>30 degree factory bevels

[Evil D]

It's my understanding that many models are now sharpened by a robot? How many threads do we still see where a knife hits the apex on the Sharpmaker at 30 degrees on one side but not the other?

1) Why are they ever inconsistent now if they're sharpened by a robot? It was understandable when a human was doing it on a belt but it doesn't make sense if a robotic arm is doing it.

2) Why not drop factory bevel angle down to 25ish inclusive so that even if they are slightly higher than 12 or so degrees per side, users will still be able to sharpen them on the 30 setting on the Sharpmaker?

Nobody wants to have to reprofile a brand new knife, and if a person is new/inexperienced with the Sharpmaker, that is not going to be a very forgiving or positive first impression. I think it's really important that people are able to get easy repeatable results the first time or else they'll get jaded real quick. If their only option with a brand new knife is the 40 degree setting, they will eventually have to do a full reprofile job back on the 30 setting and depending on the steel that's just not a fun experience. If a knife came from the factory with a 20-25 inclusive bevel, they would automatically start micro beveling when sharpening on the 30 slots which would also go a long way towards making the edge stronger and reduce any fear of steels not being able to handle lower angles without damaging them.

[phaust]

More acute than a Sharpmaker would be a welcomed change for sure.

[Sharp Guy]

I could be wrong but it was my understanding that only certain models made in Golden were sharpened using a robotic arm.

Also, I don't see what the big issue is with the edge angle the knives currently come with. It seems like it's good for general use and they all seem to be around 35° inclusive. So I use the factory edge for awhile until I feel it needs a touch up. Then I sharpen the apex on 40° side of the Sharpmaker. I repeat the whole process until I feel the microbevel is too tall. At that point I can reprofile using CBN rods on the 30° side or use my Hapstone. I usually opt for the latter. Then I start the whole process over

[sok]

As long as it is less than 40, I'm good. Less than 30 would fill that parameter. I do see what you are talking about when a "new to the Sharpmaker" person doesn't understand the microbevel concept and can see no results on the 30 degree settings. They could get frustrated sharpening a 32 degree edge.

[TkoK83Spy]

I never use the Sharpmaker base itself because I never hit the apex on either setting. I always thought they were supposedly ground to hit the apex at the 40 degree setting though?

[GarageBoy]

Deadboxhero posted on his you tube a video that shows the sharpening and someone commented that the way spyderco does it may not necessarily but the most precise method but allows greater flexibility

[Evil D]

I could be wrong but it was my understanding that only certain models made in Golden were sharpened using a robotic arm.

Also, I don't see what the big issue is with the edge angle the knives currently come with. It seems like it's good for general use and they all seem to be around 35° inclusive. So I use the factory edge for awhile until I feel it needs a touch up. Then I sharpen the apex on 40° side of the Sharpmaker. I repeat the whole process until I feel the microbevel is too tall. At that point I can reprofile using CBN rods on the 30° side or use my Hapstone. I usually opt for the latter. Then I start the whole process over

I'm mostly trying to speak for newer less experienced users. From a business perspective it's tough it sell them a knife plus a sharpener only to tell them oops the knife sorta doesn't work with the sharpener without a significant amount of initial work unless you buy this additional sharpening rod. I have to wonder how many people just give up when one side of the bevel is too steep.

[Evil D]

I never use the Sharpmaker base itself because I never hit the apex on either setting. I always thought they were supposedly ground to hit the apex at the 40 degree setting though?

I've heard for years that they shoot for 30 inclusive.

[ManyReason]

Yea I recently got my Para 3 and one was perfect 15 degrees on one side but the other was a little obtuse angle, I had to reprofile with diamond rods but it's fine at the end, I'm learning and honestly more aesthetic for me! At the moment I have successfully reprofiled that wonky side to 15 degrees so my back bevel is good but after coming off the diamond rods I can't cut paper, at best only one side kind of cuts paper but the other side feels dull. I want to make sure I can cut paper before moving off the diamonds. I ordered a loupe like Sal said but it'll come on Monday, in the meantime anyone have tips? Cause I am using light pressure to knock off the burr and I know I should be at the apex as I reprofiled the one side so their both 30 degrees inclusive

[sok]

Yea I recently got my Para 3 and one was perfect 15 degrees on one side but the other was a little obtuse angle, I had to reprofile with diamond rods but it's fine at the end, I'm learning and honestly more aesthetic for me! At the moment I have successfully reprofiled that wonky side to 15 degrees so my back bevel is good but after coming off the diamond rods I can't cut paper, at best only one side kind of cuts paper but the other side feels dull. I want to make sure I can cut paper before moving off the diamonds. I ordered a loupe like Sal said but it'll come on Monday, in the meantime anyone have tips? Cause I am using light pressure to knock off the burr and I know I should be at the apex as I reprofiled the one side so their both 30 degrees inclusive

I think a loupe and a sharpie will answer a lot of your questions.

