Schempp Rock 'Chopper' idea

[VashHash]

My cutter knives were lighter than most with a weight of about 18 ounces with a reverse distal taper, putting as much weight as possible toward the tip. Most of them had a false edge moving weight toward the edge. With a negative blade angle the blade purchased the medium to be cut not slipping away from the cut, the knife resisted twisting in the hand in use. I'd like to see it made in Vanadis 4 or 4V.

I'd be very interested in something like this.

[sal]

Hi Ed,

Thanx for chiming in. I'll keep watching the thread. Vanadis 4 might be challenging?

sal

[bearfacedkiller]

An 18oz version in 4V sounds amazing. I can tell you that you will sell at least one of them. I am in!

How long was the blade on the original? Competition knives are limited to 10 inches. About that size?

[mark greenman]

My cutter knives were lighter than most with a weight of about 18 ounces with a reverse distal taper, putting as much weight as possible toward the tip. Most of them had a false edge moving weight toward the edge. With a negative blade angle the blade purchased the medium to be cut not slipping away from the cut, the knife resisted twisting in the hand in use. I'd like to see it made in Vanadis 4 or 4V.

Hi Ed,

That sounds awesome. Do you have any photos of your cutter that you could share?

And dimensionally, how did it differ from the factory Rock/Rock Salt?

Thanks for designing such awesome knives. In addition to the Rock Salt, I had a Tom Krein regrind one your Khukuri's that I carried for years, until I accidentally left it in my carry on and it got snagged by TSA.

[sal]

Hey Ed,

What thickness stock would we need to reach 18 oz?

sal

[JRinFL]

My cutter knives were lighter than most with a weight of about 18 ounces with a reverse distal taper, putting as much weight as possible toward the tip. Most of them had a false edge moving weight toward the edge. With a negative blade angle the blade purchased the medium to be cut not slipping away from the cut, the knife resisted twisting in the hand in use. I'd like to see it made in Vanadis 4 or 4V.

This with a smooth Micarta or G-10 grip and my interest would increase greatly. I would not cry about 3V or Cruwear/ZWear/PD-1.

[Sumdumguy]

LC200N has my vote, but I am not opposed to a tool steel if it has enough toughness to survive the chopping duties required in a survival type situation.

But really, I want it in LC200N for an OSB on a sailboat.

[mark greenman]

I'll be happy with any steel.

But personally, I'd like a pretty modest but well performing steel to keep costs close to the current Rock Salt.

A Black DLC coated 52100 to reduce corrosion seems like it would be promising; I assume 52100 is in the VG10ish price ballpark?

The 4V Province, made in Taiwan and only 3.9mm thick, is $280 on knifecenter. My concern is that a 18oz Rock Salt size chunk of 6mm thick 4V made in Japan would be like $400+ street, keeping the knife out of the hands of all but the most dedicated AFI.

Whereas I think a ~$200 street Spyderco Super Schempp Chopper would be a good seller.

[curlyhairedboy]

4V is a pretty great option too.

[TomAiello]

I'd like to see it made in Vanadis 4 or 4V.

Instant buy. V4e or 4v would be ideal for knife like this.

[Mushroom]

I've been regretting passing on the Salt version while it was on sale at the SFO a couple years back and have been searching for a bit now.

4V and you can sign me right up too!

[mark greenman]

Doing some googling, I came across a couple photos of some of the Ed Schempp competition cutters:



And info on the blade (apparently a laminated 52100):
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sch ... es.451746/

Another knife:


viewtopic.php?t=28995

[Wartstein]

Not an expert at all, but I am not sure if the exact same rather low height sabre / hollow grind of the 3mm bladestock version would work also well in a 6 mm version (like shown in your photoshopped pic)... ?

I figure that would make for a very obtuse angle plus rather massive "shoulders" were the primary bevel ends (which probably would "stop" a cut / "chop")

So perhaps a higher (hollow) sabre grind or even ffg could be better in a 6mm stock version.

Just a total laymans thoughts though...

