal even on the best blade steels >> or how some softer materials can enhance a blade's edge in some cases. And those materials can really dull a blade a lot worse than one might think in some applications.


That should have said "extrusion factory" not extension.

Cardboard (or fiber corrugated particle board) is nasty stuff for a couple reasons (I also did about 3 years making that stuff). For starters the paper itself is recycled and usually has all sorts of impurities in it like clay. The worst part is the glue that holds the 3 sheets together, it's a starch glue and dries to be rock hard, so especially when you're cutting across the flutes (the little tubes) you're also cutting through that hard plastic-like glue and that's a big reason it wrecks edges. Different grades of corrugated are worse than others...the box that a Big Mac comes in is actually corrugated too but the flutes are so tiny and use so little glue that it's way easier on your edge than a double wall C flute shipping box. We used to make these boxes for a company that made electric motors and those boxes were double-double wall and so rigid you could fold one up and a grown man could stand on top of them with nothing inside. There comes a point where even a cardboard box gets so thick and rigid it's practically a plywood and hard as heck to cut with a pocket knife.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Most Ideal PE Or Spyderedge

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:37 pm

When you mention "glue" and other adhesives and/or sealants it does give us a whole new set of materials that are rough on blades. Especially some of the bullet proof epoxies we used on my last job. But I guess that's the tradeoff you get with the progress that we make.

I've seen 2 part and 3 part epoxies so hard I can't even hardly dent or scratch them with a claw hammer. Even paint and coatings have progressed in a huge way in the past 20 especially.

Yeah I think some of those plastics. glues and new polymers dull your knife worse than metal bands on pallets do most of the time. Which makes the case for trying more serration patterns for a wide range of cutting jobs.


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