pain to sharpen SE blades?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Edward_Scissorhands
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:14 pm

pain to sharpen SE blades?

#1

Post by Edward_Scissorhands »

All I have is the Sharpmaker. Are SE blades a real pain to sharpen? Also, do you sharpen both sides. I've seen the Atlantic Salt, and it appears the edge only sharp on the side with the serrations? Maybe it just looks that way. Finally, are SE hawkbills (or hawkbills in general) hard to sharpen?
User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 8561
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: DFW, TX (orig. from N. IL)

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#2

Post by Sharp Guy »

I only have 3 SE pocket knives and I've only sharpened two on the Sharpmaker. Seemed really easy to me. The instructional video is available on YouTube if you don't have the DVD. I think I used three strokes on the business side and 1 stroke on the back then repeat until you have the desired sharpness.

I haven't really used the hawkbill I have and definitely haven't sharpened it. So can't help you there
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
Mattysc42
Member
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#3

Post by Mattysc42 »

Shaprening SE is easy with a bit of practice. Sometimes even moreso than PE. Repairing major damage to SE is exponentially more time consuming than PE, though. Much smaller abrasive surface area to work with.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
Top 5 steels I’ve owned: LC200N, K390, CPM S90V, M390, CPM REX45.
Top 3 steels I want more of: M390 class, A11 class (including K390), CPM REX45.
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15042
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#4

Post by Wartstein »

Edward_Scissorhands wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:13 pm
All I have is the Sharpmaker. Are SE blades a real pain to sharpen? .....
All you NEED is the sharpmaker ;), probably the best device for sharpening SE!
And no, not a pain at all, but actually easier and faster to sharpen than PE imho

Didn´t you watch the instructional dvd that comes with the sharpmaker? Sal explains there perfectly how to sharpen SE.
Should you not have the dvd, here is the vid on youtube, SE sharpening starting at 19:20 (but I´d strongly recommend watching the hole film) https://youtu.be/5LBDnJv5B58&t=2033s

And here is a great thread about sharpening SE, the very first post there tells you about everything you need to know already
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544
The vid linked in that post (sharpmaker starting at 1:30) also shows how easy it is to sharpen SE hawkbills (starting at 2:35)
https://youtu.be/Ptmx1iJELhU
Last edited by Wartstein on Wed May 20, 2020 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15042
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#5

Post by Wartstein »

Added to my post above and addressing your question on "only sharpen on one side":

You´ll see in Sals and Vivis vid that there are a bit differing approaches:

Spydercos SE knives come from the factory ground only on one side (to something between 15 to 20 degrees,inclusive, not "per side")

You can basically keep it that way, grind only the "presentation side" and just remove the burr on the other side with one very shallow stroke after doing 2 to 6 passes on the side you actually grind (so for just burr removing you lay the blade almost flat against the stone, creating almost no sharpening angle). That´s the way Vivi shows in his vid, and I have good results and experiences with it on my VG10 and H1 SE blades. Could be that on more brittle steels the very acute angle this method creates (or maintains) is TOO steep, don´t know.

What Sal shows in the instructional dvd: You grind both sides in a angle (15 or 20 degrees), either by doing alternating strokes in a 1:1 ratio (very robust, but less "sharp" edge) or by using some other ratio from presentation side to back side (3:1 or 6:1 or whatever)
This will create a more acute edge, but still not as acute as Vivis method.

And let me say once more, just to encourage people who might think sharpening SE (or sharpening on the sharpmaker generally) is hard or complicated: I am really NOT good at sharpening, but the sharpmaker makes it easy for me and I have no problems to keep both SE and PE blades more than sharp enough for my needs (SE even a bit easier).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 27147
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#6

Post by Evil D »

They sharpen the same as any other knife on the Sharpmaker with the exception of going a bit slower and doing a stroke ratio that favors the serration side, something like 3:1 or so is fine. Just hold the blade at 90 and take your time. Make sure the rods are hitting the edge, some knives will hit at 30 and some are ground steeper and need to be sharpened on 40. I've started reprofiling all mine to 30 which can take some time but it shouldn't be necessary with a new knife right out of the box.

As far as hawkbills go, the tip is more challenging to sharpen than anything. You don't need to rotate the blade or anything like that, look at the direction that the serrations are cut in and try to hold the blade so that the angle of the serrations are straight up and down. I would say a hawkbill is more challenging but not difficult if you have the Sharpmaker basics down. I find wharnies/sheepsfoot to be easiest to sharpen.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
User avatar
araneae
Member
Posts: 5490
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: A lil more south of the Erie shore, Ohio

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#7

Post by araneae »

You have the right tool, just get some practice and you'll be fine. And watch the video...
Last edited by araneae on Thu May 21, 2020 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Last in: N5 Magnacut
The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal
User avatar
PeaceInOurTime
Member
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:37 am

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#8

Post by PeaceInOurTime »

^^^^^ Lots of great advice has already been posted above ^^^^^

Free-hand sharpening is also quick and easy for serrations:

https://youtu.be/ey0z0fvi5U8
prndltech
Member
Posts: 3128
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: 512

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#9

Post by prndltech »

As others have said... takes a lil practice but it’s quite easy, and you already have the best tool for the job IMO.
- Shannon

MNOSD 0006
User avatar
willc
Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:47 pm
Location: Phila PA

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#10

Post by willc »

When you get to finishing your SE blade be mindful of pressure.
You want to use just the weight of the knife, very light pressure.

