Strops and compounds

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skeeg11
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Strops and compounds

#1

Post by skeeg11 »

Seems most are using strops and compounds instead of honing steels except for softer kitchen knives below 61 hrc. Would love to hear recommendations, pros & cons and guidelines.
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Evil D
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Re: Strops and compounds

#2

Post by Evil D »

Pros:

Can take an edge to the next level of sharpness.
Relatively cheap to buy/make
Lots of grit options if you use diamond paste
Stropping can be done on practically anything including a newspaper so you can potentially touch up an edge almost anywhere

Cons:

Can mask poor sharpening technique; will straighten a burr edge making it seem sharper until you use it and the burr breaks off and you lose edge retention
Can easily roll an edge and make it less sharp if you're not careful with angle and pressure
IMO too many people think you can "maintain" an edge on a strop. Repeated stropping only bends the teeth of the edge straight. Over time that bending of the teeth weakens the steel and edge retention drops. I never strop after the first time sharpening a knife, to me once a knife is dull it needs properly resharpened on stones. YMMV.


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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Strops and compounds

#3

Post by TkoK83Spy »

This has the potential to turn into one of those great threads we get from time to time, something like the "what Spyderco knife should I get for my first knife?"

Certainly not a bad idea for thread, but there is probably going to be MANY different opinions and responses. As there are many different options and price points on materials.

I personally find myself able to get easily popping hairs of the brown stones alone. Sometimes I'll go to the fines, or even ultra fines. Sometimes I'll go right off the browns and use my KnivesPlus green strop ($25 I think??) It definitely does clean up the edge a bit, it's definitely a bit sharper...but sometimes I don't really think it's needed because it's already sharp before doing so and I know I'm going to be using the knife fairly hard in the coming days anyways, likely wearing though that phase of stropping fairly quickly.

I've never got into the fancy compounds for it. The instructions that came with it said just to use a small dab of olive oil when the strop looks dry or is loaded. $25...works just fine!
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bbturbodad
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Re: Strops and compounds

#4

Post by bbturbodad »

I like using a piece of wood with a diamond or cbn compound for stropping. I find the combination of a stiff strop (I like basswood) with a high hardness compound works well to remove any burr that's left after sharpening and is less likely to roll the edge.
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SubMicron
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Re: Strops and compounds

#5

Post by SubMicron »

I sharpen by hand and have played around quite a bit over the last 6 months with various strop substrates and diamond emulsions as well as a 0.1 CBN

I maintain a few strop progressions, each can create a hair whittling edge, with minimal passes, if I do good on the stones.

Basswood: 10, 6, 3, 1, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 micron
Primarily I'll use some of these if I want to strop with relatively high pressure, usually for polishing purposes. With each, I've sanded them flat with sandpaper on top of glass. With this progression I used a combination of WE Paste, DMT Paste, CKTG spray, and CBN for 0.1 mic. These load up fast with steel, except for finer grits which require higher pressure to create the same buildup. I sanded these very fine to help prevent the abrasive from settling too deep in the wood.

Kangaroo: 14, 10, 6, 3 micron.
Generally I prefer Roo with course grits due to blemishes and scars in the hide which become exaggerated over time as it soaks up moisture and steel. The Roo that I have is not efficient with finer grits and I now use these with the coarser WE paste and DMT paste and they load up very fast, especially above 3 micron. Meanwhile a 14 mic Roo can take down almost any burr if needed.

Bovine: 1, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 micron
These are flatter and harder than Roo, and very thirsty. I used generous amounts of CKTG diamond spray and then CBN emulsion for the 0.1 micron. They load up fast enough with steel, even at fine grits with lower pressure.

CKTG Sienna XCEL: 1, 0.75, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 micron
These are waxy and smooth, and dont soak up anything. With these I've used the tiniest amounts of spray or emulsion and they load up very slow with how little I've used. I dont always want a strop that quickly removes steel.

I've tried denim and microfiber options and was unhappy

When I sharpen, depending on what I'm sharpening, what stone/plate I finished on, and what I'm trying to achieve, all of these strops give me options.

