Suggestion for changing Spyderco budget knife steel 8Cr13Mov

[npad69]

How about chinese D2? Been seeing it used on a lot of budget-friendly chinese made knives lately

[Lucabrasi]

Don’t have any testing data beyond what others have posted referencing youtubers. But, in my experience 14c28n is easier to sharpen, gets sharper, and stays sharper than 8cr. By a big margin. I’ll concede I’ve never had Spydercos 8cr, but to me the steels are in a different category. I prefer 14c28n to vg10. Similar edge holding but much better sharpening characteristics.

[Ez556]

I would personally pay 70-80 for a Resilience in D2, what a beast that would be.

D2 is another steel I see a lot of domestic Chinese companies using, so it’s gotta be pretty prolific and easy to get there. I’m extremely happy with the D2 in my Steel Will Modus.

Giving heat treating secrets away to a Chinese company seems to be self-defeating in the long run.

I guess I don't really understand the point of your comment. What is being "given away"? There are already knife makers and knife brands in china making knives to a high level of quality with properly treated high end steels. There is testing and data to support this. Do you think they need to have secret information given to them to accomplish this?

From all I read and have seen with my own knives, Spyderco heat treatment is very good, better than most peer companies (domestic & overseas), so make of that what you will.

I still don't see the point. So, Spyderco should not have their knife makers in China using optimal heat treatment? (I guess that assumes that they can't properly do it on their own?) Why would Spyderco not want the best processing regardless of where the knife is made?

It’s common knowledge that designs, processes and intellectual properties are regularly stolen by Chinese companies, and there’s really no repercussion. This is yet another reason I think it’s best to keep Chinese steel in the Chinese knives. It’s one thing for a heat treating process for a domestic steel to get out. It’s their own steel and as others have already pointed out there is already very good heat treatments coming from Chinese companies, it wouldn’t be a huge deal. It’s another thing for the heat treatment process developed by Spyderco for a high end American or other imported steel to get stolen and exploited by a Chinese company.

[sal]

Hi Karl_H,

Welcome to our forum.

Hey Aaron,

We used the Sandvik steel in the Grasshopper because we didn't want to use the 3Cr that the maker wanted to use. We felt that the Sandvik option would perform better than 3Cr.

Frankly, I've not much luck in dealing with Sandvik. Many times discussions at shows led to their going to send samples, which I never received.

sal

[ladybug93]

i've turned my nose up at 8cr13mov in the past because of other makers producing junky budget knives with it. i decided to try the resilience anyway and i will say spyderco handles 8cr13mov better than others i've tried. the tenacious gets great reviews for a reason. no need to change it. although, i do like d2 in some of my budget knives as well, so i would likely enjoy a d2 line of spydercos.

[TomAiello]

i've turned my nose up at 8cr13mov in the past because of other makers producing junky budget knives with it. i decided to try the resilience anyway and i will say spyderco handles 8cr13mov better than others i've tried.

This has also been my experience. Spyderco's 8cr seems to perform much better for me than the others I've tried. Kershaw's 8cr in particular seems to run really soft and go dull very quickly--it almost behaves like plain edge H-1 in terms of sharpening and edge stability for me. Sharpens quickly, goes dull if you look at it wrong, never chips but often rolls. On the other hand, Kershaw's 14c has been very good for me. I realize the metallurgy and formal tests don't support it, but for me (informally, from use) it's in a class with BD-1n, which is really saying something. I suspect it may have to do with the platform (Kershaw Leek) than the steel, but regardless, Kershaw seems to have a good handle on how to use 14c28n. If we were talking about upgrading from Kershaw's 8cr to Kershaw's 14c, that would be a major improvement. But Spyderco's 8cr has been far better than Kershaw's for me, so I'm not sure how much cost increase would be justified--maybe $10-$15 on a Tenacious?

[TomAiello]

Is there an American equivalent to 14c28n? Or at that point is it better to just go all the way up to BD1n?

[araneae]

double tap

[araneae]

I would personally pay 70-80 for a Resilience in D2, what a beast that would be.

D2 is another steel I see a lot of domestic Chinese companies using, so it’s gotta be pretty prolific and easy to get there. I’m extremely happy with the D2 in my Steel Will Modus.

I guess I don't really understand the point of your comment. What is being "given away"? There are already knife makers and knife brands in china making knives to a high level of quality with properly treated high end steels. There is testing and data to support this. Do you think they need to have secret information given to them to accomplish this?

