PRICING
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Re: PRICING
I am new to this forum, but not new to knife collecting, lol. As some have mentioned here, I find that a lot of the sprint runs are quite a good value (if you can get it during the initial release). The pricing I do get frustrated with is the automatic increase every year of the base model production knives. I am a Manix collector and I really don't think the blurple S110V is worth $171 when I can get S90V ones for <$140.
Maybe its just me, but I feel like a more appropriate price is what it was last year and it shouldn't have gone up. Its frustrating, but I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here, lol.
Maybe its just me, but I feel like a more appropriate price is what it was last year and it shouldn't have gone up. Its frustrating, but I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here, lol.
- Tucson Tom
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Re: PRICING
I asked a real estate broker once about "a good deal" and he said a good deal is when both the buyer and seller are pleased.
For me, it comes down to two things:
1) If I can't afford it, I don't buy it -- this keeps me out of debt.
2) If it costs more than it is worth to me, I don't buy at and spend my money on something else.
So far neither of these has kept me from buying a fair number of Spyderco knives.
For me, it comes down to two things:
1) If I can't afford it, I don't buy it -- this keeps me out of debt.
2) If it costs more than it is worth to me, I don't buy at and spend my money on something else.
So far neither of these has kept me from buying a fair number of Spyderco knives.
Re: PRICING
I don’t care for MAP. It makes shopping for knives boring and mundane. But I’m not a vendor, so it doesn’t matter what I think.
Re: PRICING
Did not want to post in this thread actually (have done so before in similar threads), but holding my new Manix 2 LW in hands right now I feel spontaneously like sharing my thoughts:
I paid 129 Euro for this knife (converted around 140 USD), and it is just worth every cent of it (like every Spyderco I bought so far):
It´s not only about the amazing ergos and functionality the Manix offers and the joy this brings me each time I use the knife.
I know right from this forum how many time (years in many cases?) go into the process till such a design like the Manix is just right.
I think of all the options you get with this (or other) design(s), first and foremost the cool lightweight (as an alternative to the G10)
I realize that this comes from a company who cares about their employees, and as far as I can tell has ethical guidelines that I fully can share.
I appreciate that I actually have the opportunity to discuss stuff with the head of the company and you all here on the forum.
The Manix alone just by design without any further knowledge would have already been worth the money I paid to me.
But all the background makes it even more so.
Are there Spydercos that are too expensive for me, or just don´t fit my personal needs enough for the money?
Sure, there are. But I just don´t buy those, and there are more than enough Spyderco alternatives left for me...
I paid 129 Euro for this knife (converted around 140 USD), and it is just worth every cent of it (like every Spyderco I bought so far):
It´s not only about the amazing ergos and functionality the Manix offers and the joy this brings me each time I use the knife.
I know right from this forum how many time (years in many cases?) go into the process till such a design like the Manix is just right.
I think of all the options you get with this (or other) design(s), first and foremost the cool lightweight (as an alternative to the G10)
I realize that this comes from a company who cares about their employees, and as far as I can tell has ethical guidelines that I fully can share.
I appreciate that I actually have the opportunity to discuss stuff with the head of the company and you all here on the forum.
The Manix alone just by design without any further knowledge would have already been worth the money I paid to me.
But all the background makes it even more so.
Are there Spydercos that are too expensive for me, or just don´t fit my personal needs enough for the money?
Sure, there are. But I just don´t buy those, and there are more than enough Spyderco alternatives left for me...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- standy99
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Re: PRICING
No other company I know of is this respectful of someone who makes aftermarket parts for their product.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
This is why I love Spyderco as a company.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
- standy99
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Re: PRICING
If you just change the deep carry clip between knives it becomes a lot cheaper.skx013k2 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 5:43 pmI don’t mind paying a bit more for Spyderco given their quality and purpose built offerings (Salt). I would gladly pay a few $ more for a Golden made knife. However, there is something that makes Spyderco overpriced. . . *the lack of deep carry pocket clip*.
For most models I need to add another $25 for an aftermarket deep carry clip.
A $130 Native 5 Salt becomes $155.
A $91 Salt 2 becomes $116.
A $84 base model, VG-10, foreign made, Delica becomes $109.
That’s 20% of the knife price for some models. This takes Spydero from a little expensive to overpriced. I know Spyderco wants to support the clip makers, but they should then offer a clip-less model for a $20 discount.