[ManyReason]

Yea I recently got my Para 3 and one was perfect 15 degrees on one side but the other was a little obtuse angle, I had to reprofile with diamond rods but it's fine at the end, I'm learning and honestly more aesthetic for me! At the moment I have successfully reprofiled that wonky side to 15 degrees so my back bevel is good but after coming off the diamond rods I can't cut paper, at best only one side kind of cuts paper but the other side feels dull. I want to make sure I can cut paper before moving off the diamonds. I ordered a loupe like Sal said but it'll come on Monday, in the meantime anyone have tips? Cause I am using light pressure to knock off the burr and I know I should be at the apex as I reprofiled the one side so their both 30 degrees inclusive

I think a loupe and a sharpie will answer a lot of your questions.

I did try sharpie when reprofiling a few times to make sure the edge bevel is 30, so when reprofiling the wonky edge at perfect 30 degrees strokes I eventually reprofiled where after a few strokes the sharpie comes off

[Bloke]

Hey, D, I understand exactly what you’re saying.

It must be very frustrating for someone who is starting out, saves their pennies and buys a quality Spyderco knife, possibly the most expensive knife they’ve ever owned. Then gone to the added expense of buying the recommended Spyderco sharpener only to find the thiing doesn’t work on their particular knife.

What’s worse is they bought a knife with a super steel blade. The bloody edge is ground obtuse, the coarsest stone in the set just doesn’t seem to remove steel like they may have expected, so from where they’re standing they see a flying crock and wonder why they ever bothered. Everyone looses, the customer, Spyderco, ...

From a toolmaker’s trade background I understand it’s near impossible to make two things exactly the same size or shape. I think it’s also important to understand tolerances. For example, there is a tolerance on blade stock thickness, FFG angle, spine to edge, length of blade, length of cutting edge, pivot hole placement ... Add to all that that you’re working with compound angles and accumulative error adds up pretty quick and grinding wheels don’t keep there dimensions very long at all so I can certainly understand why bevel grinds sometimes are the way they are.

Anyhow, that’s my long winded way of saying, I too believe bevels should definitely be ground sub 30 degrees, therefore giving the new punter with a brand new Spyder and SharpMaker a positive experience and the option of whether to micobevel or not. I can’t help thinking more than one person with only a SharpMaker to sharpen with has settled for a 40deg bevel when they would have preferred and most likely been better off with a 30deg bevel all because it was all too bloody hard. :)

[kennethsime]

I bet this is one of those things that's just real hard to nail down. I mean they obviously all come quite sharp, but nailing an exact DPS would probably add a significant amount of time (cost) into the production of each knife.

Perhaps the solution is to drop it sub-30, but then that's very thin for the average user who expects to use their pocket knife as a pry bar.

It's a balance, and I'm not sure that I'm the one to judge what the best solution is.

[Evil D]

I bet this is one of those things that's just real hard to nail down. I mean they obviously all come quite sharp, but nailing an exact DPS would probably add a significant amount of time (cost) into the production of each knife.

Perhaps the solution is to drop it sub-30, but then that's very thin for the average user who expects to use their pocket knife as a pry bar.

It's a balance, and I'm not sure that I'm the one to judge what the best solution is.

Oh I'm certain it has to do with making knives "beater safe" so I guess it's a matter of balancing issues.

[prndltech]

They aren’t the only ones, I may have never had a spyderco with even angles on both sides... but I’ve also not had even angles on any of $400+ knives (think “big 3”) so there’s that. I get what you’re saying, but I haven’t experienced it and I can’t afford to pay more for a knife... I wonder at what price point you get that?

[Sharp Guy]

I never use the Sharpmaker base itself because I never hit the apex on either setting. I always thought they were supposedly ground to hit the apex at the 40 degree setting though?

I've had at least 120 Spydies (I've stopped counting) and every one of them has hit the apex on both sides on the 40°setting. They've all been somewhere between 20 dps and 15 dps. Most seem like they're right in the middle. I've never had one that I had to reprofile to touch up the apex on the 40° side. Maybe I've just been really lucky?

[Evil D]

They aren’t the only ones, I may have never had a spyderco with even angles on both sides... but I’ve also not had even angles on any of $400+ knives (think “big 3”) so there’s that. I get what you’re saying, but I haven’t experienced it and I can’t afford to pay more for a knife... I wonder at what price point you get that?

For the record this is really not a complaint thread. The angle thing is an honest question...at least on models sharpened by a robot, why is there a variance? Is it not capable of exact angles? I literally don't know so I'm curious.

The second part is more a suggestion. I started the thread because it seems like I've read about people having this problem a few times lately, and while it's less of a big deal with something like VG10 I can't imagine what a new user would do of they run into this with Maxamet.