From all I read and have seen with my own knives, Spyderco heat treatment is very good, better than most peer companies (domestic & overseas), so make of that what you will.

I still don't see the point. So, Spyderco should not have their knife makers in China using optimal heat treatment? (I guess that assumes that they can't properly do it on their own?) Why would Spyderco not want the best processing regardless of where the knife is made?

It’s common knowledge that designs, processes and intellectual properties are regularly stolen by Chinese companies, and there’s really no repercussion. This is yet another reason I think it’s best to keep Chinese steel in the Chinese knives. It’s one thing for a heat treating process for a domestic steel to get out. It’s their own steel and as others have already pointed out there is already very good heat treatments coming from Chinese companies, it wouldn’t be a huge deal. It’s another thing for the heat treatment process developed by Spyderco for a high end American or other imported steel to get stolen and exploited by a Chinese company.

Okay, but this thread was started about making what the OP says is an improvement in the steel by switching to Sandvik (not exactly high end steel). I still find the comment about giving away secrets to the Chinese to be off base. The Chinese are already capable of heat treating steels like m390 to spot on HRC. They don't appear to need anyone to "give away secrets." Aside from that we are talking about Spyderco's own maker in China. Why would Spyderco keep information from them that will result in the best quality Spyderco/Byrd product. It's nonsensical.
So many knives, so few pockets...

[willc]

I have used Spydercos 8cr knives for quite a few years and if you actually use and know how to sharpen it is a great steel for work.
There is no reason for Spyderco to upgrade these models.

Spyderco has an abundance of similar models in more expensive steels.
The budget line fills its category very well.

[The Meat man]

I have used Spydercos 8cr knives for quite a few years and if you actually use and know how to sharpen it is a great steel for work.
There is no reason for Spyderco to upgrade these models.

Spyderco has an abundance of similar models in more expensive steels.
The budget line fills its category very well.

This is a good point. The budget line isn't necessarily meant to target knife afi's and steel junkies. The fine points of steel differences would probably be largely lost on the majority of budget line buyers.

[Doc Dan]

I do not think it is worth the cost to move to 14C28N, which is a good steel in my experience. I am sure there are upgraded steels of Chinese origin that could be used if an upgrade were to happen. Cost is the reason for going to China in the first place. Good, honest makers in China can and do make good products (just don't buy their cars!). Spyderco budget knives are very good for the money, better than any American companies' knives from China I have seen. However, I would not want to pay a bunch more for such a knife or I could just get one make here.

[rabbitanarchy14]

i honestly like spydercos 8cr13. i have bought a few for family for the main reasons that it is stainless enough, it stays sharp long enough, and is tuff enough for non knife people but at the same time if they mess up the edge or just beat it up its easy and quick for me to fix it.

[Londinium Armoury]

Hi Karl_H,

Welcome to our forum.

Hey Aaron,

We used the Sandvik steel in the Grasshopper because we didn't want to use the 3Cr that the maker wanted to use. We felt that the Sandvik option would perform better than 3Cr.

Frankly, I've not much luck in dealing with Sandvik. Many times discussions at shows led to their going to send samples, which I never received.

sal

I love the Grasshopper in Sandvik 27, I carry it everyday as my back up and small box opening knife. I just contacted Sandvik for you and requested in writing some samples be sent to your factory in Golden. Here is their in house heat treating process in case they come through with the samples.
https://www.materials.sandvik/en-gb/pro ... hardening/

Have a good evening.

[JuPaul]

i honestly like spydercos 8cr13. i have bought a few for family for the main reasons that it is stainless enough, it stays sharp long enough, and is tuff enough for non knife people but at the same time if they mess up the edge or just beat it up its easy and quick for me to fix it.

I've been perfectly happy with 8cr on the Bow River. I use it as my mushrooming knife, so I like that I can easily get it super sharp. I'm frequently cutting into rocky soil and using the tip to pick out little rocks, dirt, and leaves from the mushrooms I cut. After last fall and this spring, I haven't chipped it or had any problems, and after reprofiling it last year, I've only touched it up once - more because I wanted to than because it needed it. Of course mushrooms aren't abrasive at all, so super edge retention isn't really a concern for me in this case. Plus if I really damage it somehow, it's cheap to replace. I've really come to love my 4v and k390, etc. for edc, but spyderco's 8cr has it's place, too. I'm planning to get an Astute when they come out since the design is so beautiful.