I have one deep carry clip between five Delica knives. I worked out the math at four I could buy a fifth knife if I just shared deep carry clips
I have three deep carry clips that cover probably 12 different knives.
Also over 50% of people don’t use or want deep carry clips
And could you imagine the headache for Spyderco if every knife had Two variations of normal and deep carry. Imagine the threads because someone got the wrong one they ordered accidentally Had to send it back
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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Re: PRICING
My issue with spydercos pricing is 50/50. Some models are worth the money and others are not imo....the ladybug and delica come to mind for ridiculous pricing.
- Surfingringo
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Re: PRICING
HI Slash, I feel you on the concern over inflation. I feel that on everything though, not just knives and certainly not just Spyderco. I too would love to be able to buy high end USA made knives for less money but I think the only way to do that would be to sacrifice quality or for a maker to offer knives at a price that didn’t allow them to stay in business. As it is, I feel like Spyderco offers a very fair value for their production knives in comparison with their competitors. I appreciate the constant experimentation and innovation they offer. I don’t really feel like I pay much of a premium for that but even if I did, I would be ok with that.Slash wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 7:09 amIS NOT in-line with inflation. Less the price of chicken or pork due to coronavirus issues
Haven't bought a spyderco in months
Sorry for rant and post, just had to let you know
I understand there're many hands in the cookie jar. But, unless something is done I won't be buying
For example $168 for siren? Like the design, just not paying that
Long time buyer, collector, user in case you're wondering
Regarding the Siren price, it seems to me to be right in line with other Golden made folders. The Siren falls right in between the PM2 and the Military in both size and price.
- VooDooChild
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Re: PRICING
I have still noticed that you get what you pay for. There is definitely a spectrum to that. There are some very good cheap products out there, and there are some not so great expensive products, but for the most part I have noticed quality and design fall in line with price.
Last year I got a usa made knife from one of the big compainies at a great price. I liked the design and was curious how they offered it at such a good price. Then I got it and realised it wasnt half the knife any of my seki made spydercos were. Didnt matter where it was made. Price determined the quality, and the design that I thought I liked turned out to not be as good as I thought. The operation of the knife was also not enjoyable.
We could talk about this with anything but power tools are a good example as well. A lot of big name brands sold out and started making stuff on the cheap. Thats great for someone who uses those tools a few times a year. Bit if you look at the people who use that stuff everyday, they pay a premium for the better product.
I like this story. A company was hiring welders for $25-$50 an hour. A man applied and they asked him to weld something to see what he knew. He did two welds one was bad and one was good. They asked him why he did two different welds and he replied one is what you get for $25 an hour, and the other is what you get for $50 an hour.
I guess my point is there is a difference between getting ripped off and then paying for a quality product.
I also surf by the way. Actually just got out of the water this morning. Had my DFLY salt 2 se on me in case anyone wanted to know. I used to wonder why the markup on surfboards was always so high, considering the cost of the materials in them is usually less than half of the finished product. Then I started trying to get into shaping, glassing, and making some of my own. I realised pretty quickly material cost are not the place where you determine a price point.
Different resturaunts probably arent paying too much of a difference for a lot of the basic food stuff they order. Still a big difference between a good resturaunt and one that is just ok.
Sorry for the rant.
Last year I got a usa made knife from one of the big compainies at a great price. I liked the design and was curious how they offered it at such a good price. Then I got it and realised it wasnt half the knife any of my seki made spydercos were. Didnt matter where it was made. Price determined the quality, and the design that I thought I liked turned out to not be as good as I thought. The operation of the knife was also not enjoyable.
We could talk about this with anything but power tools are a good example as well. A lot of big name brands sold out and started making stuff on the cheap. Thats great for someone who uses those tools a few times a year. Bit if you look at the people who use that stuff everyday, they pay a premium for the better product.
I like this story. A company was hiring welders for $25-$50 an hour. A man applied and they asked him to weld something to see what he knew. He did two welds one was bad and one was good. They asked him why he did two different welds and he replied one is what you get for $25 an hour, and the other is what you get for $50 an hour.
I guess my point is there is a difference between getting ripped off and then paying for a quality product.
