Sharpening a Knife

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Albatross
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#101

Post by Albatross »

JohnDoe99 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Well I thought I had S110V figured out, but I was wrong. This is an extremely frustrating steel. Low sharpness and poor edge retention all around, dmt and ceramic. I have tried the burr method on both abrasives, and I hit the apex. Then, I back off the pressure to almost no pressure and do alternating passes to minimize the burr, and then do slightly elevated passes to remove it. There does not appear at this point to be a burr under the microscope, at least nowhere even close to what it was when I looked at the edge after having deliberately raised a burr. If I look directly at the apex under 120x magnification, I can see some light reflecting off the apex. I know that doing the light test with the naked eye is useful for revealing obvious damage to the edge. If it is still reflecting light at 120x, does that mean it is not yet fully apexed? How could that be after I already raised a burr on each side and cut it off?

At this point the knife shaves hair well, I am actually running out of hair on my arms and thighs from trying to get this s110v to whittle hair because of all the resharpening process of elimination tests I am doing. So, I then slice up 1 large mailing envelope, since that is what I have lying around, and then cut twice directly into some treated lumber. The blade has now lost a noticeable amount of its shaving ability, shaving requires some degree of pressure, and if I look at the edge under magnification, I can see what looks like chips on the apex larger than the abrasive's scratch marks. This is happening every time, regardless of what I do. I honestly have no idea what is going on.



If you're getting micro chips, poor edge retention, and light reflecting off the apex, you haven't fully cleaned up the edge. When you sharpen, check the apex every so often, and put it under the microscope after each stone, to see what's going on. You shouldn't see light reflecting after your first stone, let alone a finishing stone. If it's reflecting light after your first stone, keep at it, minding angles and pressure, until you have a crisp edge. S110V has a reputation for having a stubborn, hard to spot burr. I'm sure opinions will vary, but you're certainly not the first to struggle with it.

You might want to try diamond sharpening only, no ceramics. Lower grit works better for high carbide steels, giving you maximum edge retention. S110V isn't a great steel for trying to whittle hair. It can be done, but you're making a compromise by sharpening to that level. Cedric and Ada (Pete) on YouTube, did some testing on this idea, and found a dramatic drop in edge retention, when sharpening carbide-heavy steels to a high grit. 400-600 grit is a nice sweet spot.

Approximately how many strokes are you using to de-burr? What is your finishing stone? Is this freehand or using a fixed angle sharpener?
JohnDoe99
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#102

Post by JohnDoe99 »

Albatross wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:27 pm
JohnDoe99 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Well I thought I had S110V figured out, but I was wrong. This is an extremely frustrating steel. Low sharpness and poor edge retention all around, dmt and ceramic. I have tried the burr method on both abrasives, and I hit the apex. Then, I back off the pressure to almost no pressure and do alternating passes to minimize the burr, and then do slightly elevated passes to remove it. There does not appear at this point to be a burr under the microscope, at least nowhere even close to what it was when I looked at the edge after having deliberately raised a burr. If I look directly at the apex under 120x magnification, I can see some light reflecting off the apex. I know that doing the light test with the naked eye is useful for revealing obvious damage to the edge. If it is still reflecting light at 120x, does that mean it is not yet fully apexed? How could that be after I already raised a burr on each side and cut it off?

At this point the knife shaves hair well, I am actually running out of hair on my arms and thighs from trying to get this s110v to whittle hair because of all the resharpening process of elimination tests I am doing. So, I then slice up 1 large mailing envelope, since that is what I have lying around, and then cut twice directly into some treated lumber. The blade has now lost a noticeable amount of its shaving ability, shaving requires some degree of pressure, and if I look at the edge under magnification, I can see what looks like chips on the apex larger than the abrasive's scratch marks. This is happening every time, regardless of what I do. I honestly have no idea what is going on.



If you're getting micro chips, poor edge retention, and light reflecting off the apex, you haven't fully cleaned up the edge. When you sharpen, check the apex every so often, and put it under the microscope after each stone, to see what's going on. You shouldn't see light reflecting after your first stone, let alone a finishing stone. If it's reflecting light after your first stone, keep at it, minding angles and pressure, until you have a crisp edge. S110V has a reputation for having a stubborn, hard to spot burr. I'm sure opinions will vary, but you're certainly not the first to struggle with it.

