PRICING

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
JohnDoe99
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Re: PRICING

Postby JohnDoe99 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:56 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:51 am


The theory is basically supply and demand.
Which determines price.....but if you install a price control, then supply/demand is eliminated. That is why you install a price control (MAP), because the current supply/demand situation has become unfavorable to you, for whatever reason. So, you attack the market.

That is totally okay, but don't then turn around and talk about supporting markets or using the "your money" point or hit on the Federal Reserve. They are in essence doing the same exact thing Spyderco is doing with the MAP, and which you are trying to defend. Regulation is regulation. The only way around it is black markets, which in this case is essentially Ebay or r/knifeswap. Long live Ebay!

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Re: PRICING

Postby StuntZombie » Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm

Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
Chris

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Haves: Manbug Salt, Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK, Wharncliffe Delica, Ti Squeak, Wharncliffe Dragonfly, DLT Trading Cru-Wear Delica, Gen 1 Delica, LC200N Pacific Salt 2, K390 Endura (2nd)

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm

StuntZombie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
They pop up every couple months or so.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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zuludelta
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Re: PRICING

Postby zuludelta » Mon May 18, 2020 1:12 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:13 am
For me its the size of my collection that is the problem.

Spending $200 on one tool that you will use every day for the rest of your life seems reasonable.

Having a few different versions of that tool for different tasks also seems reasonable. A salt series, a stainless edc, a tool steel/supersteel model for rough stuff.

Now wanting to have a collection of knives is when I have to be honest with myself. Do I really need 10 different models all in the same steel? Do I really need 5 of the same model in different steels?
This is exactly where I am in my knife hobby—I'm actively trying to limit my knife collection to a reasonable minimum, focusing on design/functionality & not so much on materials/exclusivity. Don't get me wrong, I like having multiple knives in a diverse array of designs & steels (that's what makes me a knife hobbyist!) but so much of the current knife hobby is driven by FOMO & conditioned consumerism, and I think it's very important to not get sucked in by that and to learn to be happy with what we have (especially when "what we have" as far as knives go is already much, much more than any one person would really need).

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Re: PRICING

Postby jdw » Mon May 18, 2020 1:26 pm

Pancake wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 am
Did you know that I bought Manix 2 REX45 G10 for 175 €?
Now you know it. I think that was fair price.

I think that's a fair price for the knife too. It's not a great deal but it's worth every bit of that for real world use.
Last edited by jdw on Mon May 18, 2020 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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JonLeBlanc
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Re: PRICING

Postby JonLeBlanc » Mon May 18, 2020 1:26 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:51 am

Inflation by definition is a decrease in the value of money.[...]

Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply.
Ding ding ding! Too often this concept is misunderstood and misapplied.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Re: PRICING

Postby ugaarguy » Mon May 18, 2020 1:41 pm

StuntZombie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
As I wrote a little further up in the thread, Sal has written here on the forum that he and Eric are increasing the number of pieces for each sprint. It seems that discussions here lead to, or at the very least reinforced, the awareness that sprint run sizes need to be greatly increased to meet demand.

How we phrase things also matters. I'm certainly guilty of venting my own frustrations as accusations at times.

BUT, I also have my curiosity about pricing too. The example that most confuses me is the Native 5 line vs the Manix 2 line. Both lines are made in Golden. The N5 LW is $105 with an S30V blade and screw together construction. The Manix 2 LW is riveted together and has a BD1N blade for $102. Yet, the N5 G10 with the same S30V blade, still liner-less, is $160; while the Manix 2 G10 adds steel liners, goes from riveted to screw together construction, and upgrades from BD1N to S30V, but is only $123. The Para 3 line splits the difference, going from from $98 for the BD1N FRN LW to $144 for the S30V G10 model. Also, the N5 G10 Rex 45 sprint was only $3.50 more than the standard S30V G10 model? On the surface, it's a bit confusing, and makes we wonder what else goes into the price difference on models within the same line.

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Re: PRICING

Postby JuPaul » Mon May 18, 2020 2:20 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:41 pm
StuntZombie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
As I wrote a little further up in the thread, Sal has written here on the forum that he and Eric are increasing the number of pieces for each sprint. It seems that discussions here lead to, or at the very least reinforced, the awareness that sprint run sizes need to be greatly increased to meet demand.