I also surf by the way. Actually just got out of the water this morning. Had my DFLY salt 2 se on me in case anyone wanted to know. I used to wonder why the markup on surfboards was always so high, considering the cost of the materials in them is usually less than half of the finished product. Then I started trying to get into shaping, glassing, and making some of my own. I realised pretty quickly material cost are not the place where you determine a price point.
Different resturaunts probably arent paying too much of a difference for a lot of the basic food stuff they order. Still a big difference between a good resturaunt and one that is just ok.
Sorry for the rant.
"Rome's greatest contribution to mathematics was the killing of Archimedes."
Re: PRICING
I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
Re: PRICING
Or it would be forcing an unwanted change on the other consumers, who don't share your views.skx013k2 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 amI understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
- VooDooChild
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Re: PRICING
HA! I dont think spyderco is intentionally limiting their product.skx013k2 wrote:I understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
"Rome's greatest contribution to mathematics was the killing of Archimedes."
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Re: PRICING
I did not say they were "worse off", those are your words. I said they both feel they "left something on the table" meaning the seller wishes they made a bit more money & the buyer wishes they paid a bit less. You could say it was a fair deal.TomAiello wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pmIf that's the case then they're doing it wrong. If both sides feel they got the worse end of the transaction, then why the heck did the transaction happen at all? If they're both worse off, they never should have completed the sale.
In general, I buy things because I feel like I am better off with them than the money I spent. I'd rather have the Native LW Rex 45 than $112, for example. Likewise, Spyderco sells the knife because they feel that they would rather have the money they make from it (probably a lot less than the $112 retail price) than the knife sitting in their inventory.
Trading (and all purchases fall in this category) makes both parties _better off_ (not worse off) because otherwise they simply wouldn't do the deal. Anytime you purchase something you do so because you feel it makes you better off. And when you sell something, you do that because you think selling it will make you better off. In voluntary transaction (like buying a pocket knife), both sides are made better off.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
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Re: PRICING
I wish you ran Apple and Microsoft. They've been doing just that for decades.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
Re: PRICING
I think that's true for 99% of all transactions, regardless of what the product or service is.JRinFL wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 1:50 pmI did not say they were "worse off", those are your words. I said they both feel they "left something on the table" meaning the seller wishes they made a bit more money & the buyer wishes they paid a bit less. You could say it was a fair deal.TomAiello wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pmIf that's the case then they're doing it wrong. If both sides feel they got the worse end of the transaction, then why the heck did the transaction happen at all? If they're both worse off, they never should have completed the sale.
In general, I buy things because I feel like I am better off with them than the money I spent. I'd rather have the Native LW Rex 45 than $112, for example. Likewise, Spyderco sells the knife because they feel that they would rather have the money they make from it (probably a lot less than the $112 retail price) than the knife sitting in their inventory.
Trading (and all purchases fall in this category) makes both parties _better off_ (not worse off) because otherwise they simply wouldn't do the deal. Anytime you purchase something you do so because you feel it makes you better off. And when you sell something, you do that because you think selling it will make you better off. In voluntary transaction (like buying a pocket knife), both sides are made better off.
Re: PRICING
All of this. I've been a guitarist for almost 12 years, and have looked into all of the process of guitar making out of pure curiosity, and have visited a local custom shop for a quote. Half of it was material and the other half was labor. It only gets more complicated and expenses keep piling on when your business expands.VooDooChild wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 8:03 amI have still noticed that you get what you pay for. There is definitely a spectrum to that. There are some very good cheap products out there, and there are some not so great expensive products, but for the most part I have noticed quality and design fall in line with price.
Last year I got a usa made knife from one of the big compainies at a great price. I liked the design and was curious how they offered it at such a good price. Then I got it and realised it wasnt half the knife any of my seki made spydercos were. Didnt matter where it was made. Price determined the quality, and the design that I thought I liked turned out to not be as good as I thought. The operation of the knife was also not enjoyable.
We could talk about this with anything but power tools are a good example as well. A lot of big name brands sold out and started making stuff on the cheap. Thats great for someone who uses those tools a few times a year. Bit if you look at the people who use that stuff everyday, they pay a premium for the better product.
I like this story. A company was hiring welders for $25-$50 an hour. A man applied and they asked him to weld something to see what he knew. He did two welds one was bad and one was good. They asked him why he did two different welds and he replied one is what you get for $25 an hour, and the other is what you get for $50 an hour.
