Native chief vs Endura?. **Now with pics**

[Doc Dan]

My hands ... well I wear a XXL glove, USA size. The handle is long enough on the Endura, but that first bump is really in the way. It’s weird, as long as I choke up the Delica works okay.

[dodgie02]

Well ****. The Endura is a favorite of mine, never really minded the ergos though they aren't on par with spydies in the native and (para) military line but now I really notice that first hump I have to say that I'm not a fan haha.
I've been carrying a g10 s110v manix 2 lately again (to decide whether or not to get the rex one. I passed. Got enough knives and too little cash) so that might be too much of a jump in ergos, increased levels of contrast, all that. But yeah.. What's up with that.

[DOUBLE D]

The Chief is really good. I cant imagine it disappointing anybody.

If the endura didnt have those darn points in the handle it would probably be one of my favorite knives. That one little thing kills it for me. I should just start sanding them down so that I can have enduras that I enjoy.

Endura 4 with front point sanded down.

Endura 4 stock

Endura 3 (Pac salt)



Edit... Wow im bad at this technology stuff. Can someone tell me where I went wrong on posting these pics

Edit again... To the meat man, you are the man

[The Meat man]

I don't think there's supposed to be any dots before or after the imgur link.

[Wartstein]

Edit... Wow im bad at this technology stuff. Can someone tell me where I went wrong on posting these pics

When the upload is completed on imgur, you get four options for sharelinks. Gotta choose " BBcode forums" and put that link here...

[DOUBLE D]

I don't think there's supposed to be any dots before or after the imgur link.

Thank you!

[VooDooChild]

After seeing DOUBLE Ds pics Im thinking I will sand down that first point on the endura.

[Sumdumguy]

Chief without question. The Endura has an awful handle, the opposite of neutral.

Same with the Delica and Endela. They are the right design, with the wrong handle. The bad part is, they refuse to fix it, haha.

The dislike by some of the Endura 4 handle is one of the big knife mysteries to me: I (L to XL hands) personally have always loved the Endura 4 ergos, even long before I joined this forum and knew anything what other people think about them, I honestly even can´t decide if I prefer the Stretch or Endura ergos...

I like the Pac Salt handle (= "old" Endura handle) too, but for me the E4 handle clearly is better: More comfortable, regardless if I put my thumb to the side of the blade (which I tend to do) or on the thumb ramp, it feels more stable, secure and like a "tighter fit" (more contact of the fingers with the handle) than the Pac Salt handle...

If I would not have learned that really experienced knife users / knife guys like you (Sumdumguy) or David (Evil D) don´t really like the E4 ergos, I´d honestly would have recommend this knife as an ergomomic masterpiece (which it is for me) at least for everyone who has about my hand size..

Everyone is different, which is why I like neutrality

My hands ride the ridges and I can't stand it. It's usable, but not if I have the choice. The Pac Salt handle was not bad, zero issues with it.

Me and David are apparently just freaks of nature, haha.

[DOUBLE D]

After seeing DOUBLE Ds pics Im thinking I will sand down that first point on the endura.

It only took about 15-20 minutes with a few different grits of sandpaper. The first time I did it, I took the scales off afterward and re-dyed the scales to take away the slight fade of the sanding. But with this one I got lazy and didn't do that. But with a little use, the fade went away, probably from the oils on my hand.

[DOUBLE D]

Anyhow... More info on the chief please!

[ThomC]

I bought an Endura before my PM2, and while I ended up sending it back, I really liked the way it felt. Probably why I ordered the cliffe SE ^^
As for the Chief, I hesitated between it and the PM2, but I'll wait and see if my online retailer gets the Rex 45 sprint at a good price to try it. I like variery in my knives and while I like the design I don't see myself getting another S30V blade. It looks very good though.

[ugaarguy]

Well, discussed a lot already and I feel totally different (but of course there's no wrong or right here):

I have L to XL hands, and for me the Delica does everything right in that size class: Very generous handle even for bigger hands, and a Ricasso I personally (and many others) can perfectly choke up on at least as well as on most dedicated choils .. plus when gripped on the actual handle my hand still is rather close to the edge...

And, just said in another thread: Even choking up on the actual edge is no problem either for somewhat experienced knife users imho.(but not necessary on a Delica)

Would be a real shame if the great Delica design would be changed into yet another choiled knife in that size class: For those who want that we have Native, Para 3, Sage. . already...

We have discussed it quite a bit. I've been carrying a pocket knife everywhere I legally can for over thirty years. I've used them fishing salt and freshwater, in the snow and talcum powder volcanic sand of the high desert plains of Southwest Idaho, rafting the Snake river, while deployed to sandstorm ridden deserts in SE Asia, and in the deep south and Midwest US. I bought a Delica for a good friend. I can't safely choke up the ricasso of a Delica. Post service, I've gained weight, and my fingers are pretty darn thick. I can't get a comfortable grip on just the scales of a Delica.

I never said the Delica should be redesigned as a choiled knife. I said I'm glad I have the Native as an alternative. I'm glad the Delica works for you. As commercially successful as the Delica has been, I'm sure it works for a large percentage of the knife buying population. It doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are other people like me, who are in the minority that the Delica doesn't work for. I'll continue to point out that Spyderco offers alternatives that feel completely different in the hand.

Getting Back On Topic:

I've owned an Endura, and it was a very good knife. If I were going to buy another long blade back lock, it would probably be a Native Chief. I'm a big fan of the liner-less G10 scales that Spyderco carried over from the Native 5 to the Native Chief. The price is also quite nice for a US made knife, and on top of that, Sal has revealed that the Golden made back locks have incredible tolerances. I like the Chief that I've handled, because it has very similar ergos to the regular Native 5, as one would expect.

