PRICING

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
BornIn1500
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Re: PRICING

Postby BornIn1500 » Mon May 18, 2020 3:40 am

SubMicron wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:09 pm
My most recent Spyderco purchase was a Native 5 LW in REX-45 and I paid $112 at an online authorized dealer.

Show me a knife for a lower price that gives me similar or better cutting power in terms of edge retention and strength while also being safe to reliably open and close with one hand under stress.

But you're cherry-picking. Kershaw has the Link (US made) in 20CV for $80. Show me a knife for lower price that has similar or better cutting power, as well as similar blade length. We can cherry pick and draw arbitrary lines all day. I think my point here is that you can't use those cherries to blindly justify all products and prices across the board for any brand. Would an average person think it was a great value to buy a $211 Lil Temp in g10 and S30V simply because the brand also sells a $112 Native in Rex45, which they'll never want or need?

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Mon May 18, 2020 3:54 am

BornIn1500 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:40 am
SubMicron wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:09 pm
My most recent Spyderco purchase was a Native 5 LW in REX-45 and I paid $112 at an online authorized dealer.

Show me a knife for a lower price that gives me similar or better cutting power in terms of edge retention and strength while also being safe to reliably open and close with one hand under stress.

But you're cherry-picking. Kershaw has the Link (US made) in 20CV for $80. Show me a knife for lower price that has similar or better cutting power, as well as similar blade length. We can cherry pick and draw arbitrary lines all day. I think my point here is that you can't use those cherries to blindly justify all products and prices across the board for any brand.
That's not the whole picture though. Materials and cost are only 2 of 3 important parts to the equation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... U/htmlview#

The spreadsheet from Outpost 76, shows HRC and cut test data. Most of those cheaper knives, from almost any brand, underperform. When M390 or 20CV is bested by VG10, is it really a deal? It might be a preference, and might be a good deal for materials, but unless you're collecting, performance should be important.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Mon May 18, 2020 4:08 am

I would imagine that milling aluminum scales is cheaper than doing steel liners and G10/FRN/CF scales.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

BornIn1500
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Re: PRICING

Postby BornIn1500 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:32 am

Albatross wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:08 am
I would imagine that milling aluminum scales is cheaper than doing steel liners and G10/FRN/CF scales.
They also have steel liners. I actually thought the opposite. Milling aluminum must be considerably more expensive than FRN, seeing as how the FRN Link is about $10 cheaper than the aluminum Link. It's a perfect comparison. I was thinking it's probably equal to, or more expensive than g10 since it's milled on both sides (torsion bar cutout and chamfer) compared to slab g10 only milled on the liner side.
Last edited by BornIn1500 on Mon May 18, 2020 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

ugaarguy
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Re: PRICING

Postby ugaarguy » Mon May 18, 2020 4:39 am

rabbitanarchy14 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:25 pm
1 i have been saying that spyderco has lost their value since map was introduced and feel they inflated their prices to be close to benchmade. no i do not compare spyderco to a chinese company but i did always compare them to benchmade. they used to be a better value than benchmade and now they are about the same.

2yes the different costs between models with the same steel are the indicators that something is inflated just because, no reason. the watu is a bad value at 200 when i bought a 20cv manix for 140. the siren is the same way, you can get a native in lc200n for 130$ but a siren at 170$ no. the delica was value at 70$ not 90$.

3i agree that marking them up more every year is a shady thing to do when we dont get paid more.

4anymore spyderco is just a symbol like benchmade is, over priced for allot of the knives. sprints are the only place there is value and even then you have to work hard to get it soon enough the ******* **** scalpers get it and spyderco just does nothing. sprints should be sold thru the forums first, you know the place where we ask for the steels or models. we should have first access to them thru the forums then the public can have whats left.

now also please dont get me wrong in thinking i do not like spyderco, i love spyderco and their amazing quality and how they stand by their products and bring to market things we do ask for. no other company does that.
1. Sal has said several times that MAP was put in place so that local dealers wouldn't get out run out of the market by high volume, low margin online mass retailers.

2. An S30V Native is $105 for the FRN version, and $161 for the G10 Version. The Siren uses a steel a less common steel, and they have to pay to Lance for the design on top of that since it's a collab.

3. Spyderco isn't your employer. They have no control over how much you make, or how often you get raises. But, see #1 above, they are trying to keep small businesses profitable and in business.

4. Sal recently said that he and Eric have recognized that demand has grown to the point that it's far outstripping the supply of the standard number of pieces for each sprint, so they are going to greatly increase the number of pieces in each sprint going forward. They even loopholed their own rules to make what's essentially a 2nd (and much larger) run of the CruCarta Shaman to meet demand for that particular model.