I guess my point is there is a difference between getting ripped off and then paying for a quality product.
I also surf by the way. Actually just got out of the water this morning. Had my DFLY salt 2 se on me in case anyone wanted to know. I used to wonder why the markup on surfboards was always so high, considering the cost of the materials in them is usually less than half of the finished product. Then I started trying to get into shaping, glassing, and making some of my own. I realised pretty quickly material cost are not the place where you determine a price point.
Different resturaunts probably arent paying too much of a difference for a lot of the basic food stuff they order. Still a big difference between a good resturaunt and one that is just ok.
Sorry for the rant.
Producing from a factory doesn't mean you can simp on manual labour as CNC products still need extensive human intervention out of the machine.
Even in brands having extensive line-ups and models, the cost for limited runs akin to sprints is justified by the extra attention going into it, though I'd argue that signature models can get out of hand (looking at you Jackskon).
On topic : I find Spyderco's pricing for Golden models reasonable in 90% of the cases considering the overall performance, ergonomics, ease of use and pleasure derived from the product. Though a family business (see my thread on factory choice and Sal's answers) it is not a small business and there are loads of things to consider in the final price of a knife : marketing, product development (Eric's comment on the Shaman being the result of 2? 4? years of design and testing), labour, tariffs, dealer cuts etc.
U.S. labour is more expensive than Chinese (though I don't see it lasting another ten years), Q.C. is pretty much spot on, and the quality is there in the end.
Yes, there are knives I find too expensive for what they offer (as in camo G10 and DLC being more expensive among other things) but I don't think a 'base' Golden Spyderco is overpriced, considering what some others companies offer at the same price point.
European amateur knife enthusiast
Hikes and outdoors galore
Motorcycle enthusiast
In the knoife box : M4 Millie, Spyderco Perrin Street Bowie, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : CE/SE/Rex45/MagnaCut Millie, K2, Slysz Bowie, linerlock Sage
Hikes and outdoors galore
Motorcycle enthusiast
In the knoife box : M4 Millie, Spyderco Perrin Street Bowie, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : CE/SE/Rex45/MagnaCut Millie, K2, Slysz Bowie, linerlock Sage
- MichaelScott
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Re: PRICING
There is so much value added to every Spyderco knife that often I think they are under priced
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Re: PRICING
Yes! My point is that the buyer and seller relationship is adversarial to some greater or lesser degree, always.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
Re: PRICING
It is. This point is getting lost in the noise it seems.
Ultimately, the consumers decide the value of goods or services with their purchases, which makes this thread sort of pointless. If it's not a good value, complaints wont change it. Sales will.
We are several pages in, with no more understanding than on the first page.
I don't think a new car should cost $20k+, but complaints don't change the price of cars. The market does. If enough people buy used cars, automakers will reassess the market, and find that lower cost is the only option for them. This is the same for everything in a free market.
I'm starting to wonder if we have been spoiled. Maybe we have been given too much say. Spyderco listens to the consumers, and bends over backwards to offer new models, combinations, etc. Maybe there's too much of a good thing, and maybe we feel entitled now. I like choices, but I'm not liking the recent increase in hostility. The world is changing and most of us will suffer with it, but I don't think this is the place to direct our frustrations.
Sorry for the rant.
Re: PRICING
Albatross wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 1:31 pmOr it would be forcing an unwanted change on the other consumers, who don't share your views.skx013k2 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 amI understand Spyderco position, but that doesn’t change the fact that it increases the knife cost by 20% to me as a consumer.sal wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:22 pmHi Skx013K,
Welcome to our forum.
Thanx for the suggestions, but perhaps I can offer another point of view. These aftermarket makers developed, built and promoted a product as an accessory to our knives. We are honored that they would extend their time and effort to create something that the customer wanted and they delivered it. Would you think it fair for us to steal their market by undercutting them?
sal
You are supporting the aftermarket vendors by intentionally limiting your product and passing the cost on to the consumer.
Sorry, my comment came off more negatively than intended. I’m a big fan of Spyderco. Big fan of Sal. Big fan of them looking out for the aftermarket companies. I’ll continue to consider Sypdero every time I look to purchase a top quality knife.
Just doesn't change the fact that it adds $25 to some of their knife prices and that often (not always) makes them feel overpriced for me. Still great product - but an expensive one.