[mark greenman]

Not an expert at all, but I am not sure if the exact same rather low height sabre / hollow grind of the 3mm bladestock version would work also well in a 6 mm version (like shown in your photoshopped pic)... ?

I figure that would make for a very obtuse angle plus rather massive "shoulders" were the primary bevel ends (which probably would "stop" a cut / "chop")

So perhaps a higher (hollow) sabre grind or even ffg could be better in a 6mm stock version.

Just a total laymans thoughts though...

Yes, I imagine there probably is a better design then the awful photoshop I did. Thats was really just to provide a visual idea for a weight gained 'Kukri profile' Rock then a hard and fast design goal.

Not sure about FFG vs Hollow; I know straight razors are hollow ground, and have fairly thick blade stock, yet quite thin blade profiles behind the edge.

Interestingly, the FFG Schemp Rock is the same weight as the Hollow ground Rock Salt. So it could be a matter of simply making the FFG Rock in 6mm; I assume doubling the thickness ~ doubles the weight?

If there is a Solidworks file of the Rock / Rock Salt, it should be possible to double the thickness of the blade steel in the computer program, and have it say what the overall knife weight would be.

[Pancake]

I think there is a difference between „any“ chopper and competition chopper.
Competition choppers are built to some rules and they are kinda niche in their usage, just to cut certain things.
Non-competition chopper could have been made to a different set of parameters.

I would like to see competition chopper from Spyderco, but I think it would be eeeeeeeeeeextremly expensive. Even in steel like 52100, or L6, something high-toughness it would be expensive.
IIRC, Benchmade did a long time aga competition chopper in M4, it was pricey and I think they still dont make profit on that one.

Currently, there is Condor Woodbuster, which is your best bet for production made chopper.

[yowzer]

I still think V-Toku 2 would be a good choice. Tough tool steel, made in Japan so you don't have to import something (Or produce the knife somewhere else).... Hap-40 would be nice too.

I really just want a Seki-made heavy duty outdoors/woodsy/bushcrafty fixed blade knife, though; doesn't necessarily have to be a Rock.

[Ed Schempp]

I used 5/16 thick steel and then grind a reverse distal taper the thickest steel is about 2" back from the tip, the end of the tang is about 1/8" thick. I grind the false edge through the handle. This geometry moves weight out toward the tip and toward the edge. It has rotational balance and a heavier swing weight, making the knife feel and work like a heavier knife while keeping the weight down for maximum speed. It would be an engineering challenge to grind out this geometry in a commercial piece. In a parallel geometry knife it would require at least .25 thick steel and the knife would gain weight.
Competition cutters are more of a cleaver and specific in cutting design for the tasks in competition.
I like Sal's philosophy of "no more than necessary, no less than perfect". If you carry this piece hiking, weight is a factor. A point has its uses in the field not in competition. Larrin might have some recommendations on steel based on edge stability on different steels.

[sal]

Hi Ed,

'Bout time you got here. :p We need your thoughts and wisdom.

For the purposes of discussion, Let's try to narrow down on the ideal tool. Starting with the same basic shape? Grinds? Steel, grip material? etc.

What is the goal of this particular design? A cutting tool that...........................?

sal

[curlyhairedboy]

I'm envisioning a chopper that's at home both in the woods or cleaning up the yard. Enough heft to remove a 1 inch limb with a swing or two... Something grippy for the handles - rough blasted micarta or maybe the G10 featured on the waterway?

[Surfingringo]

I would definitely be in on this idea! I always liked the look of the Rock Salt but when I handled it I felt it was too light for what I would do with it. Main use of a heavier version for me would be opening coconuts and cutting back brush in the jungle behind my place. I typically use short machetes for opening coconuts but I’d like something a bit heavier that is still thin enough behind the edge to cut well. So for my uses I’d want enough blade stock for weight without being ground like an axe. A tough steel would make it possible to go a bit thinner with the grind no? Tool steels are great but require a lot more care than stainless for jobs like I would be doing. I have a cheap chopper in 1095 that I’ve used for years on coconuts. I admit that I haven’t been the best about maintaining it but man, it is COVERED in rust. How does LC200N toughness compare to something like cruwear or 3V?