[Wartstein]

We have discussed it quite a bit. I've been carrying a pocket knife everywhere I legally can for over thirty years. I've used them fishing salt and freshwater, in the snow and talcum powder volcanic sand of the high desert plains of Southwest Idaho, rafting the Snake river, while deployed to sandstorm ridden deserts in SE Asia, and in the deep south and Midwest US. I bought a Delica for a good friend. I can't safely choke up the ricasso of a Delica. Post service, I've gained weight, and my fingers are pretty darn thick. I can't get a comfortable grip on just the scales of a Delica.

I never said the Delica should be redesigned as a choiled knife. I said I'm glad I have the Native as an alternative. I'm glad the Delica works for you. As commercially successful as the Delica has been, I'm sure it works for a large percentage of the knife buying population. It doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are other people like me, who are in the minority that the Delica doesn't work for. I'll continue to point out that Spyderco offers alternatives that feel completely different in the hand.

.....

Thanks for your reply!

I took the statement in your previous post as yet another of the many times someone wants one of the rare small Ricasso Spydies with a generous actual handle for larger hands (Delica) changed into yet another choiled small knife with an insufficient actual handle length/grip area (Para 3 and so on).

I was wrong in this case in doing so and certainly never wanted to imply that you would have no experience with knives! I am sorry if it came across like that.

And I actually liked my Native 5, but would have preferred if it had no choil and by that both a long enough grip area on the actual handle AND a longer cutting edge,
And I admit: Since for a long time now I do choke up safely and without any problems not only on a Ricasso, but even on the actual cutting edge (which, as I layed out in another thread, not too few do and this literally since medieval times), I am not really in need of choils generally, despite I still like ´em.

/ Well, I say too :Back on topic..

Some of the first things I personally tend to check right away when considering a folder is length of actual cutting edge and closed length (length in pocket) - for me Endura and Chief are really in the same ballpark concerning that measures, and so they are in weight (the Chief is just slightly longer, has just slightly more edge and is just slightly "heavier") - so for me it would really come down to ergos (which I can´t compare, never even handled a Chief) and if I´d want a thumb ramp or not. I personally tend to like thumb ramps, cause they make the blade taller at the heel and that acommodates my habit of putting my thumb sideways on the blade there (instead of ON the actual ramp).

Still I think: An FRN Chief could absolutely kick out the Endura out of my pocket - not always, but often... :rolleyes:

[Wartstein]

Don't want to complicate things... but now that the Siren seems to become actually available finally: it certainly is another very considerable choice in that very type- and size-class too...

[DOUBLE D]

I agree that an frn chief would be the ideal for me I think. I am a fan of the feel of frn and frcp. But is that even on the horizon?

[ugaarguy]

I agree that an frn chief would be the ideal for me I think. I am a fan of the feel of frn and frcp. But is that even on the horizon?

I'd guess it's not on the horizon, because we don't even have a lightweight version of the Lil' Native in either lock yet. But, I'd also be surprised if a LW / FRN Chief isn't somewhere down the list of planned knives. Given the number of sprints and standard production variants, the Native 5 FRN is obviously a pretty good seller. Then again, I also don't know how well bigger folders sell in FRN or FRCP vs. G10 or a more premium handle material.

[TheGiant80]

It's awesome how, whenever I have a Spydie-related question, I can wait a day or two and someone else on this forum will ask it for me. :)

Currently trying to decide between the Endura 4 in ZDP-189, or attempting to snag a Native Chief in REX45 when it becomes available. Just for light to medium EDC tasks, and maybe some camping duties here and there. I have XXL hands. I thought I had decided on the E4, but the Native Chief has been haunting my dreams lately!

[tyd450]

It's awesome how, whenever I have a Spydie-related question, I can wait a day or two and someone else on this forum will ask it for me. :)

Currently trying to decide between the Endura 4 in ZDP-189, or attempting to snag a Native Chief in REX45 when it becomes available. Just for light to medium EDC tasks, and maybe some camping duties here and there. I have XXL hands. I thought I had decided on the E4, but the Native Chief has been haunting my dreams lately!

Go for the chief. I have 2x-3x hands and the endura ergos don't work at all for me, the finger grooves hit me in all the wrong places. Plus in my experience the Japanese QC and overall fit and finish is a couple steps below what you get from the Golden factory.

[Wartstein]

It's awesome how, whenever I have a Spydie-related question, I can wait a day or two and someone else on this forum will ask it for me. :)

Currently trying to decide between the Endura 4 in ZDP-189, or attempting to snag a Native Chief in REX45 when it becomes available. Just for light to medium EDC tasks, and maybe some camping duties here and there. I have XXL hands. I thought I had decided on the E4, but the Native Chief has been haunting my dreams lately!

Do you have the opportunity to handle an Endura 4? Its handle design seems to be a bit polarizing: Some love it (I personally (L to XL hands) certainly do!), others somehow don´t like the placement of the finger grooves. And that, as far as I see it, is the case almost regardless of the particular handsize a person might have (some love it, some not so much), so it would be good if you could try for yourself...

What speaks for the Endura for me personally (totally subjective of course): Contoured FRN, more robust tip, lighter and slimmer carry.
That being said: I definitely want to try a Chief in the not too far future! :)

[DOUBLE D]

Ok, I just purchased a native chief. I'll Update this thread when I get it with some comparison photos and some thoughts on both models. The Endura in supergold, which is my main edc knife, should be a pretty even comparison to the s30v chief, so at least in terms of steel it will be a fair and even comparison.