How we phrase things also matters. I'm certainly guilty of venting my own frustrations as accusations at times.

BUT, I also have my curiosity about pricing too. The example that most confuses me is the Native 5 line vs the Manix 2 line. Both lines are made in Golden. The N5 LW is $105 with an S30V blade and screw together construction. The Manix 2 LW is riveted together and has a BD1N blade for $102. Yet, the N5 G10 with the same S30V blade, still liner-less, is $160; while the Manix 2 G10 adds steel liners, goes from riveted to screw together construction, and upgrades from BD1N to S30V, but is only $123. The Para 3 line splits the difference, going from from $98 for the BD1N FRN LW to $144 for the S30V G10 model. Also, the N5 G10 Rex 45 sprint was only $3.50 more than the standard S30V G10 model? On the surface, it's a bit confusing, and makes we wonder what else goes into the price difference on models within the same line.
I also wonder how the g10 Manix stays so affordable, but I'm sure as heck not complaining! I wonder if the lock contributes to the pricing - easier and cheaper to machine and assemble than comp locks maybe? Less precision machining required than the back lock? Just a guess. Or perhaps spyderco has simply decided to subsidize the manix line, and takes a smaller profit margin on those models.
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Re: PRICING

Postby TomAiello » Mon May 18, 2020 2:34 pm

I believe I remember Sal saying that Spyderco makes a lower margin on the Manix intentionally. Regardless of the reasons, the Manix is an amazing value in a mid range folder.

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sal
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Re: PRICING

Postby sal » Mon May 18, 2020 2:59 pm

StuntZombie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
Hi Chris,

While to some of us, it can certainly feel like taking the 3rd grade over and over, but........Please keep in mind that there are always new people joining the forum and we that have been here longer and maybe know more can teach as you learned. :o

sal

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Re: PRICING

Postby StuntZombie » Mon May 18, 2020 3:32 pm

sal wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:59 pm
StuntZombie wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am
I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
I'd gladly pay a yearly membership for this site if it meant I never saw another thread complaining about sprints or pricing again.
Hi Chris,

While to some of us, it can certainly feel like taking the 3rd grade over and over, but........Please keep in mind that there are always new people joining the forum and we that have been here longer and maybe know more can teach as you learned. :o

sal
Sal, as always, you're right. I've let outside aggravations color my response, and for that I apologize.
Chris

I have a blog! http://thestuntzombie.com/

Haves: Manbug Salt, Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK, Wharncliffe Delica, Ti Squeak, Wharncliffe Dragonfly, DLT Trading Cru-Wear Delica, Gen 1 Delica, LC200N Pacific Salt 2, K390 Endura (2nd)

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RamZar
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Re: PRICING

Postby RamZar » Mon May 18, 2020 4:29 pm

Street prices have gone up continuously the past six years with MAP enforcement, lower MAP discount, higher MSRP, some dealers charging state sales taxes, etc. The answer is to look for relative bargains within the brand and/or buy fewer knives. I’ve opted for the latter.
Last edited by RamZar on Mon May 18, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SubMicron
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Re: PRICING

Postby SubMicron » Mon May 18, 2020 4:44 pm

The marketplace as a whole will always be the final decision maker regarding whether or not a company's prices are inline with what's being offered in their products. If things are too expensive, they just wont sell, forcing the company to lower prices.

Meanwhile Spyderco is selling knives faster than they can make them... and we keep relentlessly demanding more knives, more designs, and bigger sprint runs.

Most companies would increase prices, again, in that situation.

Spyderco's would also be the only knife maker with a long list of knives that sell on the aftermarket for MORE than the original retail price. With consistency, when a sprint run is over, or a model is discontinued, the Ebay prices skyrocket. If you thought $100-$200 was too much, explain that to the people who pay $300-$500 on Ebay for the same knife.

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Re: PRICING

Postby skx013k2 » Mon May 18, 2020 5:43 pm

I don’t mind paying a bit more for Spyderco given their quality and purpose built offerings (Salt). I would gladly pay a few $ more for a Golden made knife. However, there is something that makes Spyderco overpriced. . . *the lack of deep carry pocket clip*.

For most models I need to add another $25 for an aftermarket deep carry clip.