You might want to try diamond sharpening only, no ceramics. Lower grit works better for high carbide steels, giving you maximum edge retention. S110V isn't a great steel for trying to whittle hair. It can be done, but you're making a compromise by sharpening to that level. Cedric and Ada (Pete) on YouTube, did some testing on this idea, and found a dramatic drop in edge retention, when sharpening carbide-heavy steels to a high grit. 400-600 grit is a nice sweet spot.

Approximately how many strokes are you using to de-burr? What is your finishing stone? Is this freehand or using a fixed angle sharpener?
Edit: I am doing this all freehand. To de-burr, I did about 20 strokes per side with a medium ceramic, and then did about 10 with a fine ceramic. For the diamonds, I did the same on a DMT fine, 20 per side, and then 10 per side with a DMT extra-fine after creating the burr with a DMT coarse plate. No stropping. Finishing abrasive for ceramic is the fine (white) ceramic, and for the diamond it is the extra-fine DMT.

I will continue per your advice. Thanks. I do have to say though that this is making me nostalgic for my old 154cm manix.
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Albatross
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#103

Post by Albatross »

JohnDoe99 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:47 pm

Edit: I am doing this all freehand. To de-burr, I did about 20 strokes per side with a medium ceramic, and then did about 10 with a fine ceramic. For the diamonds, I did the same on a DMT fine, 20 per side, and then 10 per side with a DMT extra-fine after creating the burr with a DMT coarse plate. No stropping. Finishing abrasive for ceramic is the fine (white) ceramic, and for the diamond it is the extra-fine DMT.

I will continue per your advice. Thanks. I do have to say though that this is making me nostalgic for my old 154cm manix.
Hopefully you find some success. I forgot to add before: if you have any bottles of wine, the corks work well for removing burrs. Drag the edge along a cork or piece of clean, soft wood, to help remove a burr. You really don't need to apply much pressure at all. Make sure you don't drag the edge over the same spot twice, to avoid damaging the edge on any bits of the burr that may have broken off.
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FeistyKat
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#104

Post by FeistyKat »

Albatross wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 7:47 pm
if you have any bottles of wine, the corks work well for removing burrs.

Will one of those new fangled artificial corks work, or does it have to be real cork?
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Albatross
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#105

Post by Albatross »

FeistyKat wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 8:52 pm
Albatross wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 7:47 pm
if you have any bottles of wine, the corks work well for removing burrs.

Will one of those new fangled artificial corks work, or does it have to be real cork?
I'm not sure if a synthetic cork would work or not. My guess is no, it won't.
JohnDoe99
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#106

Post by JohnDoe99 »

I had another go at the leather but this time filled with some .5 micron dmt paste. The result was worse than even the green wooodstock compound. Basically it just cut my edge off faster, which makes sense considering that this is diamond. I simply cannot find the correct angle to strop on leather with compound without cutting the edge off. I then threw that leather away into the garbage can (with a lot of force), put the ruined S110V in the safe for this weekend, and used naked leather on a REX 45 native. I got a pretty nice edge with no compound.

I know I am a mediocre sharpener, but if you are a beginning or fellow mediocre sharpener, you probably want to strop on leather using no compound.
The Meat man
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Re: Sharpening a Knife

#107

Post by The Meat man »

JohnDoe99 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:06 pm
I had another go at the leather but this time filled with some .5 micron dmt paste. The result was worse than even the green wooodstock compound. Basically it just cut my edge off faster, which makes sense considering that this is diamond. I simply cannot find the correct angle to strop on leather with compound without cutting the edge off...
You should be stropping at the same angle you sharpen with stones. Use a very light touch and avoid "pressing" the edge into the leather.

Edit to add: with CPM S110V you picked probably the most difficult Spyderco steel to try to get hair whittling sharp. I've found that Maxamet is easier to achieve hair-whittling sharpness than CPM S110V.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
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