I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

[Ngati Pom]

Thank you, the work you have, both, put in to this is appreciated.

[Coffeetron]

Thank you for this amazing work!
I hope that we will get some more data points on the toughness chart, especially m390 and s90v.

some observations (s30v vs s90v):

S30V has been tested for edge retention in the 60-65HRC range where it did arguably really well. I don't think this hardness represents well what is generally available based on various HRC tests that I have seen (I know that this was not the intention of the tests). What's interesting is that S110V at ~62-63HRC does not show much of a difference in toughness compared to ~60HRC S30V.
If we assume that S90V is going to be tougher than S110V and that the coefficient for the S30V hardness curve will be negative (as always) it could mean that S90V and S30V at ~62HRC show very similar toughness while S90V having a much better edge retention. Speaking in relative terms.

[DOUBLE D]

Does anyone know what spyderco hardens there vg10 and their s30v to?

[Ankerson]

Does anyone know what spyderco hardens there vg10 and their s30v to?

S30V is normally ~ 60 HRC or so.

[DOUBLE D]

Does anyone know what spyderco hardens there vg10 and their s30v to?

S30V is normally ~ 60 HRC or so.

Thanks Jim! Vg10 anyone?

I’ve never owned any s90v, but based on this chart I’d love to try it. I used to have a few s110v knives, but my sharpening was not as good as it is now, and I couldn’t sharpen it well. It left me dissatisfied. Either way, neither come on the Endura. But there was a s90v Delica, so maybe there is hope one day. If they had an s110v or s90v Endura, I’d buy it in a heartbeat

[Ankerson]

Does anyone know what spyderco hardens there vg10 and their s30v to?

S30V is normally ~ 60 HRC or so.

Thanks Jim! Vg10 anyone?

Around 58 HRC from what I understand.

[araneae]

I feel like I have seen 58-60 reported for Spyderco vg-10.

[araneae]

Thanks again Larrin for a great piece of work. It's nice to see science putting some of the commonly promoted internet beliefs to rest. S30V is most likely a victim of being "common" in afi eyes which leads to the incorrect belief that its just mediocre as a cutlery steel. Newer or less common does not always equal better and we as humans are way too suggestible to make reliable conclusions in many cases.

[JacksonKnives]

Thanks again Larrin for a great piece of work. It's nice to see science putting some of the commonly promoted internet beliefs to rest. S30V is most likely a victim of being "common" in afi eyes which leads to the incorrect belief that its just mediocre as a cutlery steel. Newer or less common does not always equal better and we as humans are way too suggestible to make reliable conclusions in many cases.

This. A thousand times this. I get excited about weird things all the time, and Spyderco knows how to scratch that itch, but I'm glad they don't put too much stock in the calls to get rid of S30V.

[Ankerson]

Thanks again Larrin for a great piece of work. It's nice to see science putting some of the commonly promoted internet beliefs to rest. S30V is most likely a victim of being "common" in afi eyes which leads to the incorrect belief that its just mediocre as a cutlery steel. Newer or less common does not always equal better and we as humans are way too suggestible to make reliable conclusions in many cases.

Nothing wrong with S30V or any of the midrange steels for that matter.

[blues]

S90V:

[blues]

Cru-Wear:

[attila]

Recently I was able to acquire a used CATRA machine, so I heat treated just about every knife steel I had, made 57 knives with the help of knifemaker Shawn Houston, and tested them all to see which cut the longest. For a few of the steels I did multiple heat treatments to look at a couple variables and to see the effect of hardness. I also compared edge retention and toughness to see which steels have the best balance of properties. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/ ... fe-steels/

Thank you Larrin and Shawn!!! That’s a great article and dataset!

I was very surprised by S90V, which I’ve written off as not offering anything special since I have S110V, 204p/M390 and lots more steels to choose from. I guess I missed the memo, so I’m carrying my smooth green G10 S90V Native today to increase my experience with the steel.

I was wondering, Larrin, are you able to get K490? I can’t, but I’m no famous metallurgist either.