Another thing is frequently clean the rods.
They cut much better when clean.

Like anything the more you practice it the better you will become.
Find some old steak knives and see if you can get them to shave arm hair.
User avatar
Surfingringo
Member
Posts: 5818
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm
Location: Costa Rica

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#11

Post by Surfingringo »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:24 pm
Added to my post above and addressing your question on "only sharpen on one side":

You´ll see in Sals and Vivis vid that there are a bit differing approaches:

Spydercos SE knives come from the factory ground only on one side (to something between 15 to 20 degrees,inclusive, not "per side")

You can basically keep it that way, grind only the "presentation side" and just remove the burr on the other side with one very shallow stroke after doing 2 to 6 passes on the side you actually grind (so for just burr removing you lay the blade almost flat against the stone, creating almost no sharpening angle). That´s the way Vivi shows in his vid, and I have good results and experiences with it on my VG10 and H1 SE blades. Could be that on more brittle steels the very acute angle this method creates (or maintains) is TOO steep, don´t know.

What Sal shows in the instructional dvd: You grind both sides in a angle (15 or 20 degrees), either by doing alternating strokes in a 1:1 ratio (very robust, but less "sharp" edge) or by using some other ratio from presentation side to back side (3:1 or 6:1 or whatever)
This will create a more acute edge, but still not as acute as Vivis method.


And let me say once more, just to encourage people who might think sharpening SE (or sharpening on the sharpmaker generally) is hard or complicated: I am really NOT good at sharpening, but the sharpmaker makes it easy for me and I have no problems to keep both SE and PE blades more than sharp enough for my needs (SE even a bit easier).
I sharpen my SE knives the same way that Vivi does. Multiple strokes on the presentation side then I one or two passes on the back side holding the knife nearly flat to the stone. I believe that Sal has even changed his technique since that video was made. I read one of his posts just this month where he said that he does the same that Vivi and I describe, holding the knife nearly flat when removing the burr on the non presentation side.

Edit: It’s also possible that Sal hasn’t changed anything and just made the video that way to demonstrate the simplest and most straightforward method amongst many options. I don’t know, I just know that I recently saw him confirm that when he’s sharpening his own SE knives he flattens the blade to the stone when removing the burr. :)
User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 27147
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#12

Post by Evil D »

I experimented with laying the back side of the blade flat on the stone to get the back side of the edge as low of an angle as I could. As far as sharpening goes it works quite well with FFG blades but you can probably guess over time the blade gets pretty ugly looking. The back of my Stretch is like this and since it already is I still sharpen it this way.

From what I've seen with reprofiling serrations with diamond/CBN rods, I'm not really concerned with losing the definition of the serrations on the grind side, but I am concerned about creating an established bevel on the back side which will make the width of the bevel on the front side start to shrink, and over time that may become a problem. Because of that I also only ever use the ultra fine rods on the back of side, this way I know for sure I'm removing as little metal from back there as possible. I do have a couple knives I've used more course rods on that side to try to bring the angle back down but for touch ups I always use the UF.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 14754
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#13

Post by Doc Dan »

Yes, do it as Vivi does. It really takes all of the hassle out of sharpening serrated blades. I used to hate doing it, but Vivi taught me how to do it and it was so easy.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#14

Post by James Y »

I’ve always used about a 6-to-1 ratio of strokes in favor of the presentation side, and going almost flat on the other side to remove the burr. I also use a light touch. It’s actually quite easy with the Sharpmaker.

Jim
User avatar
bbturbodad
Member
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:18 am

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#15

Post by bbturbodad »

Evil D wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:25 am
From what I've seen with reprofiling serrations with diamond/CBN rods, I'm not really concerned with losing the definition of the serrations on the grind side, but I am concerned about creating an established bevel on the back side which will make the width of the bevel on the front side start to shrink, and over time that may become a problem. Because of that I also only ever use the ultra fine rods on the back of side, this way I know for sure I'm removing as little metal from back there as possible. I do have a couple knives I've used more course rods on that side to try to bring the angle back down but for touch ups I always use the UF.
I do it similarly. I never use diamond/CBN on the back side and just use a fine rod (or sometimes medium) to flip the burr back to the serrated side and then to finally knock it off at the end of the sharpening.

If the burr is stubborn I pull it through a piece of balsa wood then hit it lightly with the fine to make sure it's crisp.
-Turbo
User avatar
bbturbodad
Member
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:18 am

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#16

Post by bbturbodad »

Oops Double Post
-Turbo
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: pain to sharpen SE blades?

#17

Post by JD Spydo »

I still like to use my sets of Spyderco 701 Profile stones. But I'm using the 204 Sharpmaker more lately. I've also gotten more of the DMT conical tapered diamond rods to help with really dinged up serrated blades and it has helped a lot.

I can't stress enough for people who are just starting out with their Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker to watch the video that comes with it at least 2 to 3 times before trying to use it for the first time.

There are also some helpful videos out there on the internet as well.
Post Reply