PRICING

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
darthblade20
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Re: PRICING

Postby darthblade20 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pm

I am new to this forum, but not new to knife collecting, lol. As some have mentioned here, I find that a lot of the sprint runs are quite a good value (if you can get it during the initial release). The pricing I do get frustrated with is the automatic increase every year of the base model production knives. I am a Manix collector and I really don't think the blurple S110V is worth $171 when I can get S90V ones for <$140.

Maybe its just me, but I feel like a more appropriate price is what it was last year and it shouldn't have gone up. Its frustrating, but I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here, lol.

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Tucson Tom
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Re: PRICING

Postby Tucson Tom » Mon May 18, 2020 11:07 pm

I asked a real estate broker once about "a good deal" and he said a good deal is when both the buyer and seller are pleased.

For me, it comes down to two things:

1) If I can't afford it, I don't buy it -- this keeps me out of debt.
2) If it costs more than it is worth to me, I don't buy at and spend my money on something else.

So far neither of these has kept me from buying a fair number of Spyderco knives.

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Re: PRICING

Postby jtoler_9 » Tue May 19, 2020 12:26 am

I don’t care for MAP. It makes shopping for knives boring and mundane. But I’m not a vendor, so it doesn’t matter what I think.

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Wartstein
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Re: PRICING

Postby Wartstein » Tue May 19, 2020 2:40 am

Did not want to post in this thread actually (have done so before in similar threads), but holding my new Manix 2 LW in hands right now I feel spontaneously like sharing my thoughts:

I paid 129 Euro for this knife (converted around 140 USD), and it is just worth every cent of it (like every Spyderco I bought so far):

It´s not only about the amazing ergos and functionality the Manix offers and the joy this brings me each time I use the knife.
I know right from this forum how many time (years in many cases?) go into the process till such a design like the Manix is just right.
I think of all the options you get with this (or other) design(s), first and foremost the cool lightweight (as an alternative to the G10)
I realize that this comes from a company who cares about their employees, and as far as I can tell has ethical guidelines that I fully can share.
I appreciate that I actually have the opportunity to discuss stuff with the head of the company and you all here on the forum.

The Manix alone just by design without any further knowledge would have already been worth the money I paid to me.
But all the background makes it even more so.

Are there Spydercos that are too expensive for me, or just don´t fit my personal needs enough for the money?
Sure, there are. But I just don´t buy those, and there are more than enough Spyderco alternatives left for me... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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standy99
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Re: PRICING

Postby standy99 » Tue May 19, 2020 3:52 am

sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
No other company I know of is this respectful of someone who makes aftermarket parts for their product.
This is why I love Spyderco as a company.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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standy99
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Re: PRICING

Postby standy99 » Tue May 19, 2020 4:02 am

skx013k2 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:43 pm
I don’t mind paying a bit more for Spyderco given their quality and purpose built offerings (Salt). I would gladly pay a few $ more for a Golden made knife. However, there is something that makes Spyderco overpriced. . . *the lack of deep carry pocket clip*.

For most models I need to add another $25 for an aftermarket deep carry clip.

A $130 Native 5 Salt becomes $155.
A $91 Salt 2 becomes $116.
A $84 base model, VG-10, foreign made, Delica becomes $109.

That’s 20% of the knife price for some models. This takes Spydero from a little expensive to overpriced. I know Spyderco wants to support the clip makers, but they should then offer a clip-less model for a $20 discount.
If you just change the deep carry clip between knives it becomes a lot cheaper.
I have one deep carry clip between five Delica knives. I worked out the math at four I could buy a fifth knife if I just shared deep carry clips ;)
I have three deep carry clips that cover probably 12 different knives.

Also over 50% of people don’t use or want deep carry clips

And could you imagine the headache for Spyderco if every knife had Two variations of normal and deep carry. Imagine the threads because someone got the wrong one they ordered accidentally Had to send it back
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Re: PRICING

Postby Cowboyfromhell » Tue May 19, 2020 4:38 am

My issue with spydercos pricing is 50/50. Some models are worth the money and others are not imo....the ladybug and delica come to mind for ridiculous pricing.

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Re: PRICING

Postby Surfingringo » Tue May 19, 2020 7:32 am

Slash wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:09 am
IS NOT in-line with inflation. Less the price of chicken or pork due to coronavirus issues
Haven't bought a spyderco in months
Sorry for rant and post, just had to let you know
I understand there're many hands in the cookie jar. But, unless something is done I won't be buying
For example $168 for siren? Like the design, just not paying that

Long time buyer, collector, user in case you're wondering
HI Slash, I feel you on the concern over inflation. I feel that on everything though, not just knives and certainly not just Spyderco. I too would love to be able to buy high end USA made knives for less money but I think the only way to do that would be to sacrifice quality or for a maker to offer knives at a price that didn’t allow them to stay in business. As it is, I feel like Spyderco offers a very fair value for their production knives in comparison with their competitors. I appreciate the constant experimentation and innovation they offer. I don’t really feel like I pay much of a premium for that but even if I did, I would be ok with that.

