Closing a CBBL - alternatives

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JuPaul
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Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#1

Post by JuPaul »

Wartstein has been helping me think of ways to close a cbbl Manix lw that do not involve using the pocket clip to grip the handle (this is harder for me to do with the wire clip, unlike with the regular clip on the g10 manix). Here's one he suggested:

"You still pull the CBBL with thumb and index finger,but don´t put the other three fingers on the clip, but like in a "regular grip" around the handle (so middlefinger, ringfinger, pinky on the downside of the handle) - for me that is even easier to do than with the fingers on the clip - ?! (And the knife is more secure in my hand) . but it might not be for your hands of course
Then you just let the blade drop (or give it a little shake if it is not free dropping) like many do with a backlock
From there on you just do whatever you´d do when you´re closing a backlock."

Unfortunately I can't seem to do this with my fingers high enough on the handle to catch the choil when the blade drops, so it leaves my fingers in the path of the blade. Am I not understanding this technique, or are my hands just too small?

Anyone have other suggestions?

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Ez556
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#2

Post by Ez556 »

Sorry in advance for all the photos, this is the best way I can think of to convey how I do it. This is how I’m assuming you close it bracing against the clip, which is also how I normally close it.
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Ti is uh, 300 dollars.
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Ez556
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#3

Post by Ez556 »

If your hands are big enough, this is another way I close it, with the butt in my palm and my thumb and index pinching the lock, no other fingers are involved in this one, so obviously no bracing. Flick the wrist to close.
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Ti is uh, 300 dollars.
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ThomC
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#4

Post by ThomC »

My experience with the CBBL is limited to 2 day-use with the XL, but I've tried several methods :
- using my thumb on the show side, I pull on the cage and let the blade drop on my index and close like a backlock.
- holding the knife with a full grip, fingers out of the blade path, I pull the cage on both sides and snap it shut

Those are the methods I've found work for me so far.
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Ez556
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#5

Post by Ez556 »

This one is less “safe” I guess, but if I wanna close the knife more slowly without needing a wrist flick, I’ll use my thumb on the lock and my index finger on the back of the blade, fully disengage the lock and move the blade slightly closed with my index finger. Then I’ll let go of the lock, reposition my hand and close it the rest of the way with my thumb or index finger. My fingers are in the path of the blade for the first part, so you wanna make sure you are holding the knife with the edge facing up so when you unlock it it doesn’t fall shut and that you also get the lock fully disengaged before you push on the blade, otherwise if you put pressure on the blade before the lock is fully disengaged it can snap shut when it does disengage. If you need to you can move your middle finger up and use it on the other side of the lock if you can’t fully disengage it with your thumb alone. Sorry for my gross wound on my index finger, I got pinched yesterday setting up a bed.
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Last edited by Ez556 on Sun May 17, 2020 9:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Ti is uh, 300 dollars.
SG89
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#6

Post by SG89 »

Well coming from my small-handed experience with multiple manix2 g10s and lightweights it doesn't matter about your grip. If you get a hard to close manix from the jump it will always be difficult. You don't have the time to break it in. You are at a physical disadvantage hand/finger lengthwise for this lock. I gave up on the CBBL several times throughout the years bc it's frustrating trying to close one when it seems like everyone else on the forum has no issues with it. However, I decided to try the Manix2 Rex45 g10 and right out of the box the lock was stupid easy to unlock (yet still strong lockup). So yeah it's not about you so don't feel bad. It's 100 percent just getting lucky on getting an easier to unlock manix2 straight out of the box. Again this is just my opinion. Sorry if this came across as gruff. The Manix2 is a wonderful design and I'm so glad I found one I can easily unlock. I actually never found a lightweight that was as easy to unlock as this rexg10
Last edited by SG89 on Sun May 17, 2020 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ez556
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#7

Post by Ez556 »

This is the last method I consciously use to close it, I had to do it with my left hand so I don’t cheat and use the clip, this is how I normally do it with my left hand though. My fingers end up laying more flat so there’s more contact on the handle, but I release the lock much the same as I do with my normal closing technique. Again, blade is shut with the flick of the wrist.
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Ti is uh, 300 dollars.
JuPaul
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#8

Post by JuPaul »

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:14 am
Well coming from my small-handed experience with multiple manix2 g10s and lightweights it doesn't matter about your grip. If you get a hard to close manix from the jump it will always be difficult. You don't have the time to break it in. You are at a physical disadvantage hand/finger lengthwise for this lock. I gave up on the CBBL several times throughout the years bc it's frustrating trying to close one when it seems like everyone else on the forum has no issues with it. However, I decided to try the Manix2 Rex45 g10 and right out of the box the lock was stupid easy to unlock (yet still strong lockup). So yeah it's not about you so don't feel bad. It's 100 percent just getting lucky on getting an easier to unlock manix2 straight out of the box. Again this is just my opinion. Sorry if this came across as gruff. The Manix2 is a wonderful design and I'm so glad I found one I can easily unlock. I actually never found a lightweight that was as easy to unlock as this rexg10
That rex45 manix is absolutely the smoothest cbbl I've had - just amazingly easy to close out of the box. But I've had good luck with the g10 manixes in general - my KC cruwear was almost as great out of the box, as was my CE production model. And the few others I have still had drop-shut action, although the locks were a bit stiffer to disengage. It's the lightweights that seem to give me trouble - this s90v version doesn't drop closed freely (or drop freely at all), and the lock is stiffer. Double whammy.
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JuPaul
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#9