Also, I’ve not seen carbide type breakdowns for K490 or K390. Would you be so kind as to share or update a table in a relevant article?

Thanks again!

[SubMicron]

Wow Larrin, this is epic. Thank you for doing this!

I'm relatively new to the technical world of knife steel and have been trying to soak up as much info as I can.

The result of S30V suprises me a lot, as in it seems high, but then looking around it, deducting M4 and 4V, S30V seems to stack roughly as as I expected.

So with how big of a 4V fanboy I've become, the data points for it and M4 are under my skin a little. With CPM-4V, Spyderco seems to be delivering at ~65 HRC, but extrapolating a trend line to that HRC still doesn't place it where I expected. Perhaps its just the unique dynamics with this test media?

Tests with silica impregnated card stock interest me a lot. At work I cut a lot of heavyweight cardboard that's gotten wet, muddy, and dried. The embedded grains of sand destroy edges, filling them quickly with all kinds of little inclusions that reflect back light.

Higher HRC steels, such as REX-45 and Maxamet do not have this problem. Things like S30V/M390 quit on me way too soon and within a few cuts have noticable inclusions in the edge that can be seen and felt. Whether I'm running with 40 inclusive or 30 inclusive, the results are about the same.

A Native 5 LW Maxamet is the biggest knife that I can get away with at work, and it's even pushing it a little. With Maxamet not suffering apex damage like S30V/M390 do, it actually causes Maxamet to be the easiest of the three to sharpen... lol

I've envisioned these embedded grains of sand as having a similar effect on the apex as hitting a lightweight staple, just at smaller scale. Perhaps the grain of sand gets the inclusion started and then the cellulose in cardboard expands it further?

I'm curious how CATRA impregnates their cardstock with Sillica. Our delivery drivers do it by sliding 200lb items around in a very wet and dirty box truck. They seem to make sure it's fully loaded by tracking as much dirt and snow as possible into the truck. It's a major frustration.

I've considered getting 4V in a smaller platform that I can carry at work, such as a Lil Native from the secondary market, however the test results give me pause. Perhaps 4V just doesn't do well versus sillica? I already know S30V doesn't do well versus the sillica that I encounter and any results where S30V doesn't land at the bottom frankly are a suprise to me.

Is it possible that S30V and others, during the onset of the CATRA test, are suffering the same inclusions that I encounter, effectively creating saw teeth, and when combined with the weight applied by the machine, actually end up helping the steel to cut further and rank higher?

[sal]

Hi Larrin, Shawn,

Of the steels that we have on hand that you need; What size pieces do you need? Should we send them directly to Shawn?

I've got Rex-45, Maxamet, H1, and ???

sal

[SubMicron]

Hi Larrin, Shawn,

Of the steels that we have on hand that you need; What size pieces do you need? Should we send them directly to Shawn?

I've got Rex-45, Maxamet, H1, and ???

sal

Sal, I have to say that I'm very happy with how you stay involved with and support the knife community. There's definitely some other knife makers that could learn from your example.

[blues]

Hi Larrin, Shawn,

Of the steels that we have on hand that you need; What size pieces do you need? Should we send them directly to Shawn?

I've got Rex-45, Maxamet, H1, and ???

sal

Sal, I have to say that I'm very happy with how you stay involved with and support the knife community. There's definitely some other knife makers that could learn from your example.

Hear, hear. Sal, leads by example. Always has done.

[Deadboxhero]

Hi Larrin, Shawn,

Of the steels that we have on hand that you need; What size pieces do you need? Should we send them directly to Shawn?

I've got Rex-45, Maxamet, H1, and ???

sal

Very exciting,
We'll just have them sent to me. I got another batch to complete and add. I'll send you an email Sal.

-Shawn

[sal]

Thanx Shawn,

Let me know what steels you are after.

FYI. I'm carrying the 2nd prototype of your design. very impressive. I'll shoot you an email.

sal

[SubMicron]

I dont use Patreon.

Who else agrees that the Knife Steel Nerds website needs a donate button?