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Albatross
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Re: PRICING

Postby Albatross » Mon May 18, 2020 4:52 am

BornIn1500 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:32 am
Albatross wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:08 am
I would imagine that milling aluminum scales is cheaper than doing steel liners and G10/FRN/CF scales.
They also have steel liners. I actually thought the opposite. Milling aluminum must be considerably more expensive than FRN, seeing as how the FRN Link is about $10 cheaper than the aluminum Link. It's a perfect comparison. I was thinking it's probably equal to, or more expensive than g10 since it's milled on both sides (torsion bar cutout and chamfer) compared to slab g10 only milled on the liner side.
I see. Not sure why I thought they were linerless. :confused:

I disagree still, that it's a perfect comparison. What grade steel does Kershaw use on their liners? Do any models share the same amount of liner milling as many Spydercos?

I've had a few speedsafe knives and wasn't happy with them. Their action wasn't great, but is masked by the assisted opening. More to fail IMO. I de-assisted a couple and wasn't happy with the unrefined feel. I'm not their target market I suppose.

Again, preferences and all.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: PRICING

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon May 18, 2020 6:13 am

I assume some of those Kershaws are loss leaders. I assume that they are losing money on them to gain market share. I don’t think Spyderco plays pricing games like that. Just speculation though.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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SubMicron
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Re: PRICING

Postby SubMicron » Mon May 18, 2020 6:37 am

BornIn1500 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:40 am

But you're cherry-picking. Kershaw has the Link (US made) in 20CV for $80. Show me a knife for lower price that has similar or better cutting power, as well as similar blade length. We can cherry pick and draw arbitrary lines all day. I think my point here is that you can't use those cherries to blindly justify all products and prices across the board for any brand. Would an average person think it was a great value to buy a $211 Lil Temp in g10 and S30V simply because the brand also sells a $112 Native in Rex45, which they'll never want or need?
It's not cherry picking or drawing arbitrary lines. 20CV & M390 are no where close to being in the same league as REX-45. You'd have to go up to S90V or S110V for similar wear resistance, but even both of those steels are soft and lack edge stability compared with REX-45.

I own a Kershaw Dividend M390, Knockout M390, and Bareknuckle in 20CV. I also own a Para 3 in REX-45 and I can tell you that my Para 3 out cuts those three Kershaws combined simply because of the edge stability of REX-45.

The Link also is an assisted knife which means its definitely not a safe one-handed knife.

That Lil Temperance you mentioned can be had for $129 or less and it has a compression lock which has proven to be the superior mechanism for safety, longevity, and ease of use. This would be a knife where the purchaser is drawn to the specifics of the knife platform. In real world use, there generally isnt a tremendous difference between S30V and 20CV.

If were going to draw comparisons with Kershaw, you should be including their other brand ZT. Go look at those prices and then let us know what you think.

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TkoK83Spy
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Re: PRICING

Postby TkoK83Spy » Mon May 18, 2020 6:49 am

jdw wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am
Seki has lost its value to me as a consumer but the value of quality received out of Golden has only improved. For me, the REX Manix Sprint is one of the highest quality knives that I have ever received relative to the cost.
I agree with all of this. Golden has been incredible! Of my 17 Spyderco's I believe 14 are Golden models. Manix is the best value model out there imo. G10, skeletonized liners and whatever fancy steel is on the exclusive/sprint is usually under $145...the same configuration in other models, even other Golden models are usually $160+ (which normally doesn't shy me away from those either though)
20 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF
1 - Civivi Elementum

-Rick

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ChrisinHove
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Re: PRICING

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon May 18, 2020 8:08 am

I get more cross about my income than about prices of discretionary purchases.

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Re: PRICING

Postby TomAiello » Mon May 18, 2020 8:14 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:33 am
The prices of most things are outpacing inflation in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that the average overall increase in prices is the _definition_ of inflation.

I've also noticed an increase in Spyderco prices that is faster than the general rate of inflation. Fortunately, this is a first world problem. None of us needs a $100 pocket knife (or even a $25 pocket knife) to feed our children. If we don't like the prices, we don't buy. That's how this all works.

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Sharp Guy
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Re: PRICING

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon May 18, 2020 8:17 am

A lot of you get hung up on materials. Seems like the value of design gets lost in the discussion. IMO, Spyderco's designs and features are worth paying a premium for.

