Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

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Wartstein
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Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:15 pm

I am really thinking about getting a Manix once more.
Had an LW model and liked it a lot, but this time I am contemplating the G10 model.

Now: I am not a real "steel guy" and totally fine with the S30V in the base model (in fact I think it´s a great EDC steel), but am still considering the REX 45 sprint (yes, it is still available in Europe, for converted almost 200 USD though).
Tbh I´d prefer the REX45 Manix mainly for the lighter weight (milled out liners) and cause I like burnt orange, not necessarely for the steel... ("nothing wrong" though with experiencing a new-to-me tool steel... ;) )

My questions:

- I have two HAP 40 / SUS 410 Spydies and really like this steel
How close to cladded HAP 40 is the REX 45 really? I know that they are pretty much "the same" steel, but I´ve heard that REX45 is run noticeably harder.
Does that make it a lot harder to sharpen and more brittle / less though?
- How would you "experts" say it compares to S30V in sharpenability, toughness, edge retention and so on? (Rust resistance is not an issue at all for me) - of course I roughly know the differences, but any further input would be appreciated! :)


For perspective:
- I use all my knives more or less "hard" and I don´t want to "baby" any of them. That means for example cutting and twisting the blade in hard wood, maybe accidently hitting metal or stone a bit, doing not too crazy tip work and so on.
- My HAP 40 Endura or my Chap LW in XHP hold up well to the kind of work I am doing
- I would have no need for a knife that has great edge retention, but is not somewhat tough on the flipside and/or very hard to touch up.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby VooDooChild » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:25 pm

I have only cut one thing with my rex45 so far but it was high weight fiberglass strands bunched together like rope. It did well.
I dont have any more input but it did better than vg10.

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:26 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:25 pm
I have only cut one thing with my rex45 so far but it was high weight fiberglass strands bunched together like rope. It did well.
I dont have any more input but it did better than vg10.

Thanks! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Cycletroll » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:46 pm

Rex 45 will have higher edge stability and greater edge retention on the order of 50% greater fine edge retention and double the working edge compared to s30v. It will be tough to sharpen quickly with standard abrasives but comes up nicely using diamond stones. And of course Rex 45 is not stainless.
HAP40 is same chemistry but lesser heat treat (not as hard as done by Spyderco) so performance is somewhere in between s30v and Rex45.
Edit to add: IME both Rex45 and Hap 40 take a very keen edge without too much stuborn burr formation.
(I have a Rex 45 Mille and Hap40 Endura)

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby JMM » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:25 pm

Depending on who you ask or where you get your data, Rex45 and Hap40 are either identical or very close to one another in terms of the actual contents of the steel...

I would strongly encourage you to watch the Michael Christy video on Hap40 vs Rex45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPrKByImasY

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby The Meat man » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:34 pm

The steels are practically the same but the HT used by Spyderco is radically different. I don't have much experience with HAP40 or S30V but I would bet that they would fall far short of the kind of raw edge strength exhibited by CPM REX 45.

Here's an informative thread on the topic:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80749
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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby abbazaba » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:46 pm

The Delica HAP40 Pakkawood was one of my most carried knives in the office when it dropped. The PM2 REX45 was one of my most carried knives out of the office after it dropped. Certainly not apples to apples, but I never felt like HAP40 was as good as my experience with M4, which is my benchmark. However, the REX45 PM2 continues to impress and is at least as good as M4 in my day to day use. Both are easy to keep sharp IMO, but you'd want the right equipment to reset the bevel (diamonds IME).

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby JuPaul » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:30 pm

JMM wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:25 pm
Depending on who you ask or where you get your data, Rex45 and Hap40 are either identical or very close to one another in terms of the actual contents of the steel...

I would strongly encourage you to watch the Michael Christy video on Hap40 vs Rex45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPrKByImasY
Great video. Here's another good one from BBB. Although he doesn't discuss hap40, he does discuss how rex45 compares to other popular tool steels in terms of hardness, toughness, and overall edge stability.

https://youtu.be/PzIEuz0ogoE
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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Sharp Guy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:51 pm

Cycletroll wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:46 pm
....and greater edge retention on the order of 50% greater fine edge retention and double the working edge compared to s30v.....
I'm curious what you're basing this from?

I haven't seen that but I've really only been using my REX 45 Para 3 so far. I seem to get a lot more out of S30V than a lot folks give it credit for. I should clarify that most of the S30V knives I use regularly have been reprofiled to 15 dps. My REX Para 3 still has the factory edge but I have touched it up on the Sharpmaker medium stones a couple times.
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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby cycleguy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:57 pm

Delica VG10 has been my EDC for a very very long time. I have always been content with it. Have been using Delica HAP40 since the big discount at Fradon. HAP40 has my attention in a very big way. I have yet to sharpen it and have done one quick touch up. I am impressed with how sharp this knife came and how long the edge (factory) has lasted. I need more time cutting and time sharpening before I conclude, but I may be saying so-long to VG10.