I don't think dropping the goal angle from 30 to 25 inclusive is a big enough drop in edge thickness to spark a big edge damage ordeal but it may be enough to remedy the Sharpmaker angle woes.

[Evil D]

I never use the Sharpmaker base itself because I never hit the apex on either setting. I always thought they were supposedly ground to hit the apex at the 40 degree setting though?

I've had at least 120 Spydies (I've stopped counting) and every one of them has hit the apex on both sides on the 40°setting. They've all been somewhere between 20 dps and 15 dps. Most seem like they're right in the middle. I've never had one that I had to reprofile to touch up the apex on the 40° side. Maybe I've just been really lucky?

It's entirely possible yeah. 120 knives is a pretty small sample size. It's just like people who have issues with stripped screws when I've never had one. Vivi used to say all his SE knives would sharpen on the 30 slots while I've had to use 40 on mine.

An example...my Vallotton was ground at such a high angle that my Edge Pro wouldn't match up to the bevel with it adjusted all the way up to 30 degrees per side, so the bevel on that knife had to be in the neighborhood of 60 inclusive. It may be an obscure knife model and the tanto blade might be the entire cause, but can you imagine having to reprofile that on a Sharpmaker?

Anyway... lately I've been thinking a lot about how people's preferences are often based on negative first experiences. I consider myself a pretty average knife guy but I'm also pretty stuck in my ways, and yet I've come full circle from not liking serrations to preferring them and that was solely based on bad experiences, inexperience with sharpening and poor information. I was wondering tonight how often this sort of thing happens with different knife models and steels and the Sharpmaker.

[sok]

Yea I recently got my Para 3 and one was perfect 15 degrees on one side but the other was a little obtuse angle, I had to reprofile with diamond rods but it's fine at the end, I'm learning and honestly more aesthetic for me! At the moment I have successfully reprofiled that wonky side to 15 degrees so my back bevel is good but after coming off the diamond rods I can't cut paper, at best only one side kind of cuts paper but the other side feels dull. I want to make sure I can cut paper before moving off the diamonds. I ordered a loupe like Sal said but it'll come on Monday, in the meantime anyone have tips? Cause I am using light pressure to knock off the burr and I know I should be at the apex as I reprofiled the one side so their both 30 degrees inclusive

I think a loupe and a sharpie will answer a lot of your questions.

I did try sharpie when reprofiling a few times to make sure the edge bevel is 30, so when reprofiling the wonky edge at perfect 30 degrees strokes I eventually reprofiled where after a few strokes the sharpie comes off

I think the loupe might tell you otherwise. If you truly are apexed on both sides, it is time to move to the brown stones. It has been a long time since I have reprofiled anything with the Sharpmaker diamond rods but it seems like you should be able to cut paper and even do a little hair shaving.

I have three Para 3s. They all came sharp from the factory. I am sure I took a quick look at the bevels when I first got them, but I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. The only thing that matters to me is that I can keep a good sharp working edge on my knife using the brown stones at 40 degrees. I think you would be a happy camper right now if you would have just stuck with the 40 degree settings on your microbevel, unless your knife was just dull out of the box.

I break down the upkeep of a knife’s edge into two complete separate categories. One is maintaining the edge of a properly profiled knife by using a Sharpmaker, which is so easy that anyone can do it with limited practice. If you give me a knife with a hair popping sharp blade and the bevels are less than 20 degrees, I can keep that knife hair popping sharp for a long time with just the brown stones at 40 degrees. Basically, I look at it as, if I can’t easily get an edge super sharp by working it over on the brown stones at 40 degrees, it needs a reprofile.

For me, the whole point of the Sharpmaker is to be able to maintain a very sharp edge easily and fairly quickly(a couple of minutes a week). If it is a struggle to keep a blade sharp, while using the SM, then a lot of its value is waisted.

The second category is profiling. For me this is a completely different subject than maintaining a sharp edge with the Sharpmaker, and needs different tools. Talent and practice are also required. Unlike a lot of the members on this forum, I avoid reprofiling like the plague but when I do do it, I don’t use the Sharpmaker stones.

I haven’t needed to reprofile in a couple of years. All of the Spydies that I have purchased lately have had good profiles and I probably don’t carry a particular knife longer than a year. So they stay fresh and sharp on the 40 degree setting. If some of this super steel I have been using lately ever gets to the point that it needs a new profile, I may just send it into Spyderco and pay for it. I have never done this though. Either that or buy another knife. A sharp blade is addicting.

The Sharpmaker and the concept of the microbevel are amazing. If I were to be robbed of all my pocket knives and all of my sharpening equipment, and all I had left was the knife I was carrying, my first purchase would be the Sharpmaker.

[RustyIron]

I never use the Sharpmaker base itself because I never hit the apex on either setting. I always thought they were supposedly ground to hit the apex at the 40 degree setting though?

Tell us more, Rick.
I've been tossing around some ideas about using Sharpmaker stones on another guided system.