Strops of this kind, with diamond or CBN, are cutting the steel more than they're burnishing and reorganizing the steel. In many cases I can actually work up a new burr on the strops, a visible burr, even with very fine grits.

I finish my edge on my last stone, remove all burr as best as possible, and try to minimize my time on the strops. If I do good on the stones, I'll be able to finish a quick strop progression within 20-30 total passes per side. In many cases I'll finish inside of 10-15 passes per side on a single strop.

When I get around to it, I want to experiment with fine compounds on hardwood to check the cutting efficiency. With strops that cut quickly, I can dramatically reduce the amount of strokes and thus minimize errors.

Feedback from the strop is important. I need to feel the flat of the edge bevel and need a contrast in feel when it hits the apex or shoulder of the bevel. The draw has to be smooth and consistent... it cant be binding up, skipping around, or sliding quickly in spots. All of this can happen as strops age, dry, or get loaded up, or with incorrect amounts of diamond or cbn.

If you want to experiment, it's a deep rabbit hole with lots to explore.
Baron Mind
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Re: Strops and compounds

#6

Post by Baron Mind »

I use a combination of basswood and horsehide. Usually I want the small amount of compression and microconvexing that leather offers to deburr, then I switch to basswood to finish refining the apex.

For compounds I use polydiamond sprays and emulsions from jende industries or Ken Schwartz.

Would strongly suggest using a strop if you're interested in high level sharpness.
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JacksonKnives
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Re: Strops and compounds

#7

Post by JacksonKnives »

SubMicron wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:52 pm

Strops of this kind, with diamond or CBN, are cutting the steel more than they're burnishing and reorganizing the steel. In many cases I can actually work up a new burr on the strops, a visible burr, even with very fine grits.
Figuring out what you've got after your stones is key to success. Thanks for posting your experience, that's a lot of testing!

I think people underestimate the effect of a strop on low-wear-resistance steel. A straight razor is definitely sharper coming off a green or white strop, and even a bare leather strop, if you can figure out pressure/angle/rate, though obviously that's the extreme examples where less than a micron of material removal matters.
SubMicron
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Re: Strops and compounds

#8

Post by SubMicron »

Id like to experiment with different wood species as strop substrates, especially hardwoods.

I'm convinced, but may be wrong, that the finer grit diamond and cbn settles into the grain of the wood, at least partially, which makes it less effective because the blade is just moving over the top of the wood. This could explain why pressure is required to make them cut properly.

So I'm interested in the density of the grain structure within the wood. Would a dense hardwood hold the abrasive closer to the surface allowing it to cut more effectively?

Leather is great because it generally holds the abrasive at the surface and also holds it in place. The problem is that it convexes the apex and develops increasing inconsistencies over time.

Wood can easily be sanded flat.
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Larry_Mott
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Re: Strops and compounds

#9

Post by Larry_Mott »

SubMicron wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:02 pm
Id like to experiment with different wood species as strop substrates, especially hardwoods.

I'm convinced, but may be wrong, that the finer grit diamond and cbn settles into the grain of the wood, at least partially, which makes it less effective because the blade is just moving over the top of the wood. This could explain why pressure is required to make them cut properly.

So I'm interested in the density of the grain structure within the wood. Would a dense hardwood hold the abrasive closer to the surface allowing it to cut more effectively?

Leather is great because it generally holds the abrasive at the surface and also holds it in place. The problem is that it convexes the apex and develops increasing inconsistencies over time.

Wood can easily be sanded flat.
I have a theory that micro-convexing makes my edge last a bit longer, although it may feel sharper/have more "bite" off of the stones.
Lacking scientific proof it may only be fluke or "Pepsi challenge syndrome"
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The Meat man
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Re: Strops and compounds

#10

Post by The Meat man »

I get pretty good results with 14 micron diamond compound from Gritomatic, on basswood. Also Tormek's 3 micron alumina oxide paste in a tube works well. I haven't tried any other stropping compounds.
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