Regarding the Siren price, it seems to me to be right in line with other Golden made folders. The Siren falls right in between the PM2 and the Military in both size and price.

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Re: PRICING

Postby VooDooChild » Tue May 19, 2020 8:03 am

I have still noticed that you get what you pay for. There is definitely a spectrum to that. There are some very good cheap products out there, and there are some not so great expensive products, but for the most part I have noticed quality and design fall in line with price.

Last year I got a usa made knife from one of the big compainies at a great price. I liked the design and was curious how they offered it at such a good price. Then I got it and realised it wasnt half the knife any of my seki made spydercos were. Didnt matter where it was made. Price determined the quality, and the design that I thought I liked turned out to not be as good as I thought. The operation of the knife was also not enjoyable.

We could talk about this with anything but power tools are a good example as well. A lot of big name brands sold out and started making stuff on the cheap. Thats great for someone who uses those tools a few times a year. Bit if you look at the people who use that stuff everyday, they pay a premium for the better product.

I like this story. A company was hiring welders for $25-$50 an hour. A man applied and they asked him to weld something to see what he knew. He did two welds one was bad and one was good. They asked him why he did two different welds and he replied one is what you get for $25 an hour, and the other is what you get for $50 an hour.

I guess my point is there is a difference between getting ripped off and then paying for a quality product.

I also surf by the way. Actually just got out of the water this morning. Had my DFLY salt 2 se on me in case anyone wanted to know. I used to wonder why the markup on surfboards was always so high, considering the cost of the materials in them is usually less than half of the finished product. Then I started trying to get into shaping, glassing, and making some of my own. I realised pretty quickly material cost are not the place where you determine a price point.

Different resturaunts probably arent paying too much of a difference for a lot of the basic food stuff they order. Still a big difference between a good resturaunt and one that is just ok.
Sorry for the rant.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

skx013k2
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Re: PRICING

Postby skx013k2 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 am

sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.

You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Tue May 19, 2020 1:31 pm

skx013k2 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 am
sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.

You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
Or it would be forcing an unwanted change on the other consumers, who don't share your views.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Re: PRICING

Postby VooDooChild » Tue May 19, 2020 1:41 pm

skx013k2 wrote:
sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.

You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
HA! I dont think spyderco is intentionally limiting their product.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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JRinFL
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Re: PRICING

Postby JRinFL » Tue May 19, 2020 1:50 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pm
JRinFL wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm
The buyer/seller relationship is hostile with both sides seeking to get the better end of the deal. If they reach a truly equitable bargain then they likely both feel they left something on the table.
If that's the case then they're doing it wrong. If both sides feel they got the worse end of the transaction, then why the heck did the transaction happen at all? If they're both worse off, they never should have completed the sale.

In general, I buy things because I feel like I am better off with them than the money I spent. I'd rather have the Native LW Rex 45 than $112, for example. Likewise, Spyderco sells the knife because they feel that they would rather have the money they make from it (probably a lot less than the $112 retail price) than the knife sitting in their inventory.

Trading (and all purchases fall in this category) makes both parties _better off_ (not worse off) because otherwise they simply wouldn't do the deal. Anytime you purchase something you do so because you feel it makes you better off. And when you sell something, you do that because you think selling it will make you better off. In voluntary transaction (like buying a pocket knife), both sides are made better off.
I did not say they were "worse off", those are your words. I said they both feel they "left something on the table" meaning the seller wishes they made a bit more money & the buyer wishes they paid a bit less. You could say it was a fair deal.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Re: PRICING

Postby JRinFL » Tue May 19, 2020 1:54 pm

sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
I wish you ran Apple and Microsoft. They've been doing just that for decades.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Tue May 19, 2020 1:55 pm

JRinFL wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:50 pm
TomAiello wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pm
JRinFL wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm
The buyer/seller relationship is hostile with both sides seeking to get the better end of the deal. If they reach a truly equitable bargain then they likely both feel they left something on the table.
If that's the case then they're doing it wrong. If both sides feel they got the worse end of the transaction, then why the heck did the transaction happen at all? If they're both worse off, they never should have completed the sale.

In general, I buy things because I feel like I am better off with them than the money I spent. I'd rather have the Native LW Rex 45 than $112, for example. Likewise, Spyderco sells the knife because they feel that they would rather have the money they make from it (probably a lot less than the $112 retail price) than the knife sitting in their inventory.

Trading (and all purchases fall in this category) makes both parties _better off_ (not worse off) because otherwise they simply wouldn't do the deal. Anytime you purchase something you do so because you feel it makes you better off. And when you sell something, you do that because you think selling it will make you better off. In voluntary transaction (like buying a pocket knife), both sides are made better off.
I did not say they were "worse off", those are your words. I said they both feel they "left something on the table" meaning the seller wishes they made a bit more money & the buyer wishes they paid a bit less. You could say it was a fair deal.
I think that's true for 99% of all transactions, regardless of what the product or service is.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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ThomC
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Re: PRICING

Postby ThomC » Tue May 19, 2020 1:56 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:03 am
I have still noticed that you get what you pay for. There is definitely a spectrum to that. There are some very good cheap products out there, and there are some not so great expensive products, but for the most part I have noticed quality and design fall in line with price.