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:11 am

Here’s another fun video from BBB aka Deadboxhero on rex45. Makes ya cringe!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOpu13O_OFE
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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Cycletroll » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:29 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:51 pm
Cycletroll wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:46 pm
....and greater edge retention on the order of 50% greater fine edge retention and double the working edge compared to s30v.....
I'm curious what you're basing this from?

I haven't seen that but I've really only been using my REX 45 Para 3 so far. I seem to get a lot more out of S30V than a lot folks give it credit for. I should clarify that most of the S30V knives I use regularly have been reprofiled to 15 dps. My REX Para 3 still has the factory edge but I have touched it up on the Sharpmaker medium stones a couple times.
Outpost 76 & super steel steve both had repeatable and similar results in cardboard cut testing with numbers roughly what I stated. Michael Christy also had an anecdotally similar experience. My personal experience is a rough guesstimate without as empirical a test methadology.
S30v is a great all around steel and very balanced for what it is. It will not however keep up with the high vanadium, high hardness steels in abrasive wear resistance Also, being stainless with large, irregular Chromium carbides, will not be as tough or have as high edge stability as high tungsten, high HRC tool steels.
Big Brown Bear has also done some impressive edge stability tests comparing Rex45 with M4.

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Sharp Guy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:17 pm

Cycletroll wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:29 pm
Sharp Guy wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:51 pm
Cycletroll wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:46 pm
....and greater edge retention on the order of 50% greater fine edge retention and double the working edge compared to s30v.....
I'm curious what you're basing this from?

I haven't seen that but I've really only been using my REX 45 Para 3 so far. I seem to get a lot more out of S30V than a lot folks give it credit for. I should clarify that most of the S30V knives I use regularly have been reprofiled to 15 dps. My REX Para 3 still has the factory edge but I have touched it up on the Sharpmaker medium stones a couple times.
Outpost 76 & super steel steve both had repeatable and similar results in cardboard cut testing with numbers roughly what I stated. Michael Christy also had an anecdotally similar experience. My personal experience is a rough guesstimate without as empirical a test methadology.
S30v is a great all around steel and very balanced for what it is. It will not however keep up with the high vanadium, high hardness steels in abrasive wear resistance Also, being stainless with large, irregular Chromium carbides, will not be as tough or have as high edge stability as high tungsten, high HRC tool steels.
Big Brown Bear has also done some impressive edge stability tests comparing Rex45 with M4.
Thanks! I was just curious. I'm sure I'm totally wrong but, with the exception of Maxamet, I just don't seem to get that much more out of some of these high-end steels in my totally unscientific real world use. Doesn't mean the YT heroes aren't right. They've certainly put a lot of effort into actual testing than I ever will.
I do occasionally watch Shawn and Michael Christy simply because I find their stuff more interesting than all these other guys. I also used to look at Jim Ankerson's testing and I have Cedric & Ada's spreadsheet bookmarked. I rarely look at those things any more because high edge retention isn't as important to me as I once thought it would be. I kind of lost interest about the time I took my S110V Manix 2 LW and BD1 Manix 2 LW (both with similar edges) and proceeded to cut a large appliance box into tiny pieces. The BD1 knife cut way longer than it should've compared to the S110V. Now, I simply use a knife until I think it needs sharpening and then I touch it up or reprofile it.

I have four REX 45 knives now. So I look forward enjoying 50% greater fine edge retention and double the working edge compared to my S30V knives (not going to hold my breath until I see those kind of results though)
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Luke2236 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:56 am

I have been using a spyderco in rex 45 for quite a while. Either a PM2 or manix2. Great steel for what I use it for (farm life,cutting all sorts of stuff on a daily basis and using the knife to process game.) from my experience s30v doesn’t come close. Granted I use my knives for things a knife shouldn’t be used for, but s30v just chips out so bad I don’t have a life in that steel anymore. It’s been a long time since I have had a knife in HAP 40 so I can’t really help you on that.
Wanted: M4 PM 2 or manix M4.

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Wartstein » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:41 pm

Luke2236 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:56 am
I have been using a spyderco in rex 45 for quite a while. Either a PM2 or manix2. Great steel for what I use it for (farm life,cutting all sorts of stuff on a daily basis and using the knife to process game.) from my experience s30v doesn’t come close. Granted I use my knives for things a knife shouldn’t be used for, but s30v just chips out so bad I don’t have a life in that steel anymore. It’s been a long time since I have had a knife in HAP 40 so I can’t really help you on that.

That's good Info, thank you!
/ But the Manix you can only have for a very short time yet, right?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Spydercos REX 45: How similar is it really to cladded HAP 40, how far is it from S30V?

Postby Luke2236 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:15 pm

I’ve had it since they were available. I got it as soon as my local dealer got them in. It has taken my beloved GB1 out of my pocket for now. I’m not completely sold on the blade shape but it’s growing on me.
Wanted: M4 PM 2 or manix M4.


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