Post by JuPaul »

Ez556 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:15 am
This is the last method I consciously use to close it, I had to do it with my left hand so I don’t cheat and use the clip, this is how I normally do it with my left hand though. My fingers end up laying more flat so there’s more contact on the handle, but I release the lock much the same as I do with my normal closing technique. Again, blade is shut with the flick of the wrist.
Image
Thanks, Ez...gonna give these a try!
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#10

Post by JRinFL »

JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am
Wartstein has been helping me think of ways to close a cbbl Manix lw that do not involve using the pocket clip to grip the handle (this is harder for me to do with the wire clip, unlike with the regular clip on the g10 manix). Here's one he suggested:

"You still pull the CBBL with thumb and index finger,but don´t put the other three fingers on the clip, but like in a "regular grip" around the handle (so middlefinger, ringfinger, pinky on the downside of the handle) - for me that is even easier to do than with the fingers on the clip - ?! (And the knife is more secure in my hand) . but it might not be for your hands of course
Then you just let the blade drop (or give it a little shake if it is not free dropping) like many do with a backlock
From there on you just do whatever you´d do when you´re closing a backlock."

Unfortunately I can't seem to do this with my fingers high enough on the handle to catch the choil when the blade drops, so it leaves my fingers in the path of the blade. Am I not understanding this technique, or are my hands just too small?

Anyone have other suggestions?
You could modify your method just a bit by holding the knife horizontally, releasing the lock allowing the blade fall to vertical then remove your fingers from the blade path. Rotate the knife back to vertical and the blade will finish closing.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#11

Post by Sumdumguy »

Ez556 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:06 am
If your hands are big enough, this is another way I close it, with the butt in my palm and my thumb and index pinching the lock, no other fingers are involved in this one, so obviously no bracing. Flick the wrist to close.
Image
This is the only way I could ever close a CBBL reliably. I tried to like them, but they just don't work for me.
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#12

Post by RustyIron »

JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am
Unfortunately I can't seem to do this with my fingers high enough on the handle to catch the choil when the blade drops, so it leaves my fingers in the path of the blade. Am I not understanding this technique, or are my hands just too small?
Yeah, maybe this isn't the best technique for the Manix 2. I tried it with my size 10.5 hands, and my finger is in the way of the falling blade. If you're going to do this, wear dark colored clothes that won't stain, or keep a supply of bandaids handy.

Did you try it with the butt in the hollow part of your palm, like Ez556 suggested? That's how I roll, but I do use the other three fingers just to keep the knife stable in my hand. Actuating the CBBL pushes the butt of the knife into your palm, so you needn't place any extraordinary pressure on the clip.

This brings up another point. In my opinion, the strength of the spring in the CBBL knives is excessive. If the springs were lighter, you wouldn't have this problem at all. Why was such a strong spring used? Did Spyderco get a good deal on a 40' container full of out-of-spec springs? On my G10 model, I cut the spring just a hair, and it's better than factory. My intention is to cut it a little more. If someone could lead me to the exact screws I would need to replace the rivets in my LW Manixes, I'd chop the springs in a heartbeat.
JuPaul
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#13

Post by JuPaul »

RustyIron wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:08 am
JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am
Did you try it with the butt in the hollow part of your palm, like Ez556 suggested? That's how I roll, but I do use the other three fingers just to keep the knife stable in my hand. Actuating the CBBL pushes the butt of the knife into your palm, so you needn't place any extraordinary pressure on the clip.
Yeah, I can't reach the lock like that, unfortunately. Small hands strike again. :(

Image

I usually rest the butt low on my palm and hold the clip to secure the knife in place like this. Works great on the g10 manix with the regular clip and grippy g10. Not as well with the wire clip and (imo) slick frcp.

Image

And just to clarify, I can definitely still operate the lw like this, it's just not nearly as easy or comfortable.
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Ez556
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#14

Post by Ez556 »

JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:25 am
Yeah, I can't reach the lock like that, unfortunately. Small hands strike again. :(
I’m going to use this as an opportunity to once again advocate for a ~Native 5 or Chaparral sized mini-Manix :p
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Ti is uh, 300 dollars.
JuPaul
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#15

Post by JuPaul »

Ez556 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:10 am
JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:25 am
Yeah, I can't reach the lock like that, unfortunately. Small hands strike again. :(
I’m going to use this as an opportunity to once again advocate for a ~Native 5 or Chaparral sized mini-Manix :p
I am definitely on board with that, although I really like the size of the current Manix as well. So I'd also like to advocate for a longer lynch wire clip replacement clip. The only one they currently make is the medium size, which is significantly shorter than the stock wire clip so it doesn't help me get that more solid grip.
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#16

Post by DTPrime »

My guess is Wartstein doesn't let his blade drop onto a finger but rather holds it horizontal so it ends up pointing down a right angle from the handle and then closes it the rest of the way, could be wrong but if not I don't see a way to do it without fingers in the path.