I'm sure Spyderco appreciates feedback (good or bad) but, the bottom line is, a business has the right to charge what they need to keep the company going. Just like we have the right to buy something or not. Sal has done his best to be transparent here about their pricing structure. He's said they work on a relatively fixed pricing structure and they do their best to be fair to the ELU's. I've read that more than once and I have no reason not to trust what he's said. Yes, they're pricey knives but so are a lot of other brands that compete with them. If it gets to the point where I can no longer afford to buy something I'll consider something less expensive or I'll go without. No sense losing sleep over it.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: PRICING

Postby TomAiello » Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 am

Bornin1500 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:09 pm
Kershaw has the Link (US made) in 20CV for $80. Show me a knife for lower price that has similar or better cutting power, as well as similar blade length. We can cherry pick and draw arbitrary lines all day. I think my point here is that you can't use those cherries to blindly justify all products and prices across the board for any brand. Would an average person think it was a great value to buy a $211 Lil Temp in g10 and S30V simply because the brand also sells a $112 Native in Rex45, which they'll never want or need?
I've actually carried that Link and that Native LW (separately) in the past two weeks. Personally, I prefer the native by a wide margin. A better comparison would be the Kershaw Leek, which is probably the best value for cutting power in a US made folding knife today. it's a much harder call for me to pick a favorite between the Leek and the Native LW, but I give the value nod to the Leek in CPM 154 (I think that one cost me about 80 bucks) by a hair.

That's the thing though. Other people may disagree with me, and they can spend their dollars on whatever they prefer. We all cherry pick all day long, every day, when we decide what we think the best value for our money is (and spend it on those things). I happen to think that $2500 for a 2004 Honda Odyssey off Craigs List is a great value for a vehicle--but many people think I'm crazy and prefer to buy newer cars. That's not a knock on me or them--we just have different preferences and spend our money differently. That's the beauty of a diverse economy--more choices for everyone means more likelihood that everyone finds something that works for them.

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: PRICING

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon May 18, 2020 8:51 am

TomAiello wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:14 am
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:33 am
The prices of most things are outpacing inflation in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that the average overall increase in prices is the _definition_ of inflation.

I've also noticed an increase in Spyderco prices that is faster than the general rate of inflation. Fortunately, this is a first world problem. None of us needs a $100 pocket knife (or even a $25 pocket knife) to feed our children. If we don't like the prices, we don't buy. That's how this all works.
Inflation by definition is a decrease in the value of money. Increased prices are a result of inflation but other things can also cause price increases so they are not exactly the same. Supply and demand of raw materials is one example of a factor that can effect price as well. Average overall price increases (the consumer price index) are the metric used to measure inflation though so we often conflate them as synonymous.

The theory is basically supply and demand. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply. The more money they print, the less it is worth. They have built a certain amount of inflation into the economy because they cannot balance the federal budget without printing more money. That makes all this Covid assistance scary. They are mostly just printing more money and handing it out which will cause increased inflation.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Pancake
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Re: PRICING

Postby Pancake » Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 am

Did you know that I bought Manix 2 REX45 G10 for 175 €?
Now you know it. I think that was fair price.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Waterway

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standy99
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Re: PRICING

Postby standy99 » Mon May 18, 2020 9:39 am

Little bit older view on pricing.

1) Spyderco makes a knife from $50 to $500 and they all cut stuff

2) This means there is a knife for every budget

3) if your budget is $150 and you want a $200 knife !?

4) just about to turn 50 and everything goes up year after year after year. YEP EVERYTHING Gee I remember a can of Coke and a packet of crisps was less than a quarter. And the dearest TV in the shop was $500

5) anything in the knife world over $100 is really a luxury item

6) Finally if you have more than 2 knives that would last you a lifetime really, buying more it’s just consumerism for want not need


20+ years as a butcher and a $30 boning knife could do just about anything a Spyderco can. But I’m happy to buy and carry Spyderco’s at 10x the cost because that’s my choice and the brand I like.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Evil D
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Re: PRICING

Postby Evil D » Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 am

I think I'd pay a little extra if it somehow magically stopped this topic from coming up every few months.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: PRICING

Postby JohnDoe99 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:25 am

sal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:59 pm
Hi JonDoe,

Welcome to our forum.

About 10% of our knives are made in China, by choice.

sal
Thank you for the welcome.

Indeed the China Spyderco and Byrd knives are in the minority of offerings, but the real number of course is their share of overall sales.

By the way, I'm not trying to brag, but I just bought a like new native g10 s110v native from a guy on ebay for $125 lol. Free shipping, no taxes. I love ebay!

Sumdumguy
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Re: PRICING

Postby Sumdumguy » Mon May 18, 2020 10:29 am

I'm with David.

So, how bout them sports teams?

acer
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Re: PRICING

Postby acer » Mon May 18, 2020 10:39 am

Evil D 👍 well said. . You pays your money you takes your choice . As long as the product does not price itself out of the marked . Done.


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