Last year I got a usa made knife from one of the big compainies at a great price. I liked the design and was curious how they offered it at such a good price. Then I got it and realised it wasnt half the knife any of my seki made spydercos were. Didnt matter where it was made. Price determined the quality, and the design that I thought I liked turned out to not be as good as I thought. The operation of the knife was also not enjoyable.

We could talk about this with anything but power tools are a good example as well. A lot of big name brands sold out and started making stuff on the cheap. Thats great for someone who uses those tools a few times a year. Bit if you look at the people who use that stuff everyday, they pay a premium for the better product.

I like this story. A company was hiring welders for $25-$50 an hour. A man applied and they asked him to weld something to see what he knew. He did two welds one was bad and one was good. They asked him why he did two different welds and he replied one is what you get for $25 an hour, and the other is what you get for $50 an hour.

I guess my point is there is a difference between getting ripped off and then paying for a quality product.

I also surf by the way. Actually just got out of the water this morning. Had my DFLY salt 2 se on me in case anyone wanted to know. I used to wonder why the markup on surfboards was always so high, considering the cost of the materials in them is usually less than half of the finished product. Then I started trying to get into shaping, glassing, and making some of my own. I realised pretty quickly material cost are not the place where you determine a price point.

Different resturaunts probably arent paying too much of a difference for a lot of the basic food stuff they order. Still a big difference between a good resturaunt and one that is just ok.
Sorry for the rant.
All of this. I've been a guitarist for almost 12 years, and have looked into all of the process of guitar making out of pure curiosity, and have visited a local custom shop for a quote. Half of it was material and the other half was labor. It only gets more complicated and expenses keep piling on when your business expands.
Producing from a factory doesn't mean you can simp on manual labour as CNC products still need extensive human intervention out of the machine.
Even in brands having extensive line-ups and models, the cost for limited runs akin to sprints is justified by the extra attention going into it, though I'd argue that signature models can get out of hand (looking at you Jackskon).

On topic : I find Spyderco's pricing for Golden models reasonable in 90% of the cases considering the overall performance, ergonomics, ease of use and pleasure derived from the product. Though a family business (see my thread on factory choice and Sal's answers) it is not a small business and there are loads of things to consider in the final price of a knife : marketing, product development (Eric's comment on the Shaman being the result of 2? 4? years of design and testing), labour, tariffs, dealer cuts etc.
U.S. labour is more expensive than Chinese (though I don't see it lasting another ten years), Q.C. is pretty much spot on, and the quality is there in the end.

Yes, there are knives I find too expensive for what they offer (as in camo G10 and DLC being more expensive among other things) but I don't think a 'base' Golden Spyderco is overpriced, considering what some others companies offer at the same price point.
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In the knoife box :Millie, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : Tool steel/CE/SE Millie, Rex 45 Native Chief, K2, Slysz Bowie, K390 Police 4

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MichaelScott
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Re: PRICING

Postby MichaelScott » Tue May 19, 2020 1:58 pm

There is so much value added to every Spyderco knife that often I think they are under priced
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JRinFL
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Re: PRICING

Postby JRinFL » Tue May 19, 2020 2:00 pm

Albatross wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:55 pm

...

I think that's true for 99% of all transactions, regardless of what the product or service is.
Yes! My point is that the buyer and seller relationship is adversarial to some greater or lesser degree, always.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Tue May 19, 2020 2:14 pm

JRinFL wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 2:00 pm
Albatross wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:55 pm

...

I think that's true for 99% of all transactions, regardless of what the product or service is.
Yes! My point is that the buyer and seller relationship is adversarial to some greater or lesser degree, always.
It is. This point is getting lost in the noise it seems.

Ultimately, the consumers decide the value of goods or services with their purchases, which makes this thread sort of pointless. If it's not a good value, complaints wont change it. Sales will.

We are several pages in, with no more understanding than on the first page.

I don't think a new car should cost $20k+, but complaints don't change the price of cars. The market does. If enough people buy used cars, automakers will reassess the market, and find that lower cost is the only option for them. This is the same for everything in a free market.

I'm starting to wonder if we have been spoiled. Maybe we have been given too much say. Spyderco listens to the consumers, and bends over backwards to offer new models, combinations, etc. Maybe there's too much of a good thing, and maybe we feel entitled now. I like choices, but I'm not liking the recent increase in hostility. The world is changing and most of us will suffer with it, but I don't think this is the place to direct our frustrations.

Sorry for the rant.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

skx013k2
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Re: PRICING

Postby skx013k2 » Tue May 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Albatross wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:31 pm
skx013k2 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 am
sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm
Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal
I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.

You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
Or it would be forcing an unwanted change on the other consumers, who don't share your views.

Sorry, my comment came off more negatively than intended. I’m a big fan of Spyderco. Big fan of Sal. Big fan of them looking out for the aftermarket companies. I’ll continue to consider Sypdero every time I look to purchase a top quality knife.

Just doesn't change the fact that it adds $25 to some of their knife prices and that often (not always) makes them feel overpriced for me. Still great product - but an expensive one.


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