Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Snacktime
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:05 am

Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Snacktime » Fri May 15, 2020 6:42 pm

My last two users from Golden Colorado have been chipping. They have been holding an awesome edge but noticeable chips with hard use. One was rex 45 other is dealer exclusive s30vn. Getting a feeling they are over hardened. I have had no issues with chipping on Taichung spydercos or older Golden Knifes. Just feel like a hard use steel shouldn’t be brittle, not had this issue with any other knives spyderco or other make. Usually it’s knives going dull way to quick.

Anyone else notice an issue?

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 4428
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby The Meat man » Fri May 15, 2020 7:04 pm

I have found that factory fresh edges are often more prone to chipping than after they've been sharpened a few times. It's to do with the way they sharpen knives at the factory - using a high speed belt sander or whatever - which can cause the edge to become slightly brittle.

A few full sharpenings usually clears it up.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

prndltech
Member
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby prndltech » Fri May 15, 2020 8:12 pm

Yup. What Connor said seems to be my experience as well. I usually sharpen a knife as soon as I pull it out of the box, that’s 1. Use it, sharpen it again (not just touch up), and then do that one more time before passing judgment. If you’ve reprofiled it once and sharpened it 2 more times, not just light touch up passes and it still chips then you can pass judgment.
- Shannon

Snacktime
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Snacktime » Fri May 15, 2020 8:52 pm

Heard that but I am past believing... I would say I am 1/16 to 1/8 in Metal removal on both. Couple of months of abuse and still edge is flaking.

prndltech
Member
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby prndltech » Fri May 15, 2020 9:14 pm

Snacktime wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:52 pm
Heard that but I am past believing... I would say I am 1/16 to 1/8 in Metal removal on both. Couple of months of abuse and still edge is flaking.
Well, what’s your definition of “abuse” and “hard use”? Better yet... what do you use a pocket knife for? That’s the real question.
- Shannon

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 4428
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby The Meat man » Fri May 15, 2020 9:42 pm

prndltech wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:14 pm
Snacktime wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:52 pm
Heard that but I am past believing... I would say I am 1/16 to 1/8 in Metal removal on both. Couple of months of abuse and still edge is flaking.
Well, what’s your definition of “abuse” and “hard use”? Better yet... what do you use a pocket knife for? That’s the real question.
Yep, that's the next thing. Sounds like the factory edge isn't the issue.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

Snacktime
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Snacktime » Fri May 15, 2020 10:12 pm

No issues with same brand, same steel, just not recent purchase. Trust me I love spyderco, but I am on the fence after I just spent an hour to get a chip out.

User avatar
araneae
Member
Posts: 5070
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: A lil more south of the Erie shore, Ohio

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby araneae » Fri May 15, 2020 10:28 pm

Again, what's your use like? Also, s30vn? I think you've done a mashup of S30v and s35vn.

Spyderco tends to be one of the best in the game for heat treating and I haven't seen any trend of chipping reports lately.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got: SpyOpera, Siren

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

prndltech
Member
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby prndltech » Fri May 15, 2020 11:47 pm

I fully expect damage no matter what the steel is for what I do with mine... it’s not uncommon for me to do things I shouldn’t, like slip and smack concrete or a steel work table with the edge. I also strip wire, scrape stuff and other things one isn’t “supposed” to do with a Pocket knife. Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s vg10 or m390 or anything in between for me, at the end of a week it’s not sharp by our standards. Some are worse than others but I’ve come to realize that if I use mine as a tool for me, to make money at work, it doesn’t just slice soft material and use in that manner inherently causes rolls and chips no matter what the blade steel is.

That’s why I’m curious what your use is, and what your expectations are... everyone’s work environment is different and everyone definitions of “abuse” and “hard use” are different.
- Shannon

koenigsegg
Member
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby koenigsegg » Sat May 16, 2020 12:06 am

I'm sure some of you have seen how they sharpen now but op is newer so maybe hasn't seen it, pretty neat
https://youtu.be/_Du7AFPKIuw?t=405

I wish I had a hardness tester I'd be interested to check that blade especially on the bevel
S30V, VG10, M4, XHP, BD1, Maxamet, 204P, H1, K390, A11, Rex45, LC200N, M390, 20CV, BD1N, S45VN

User avatar
SubMicron
Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:55 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby SubMicron » Sat May 16, 2020 9:55 am

I also purchased their S35VN in a dealer/distributor exclusive PM2 as well as REX-45 in a Para3

The "hard use" that I've done with them, that's relevant to this conversation, would include abuse where I specifically was trying to cause each to chip or deform. Primarily this was done by hitting staples in cardboard, as hard as possible, repeatedly.

Neither S35VN or REX-45 chipped.

The REX-45, because of how hard it is and how strong it is at the apex, took extremely minimal damage. I hit very large staples very hard and was surprised at how minimal the deformation was.

REX-45 is extremely strong at the apex, one of the strongest in fact, stronger even than M4, but just at the apex. M4 I believe is "stronger" overall and I assume would withstand a significant impact better, especially against a hard acute angle such as a cement edge or rock.

The S35VN, as is typical with its mushy nature, simply rolled. The S35VN did exactly what its supposed to do. I tested this with smaller staples and less intensity than the REX-45.

To me as a sharpener, a chip and a roll are about the same thing because either are just damage to the edge that has to be removed... so I care how much damage.

Theres a group of guys, each with youtube channels, who have gotten tons of knives Rockwell tested and they also do controlled edge retention tests. None of their tests indicate any kind of problem with either of these two steels. The only prevailing complaint from those guys is that they want Spyderco to run them harder, and not softer.

There's something else at play here with your two knives. I'd bet money that the heat treat and everything is just fine.