I think my right hand is roughly the same size as yours thanks to a nasty wrist break, at least based on the photo with it in the middle of your palm my fingers line up in the same place and also don’t reach. Unless it was just for visibility I would try turning it more towards your arm/body when trying to close it the "normal" way in the last pic, it should help you get more leverage with your thumb and palm muscle which does 90% of the work on these. It's almost the same "bic flick" grip as the Ikuchi now that I think about it, which if I recall also gave you some trouble so maybe this is less than helpful :o
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Wartstein
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#17

Post by Wartstein »

JuPaul wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am


Unfortunately I can't seem to do this with my fingers high enough on the handle to catch the choil when the blade drops, so it leaves my fingers in the path of the blade. Am I not understanding this technique, or are my hands just too small?
DTPrime wrote: My guess is Wartstein doesn't let his blade drop onto a finger but rather holds it horizontal so it ends up pointing down a right angle from the handle and then closes it the rest of the way, could be wrong but if not I don't see a way to do it without fingers in the path.
Hi Julia and DTPrime.

it is both no problem to let the blade (=the choil of course) drop onto a finger and also not to put the fingers (the middle finger) high enough for that!
I think what your "mistake" here is: You think that it is necessary to put the butt end of the knife on/in the palm in order to operate the lock tabs. But you really don´t have to! Just gripping the handle with middlefinger, ringfinger, pinky as far up the handle as you like to ensure that the middle finger is hit by the choil when the blade drops, and press the upper part of the handle against your palm gives you way enough counterpressure / leverage to pull the lock tabs.

So:
Just grab the handle with middle-, ringfinger and pinky far enough up the handle that the middle finger will be hit by the choil (and not the edge)
Pull the lock with thumb and index finger
Drop the choil onto the middle finger
close the half-open blade like you would do with a backlock..

Maybe these two pics can illustrate what I mean

Image

Image
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#18

Post by Wartstein »

Ez556 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:11 am
This one is less “safe” I guess, but if I wanna close the knife more slowly without needing a wrist flick, I’ll use my thumb on the lock and my index finger on the back of the blade, fully disengage the lock and move the blade slightly closed with my index finger. Then I’ll let go of the lock, reposition my hand and close it the rest of the way with my thumb or index finger.

....

This is another method (beside the "choil drop" on the finger) I also use a lot! But imho it is really not "slow"- one can do it pretty fast and still very safe. /

Generally I have to say: I almost never use the seemingly very common method Julia prefers: Press three fingers against the clip, pull the lock with thumb and index finger and "swing" the blade close

This method may seem very fast and secure, but just for me it is really not necessarely:

- It is certainly fast from where all your fingers are already positioned to perform this method, but if you start from a realistic user grip (so holding the knife like you do when cutting), for me especially the "backlock-like" blade drop method is faster
- Concerning "safety": The "fingers on the clip" method certainly keeps the fingers out of the blade path, but that comes for the price that the knife is less secure in hand (think wet, greasy, numb... fingers). The "choil drops on your middle finger" method is equally safe for the fingers imho, plus your holding the knife in a very secure grip.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#19

Post by Wartstein »

Last but not least ;)

My most preferred (and for me safest and fastest) CBBL method is a variation of the "choil drop on the finger" method:

- I keep the knife in a natural "user grip"
- Just move the thumb to the lock tab
- Pull the lock just with the thumb
- Let the choil drop on my index finger (and not middle finger, like I´d have to if I operated the lock with thumb AND index finger)
- Close the knife completely just like you would with a backlock (several ways to do so)

Funny thing is: I almost never use the "choil drops on finger" method with backlocks, but most of the time with CBBL knives...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Closing a CBBL - alternatives

#20

Post by DTPrime »

Hey Wartstein, I was assuming two-finger operation is necessary based on the description, if it's thumb-only operable it certainly makes it easier whatever way you choose :D

Mine is easily operable with just my thumb thankfully, though as mentioned these CS DLC models seem to be stiff relative to most Manix. I haven't tried a DLC LW model in any other steel so I'm not sure if it's across the board but it's certainly the stiffest I've encountered vs my satin LW and g10 models. I'm able to operate it all ways you've described though, I guess it's just more awkward for me to choke up to close it than keep my last three fingers in their natural grip around the clip. To be fair I rarely use it in a choked-up grip in general so it's probably a lack of muscle memory more than anything. For me the finger on clip method feels more secure overall and keeps fingers out of the blade path entirely when using some wrist flick to close, which I do on this model. If you're not looking for a single motion close than I agree, it's a moot point either way as the amount of time between the two is negligible, but my preference is for single motion when reasonable. I don't have to use knives in wet or very cold conditions but if I had numb or wet fingers I have to imagine I'd be even more inclined to avoid having them in path, but I'll happily defer to those with experience on that one!
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