A $130 Native 5 Salt becomes $155.
A $91 Salt 2 becomes $116.
A $84 base model, VG-10, foreign made, Delica becomes $109.

That’s 20% of the knife price for some models. This takes Spydero from a little expensive to overpriced. I know Spyderco wants to support the clip makers, but they should then offer a clip-less model for a $20 discount.

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Re: PRICING

Postby JRinFL » Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm

The buyer/seller relationship is hostile with both sides seeking to get the better end of the deal. If they reach a truly equitable bargain then they likely both feel they left something on the table.
The problem with modern buying and selling is that there are way more hands involved than just the buyer and seller. Taxes, tariffs, fees, middlemen, shippers, etc. Add fiat currency to the mix and you end up where we are now.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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SubMicron
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Re: PRICING

Postby SubMicron » Mon May 18, 2020 9:53 pm

RamZar wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:29 pm
Street prices have gone up continuously the past six years with MAP enforcement, lower MAP discount, higher MSRP, some dealers charging state sales taxes, etc. The answer is to look for relative bargains within the brand and/or buy fewer knives. I’ve opted for the latter.
That's definitely reasonable.

I'm much newer to Spyderco and this level of folding knife, and because of that, my perspective is different. I've only seen one price increase so far. Versus other brands, Spyderco has the superior value proposition, and I've been in acquisition mode for some time now.

Because I follow the topics of tariffs, global trade wars, politics, etc and also work in an industry that's been affected by some of that, hearing of past price increases sounds normal to me.

Thinking it through... if Spyderco knives cost less, I definitely would have been able to buy more than I have. However, if they were made to be at a lower price point, would they still be as desirable?

If people want Spyderco to continue to increase quantities, while increasing the variety, while also increasing the quality, they have to understand that growth costs a lot of money. Growing is one of the most expensive things for a company.

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Pancake
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Re: PRICING

Postby Pancake » Mon May 18, 2020 10:10 pm

jdw wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:26 pm
Pancake wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 am
Did you know that I bought Manix 2 REX45 G10 for 175 €?
Now you know it. I think that was fair price.

I think that's a fair price for the knife too. It's not a great deal but it's worth every bit of that for real world use.
If I make my mind sooner, I could get it for less, maybe 15 € less....on the other hand, I still think it was a good deal.

For me, Ii just don't understand why are some people complaining about price between one Spyderco and some (insert your brand) model. Stop complaining, just buy the other model if you think it is a better value.
Spyderco has loads of models that are affordable and are great value. And they will cut, lock and fold like more premium ones.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45

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RamZar
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Re: PRICING

Postby RamZar » Mon May 18, 2020 10:16 pm

If a model doesn’t sell it gets discontinued or changed a lot of times due to the street price. For instance, you now see far fewer Spyderco folders with G-10 made in Japan. The Chinook4 with S30V & G-10 is a whopping $241.50 whereas a ParaMilitary2 with S30V & G-10 made in the U.S. is only $151.20! So, it makes sense for a lot of the Japanese made models to be Lightweight with FRN at reasonable prices. A lot of the nice Taichung folders only become appealing after they’re discontinued.
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sal
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Re: PRICING

Postby sal » Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm

Hi Skx013K,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?

sal

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Re: PRICING

Postby TomAiello » Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pm

JRinFL wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm
The buyer/seller relationship is hostile with both sides seeking to get the better end of the deal. If they reach a truly equitable bargain then they likely both feel they left something on the table.
If that's the case then they're doing it wrong. If both sides feel they got the worse end of the transaction, then why the heck did the transaction happen at all? If they're both worse off, they never should have completed the sale.

In general, I buy things because I feel like I am better off with them than the money I spent. I'd rather have the Native LW Rex 45 than $112, for example. Likewise, Spyderco sells the knife because they feel that they would rather have the money they make from it (probably a lot less than the $112 retail price) than the knife sitting in their inventory.

Trading (and all purchases fall in this category) makes both parties _better off_ (not worse off) because otherwise they simply wouldn't do the deal. Anytime you purchase something you do so because you feel it makes you better off. And when you sell something, you do that because you think selling it will make you better off. In voluntary transaction (like buying a pocket knife), both sides are made better off.


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