Please provide more info about how they've been used and sharpened.

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Albatross » Sat May 16, 2020 9:59 am

Might be worth checking for a wire edge. To me, it sounds like the apex possibly hasn't been fully cleaned up.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
SubMicron
Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:55 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby SubMicron » Sat May 16, 2020 10:01 am

Albatross wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:59 am
Might be worth checking for a wire edge. To me, it sounds like the apex possibly hasn't been fully cleaned up.
I agree.

I've had significant edge stability issues before due to a wire edge.

User avatar
The Mastiff
Member
Posts: 5460
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
Location: raleigh nc

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby The Mastiff » Sat May 16, 2020 10:52 am

See above.

Wire edge is always going to be the first thing I look for when having edge issues . Problem solving 101 is to look for the easiest and most obvious and probable cause of whatever issue I might have. Wire edges are by far the most common source of edge issues.

Anything is possible but the Golden knives are typically going to have the best performing and most exacting heat treat available on production knives I'm aware of. The consistency amazes me sometimes.

Snacktime
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Snacktime » Sat May 16, 2020 10:57 am

Lots of scraping lately, stripping romex and kitchen duty cutting on ceramic plates.

I sharpen on 300, step to 600 and then 1000. Stromp a couple times to finish/clean up.

Only two of my knives are chipping, I constantly change what I carry. I have 5-6 knives I rotate through and carry at work. Going back to my hole and going to pull another nib rex45 out of the box, take factory edge off and test this week.

User avatar
SubMicron
Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:55 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby SubMicron » Sat May 16, 2020 11:38 am

What kind of abrasives are you using for sharpening and stropping?

Also, in the 5-6 knives that you use for these purposes, what kind of steel do each of them have?

AwayFromMySpydieHole
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Sat May 16, 2020 4:41 pm

I must be in the minority. I’d rather have a hard blade that holds an edge for a long time (that also chips a little on some stuff) rather than a soft blade that doesn’t hold an edge well.

That soft blade is also going to roll on the same stuff that chips the hard blade. And rolls are damage just like chips. It either gets sharpened out or it doesn’t. It’s all damage that has to be corrected.

Personally I’ve never understood the idea that you want the knife to roll vs chip. I’ve made my own knives and ran them at varying hardness. They were all s90v and some ran at 59-60 and some ran at 62-63. I ground them all to just under 10thou and tested them for strength. I slammed them edge first into a 16 penny nail. Pressed the edge against the corner of an anvil, etc. The softer blades took just about the same amount of damage as the harder blades. The harder blades did chip some, but it wasn’t catastrophic. In order to repair them I’d have to sharpen off basically the exact same amount of steel. So what’s the point of wanting a roll vs a chip?


I take performance and chipping over soft and rolling any day. My opinion which I’m sure many will disagree with. Anyway, to the OP, it’s possible that your uses are just going to damage the knife. Maybe the blades are too hard? I doubt it, but maybe. Most of the Rex45 blades have been tested at 65-67hrc. So it’s natural that they might be prone to chipping.

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Albatross » Sat May 16, 2020 5:00 pm

AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:41 pm
I must be in the minority. I’d rather have a hard blade that holds an edge for a long time (that also chips a little on some stuff) rather than a soft blade that doesn’t hold an edge well.

That soft blade is also going to roll on the same stuff that chips the hard blade. And rolls are damage just like chips. It either gets sharpened out or it doesn’t. It’s all damage that has to be corrected.

Personally I’ve never understood the idea that you want the knife to roll vs chip. I’ve made my own knives and ran them at varying hardness. They were all s90v and some ran at 59-60 and some ran at 62-63. I ground them all to just under 10thou and tested them for strength. I slammed them edge first into a 16 penny nail. Pressed the edge against the corner of an anvil, etc. The softer blades took just about the same amount of damage as the harder blades. The harder blades did chip some, but it wasn’t catastrophic. In order to repair them I’d have to sharpen off basically the exact same amount of steel. So what’s the point of wanting a roll vs a chip?


I take performance and chipping over soft and rolling any day. My opinion which I’m sure many will disagree with. Anyway, to the OP, it’s possible that your uses are just going to damage the knife. Maybe the blades are too hard? I doubt it, but maybe. Most of the Rex45 blades have been tested at 65-67hrc. So it’s natural that they might be prone to chipping.
Long-term, I don't see a difference either. You will either have a chip or some fatigued steel. If you sharpen rolls out, it's no different than sharpening chips out. Short-term, the benefit of being able to strop minor rolls out, and continue working, has it's appeal for some. The Rex 45 I have doesn't chip or roll easily, which is one of the reasons why I love that steel. The edge strength is very good.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
curlyhairedboy
Member
Posts: 2263
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:01 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby curlyhairedboy » Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm

Re: chips VS rolls

An argument could be made from a durability perspective that deformation is preferable to crack formation and potential propagation.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 22327
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Golden Colorado Heat Treat

Postby Evil D » Sat May 16, 2020 7:06 pm

Maybe I just don't believe in myself well enough, but there has never been a point in all my knife using life where I've thought to blame edge damage on heat treat instead of sharpening mistakes and/or maybe just using the wrong steel or tool for the job. It just makes more sense that I did something wrong than to blame production. This isn't just a Spyderco issue, it's every knife I own. Which is more likely to screw up, me or a knife company who's been making knives since before I was born (in most cases)? Professional quality control production vs a hobbyist? Call me a cynic but I'd have to see hardness testing on the knife in question to believe it. There are far more inconsistencies in a person's sharpening ability than there are in production.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AHarbuck, M Sea, Majestic-12 [Bot], ramasipsc, Sumdumguy and 39 guests