Tungsten Carbide

[alnico357]

I'm new here. Does Spyderco have any interest in tungsten carbide knives?

[sal]

Hi Alnico,

Welcome to our forum.

I saw a knife at the SHOT show that had a Tungsten Carbide blade. Very expensive. I didn't get to play with it though.

sal

[GarageBoy]

That's primarily a Warren Thomas thing, no? Sintered carbide on a G10/Titanium blade

[Pancake]

Sandrin makes knives from tungsten carbides too. They make pocket knives (slipjoints) and also kitchen knives. VERY expensive stuff.

[sal]

The knife I saw at SHOT was the Sandrin folder. I think the guy that had it said they were almost $300. I believe that was consumer direct. I think it would be diffiult to get them to the market through the distribution chain for a competitive price.

Also, I kinda have to admit that I'm really a steel guy and while I keep an open mind, I believe that steel is pretty hard to beat for a blade.

sal

[RustyIron]

I'm new here. Does Spyderco have any interest in tungsten carbide knives?

I'm no metallurgist, so this is a serious question. When looking at the recipes for the steel in some of my blades, many contain tungsten. That's fine. Are the blades you're talking about a solid chunk of tungsten carbide?

Aren't the carbide tools I use in my lathe and mill "tungsten carbide?" I ask because of the specific challenges involved. Most people use disposable carbide inserts. Some of my tools are this, but I also have a lifetime supply of silver soldered carbide tools. They're really easy to chip. I just touch them up on a green wheel. If the angle of the tool is too acute, it doesn't perform well at all. A blunter angle is great, as too sharp will end up in a broken tip.

Does an acute angle as found on a knife create any specific problems?

[JacksonKnives]

I'm new here. Does Spyderco have any interest in tungsten carbide knives?

I'm no metallurgist, so this is a serious question. When looking at the recipes for the steel in some of my blades, many contain tungsten. That's fine. Are the blades you're talking about a solid chunk of tungsten carbide?

Aren't the carbide tools I use in my lathe and mill "tungsten carbide?" I ask because of the specific challenges involved. Most people use disposable carbide inserts. Some of my tools are this, but I also have a lifetime supply of silver soldered carbide tools. They're really easy to chip. I just touch them up on a green wheel. If the angle of the tool is too acute, it doesn't perform well at all. A blunter angle is great, as too sharp will end up in a broken tip.

Does an acute angle as found on a knife create any specific problems?

Here's Larrin's analysis of the composition: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/11/18/ ... hat-is-it/
(Short answer: it's a lot like your lathe tooling, a sintered cobalt matrix with carbides.)

And here's Pete's review of the edge retention and sharpening characteristics: https://youtu.be/RbgdbpRAkSU
(Short answer: it's plenty acute enough for cutting rope for a very long time. It is very difficult to sharpen and not tough at all.)

Cool stuff, and if I had to choose between other ceramics and this stuff, I'd take the sintered carbide, but the range of steel alloys we've got is more than enough for me. Pete's tests with Rex 121 are in the same ballpark for edge retention.

[Pancake]

Yes, tungsten carbide is the same as it is used in mills, lathe tools or Sandrin knives. Difference are in size if carbides and matrix.
It is interesting material, but with Spyderco you have Maxamet, upcoming CPM-15V, maybe sometimes in the future T-15 and one day evev REX 121, and tungsten carbide is not 1000% better then Maxamet........so.....

[kennethsime]

Cool stuff, and if I had to choose between other ceramics and this stuff, I'd take the sintered carbide, but the range of steel alloys we've got is more than enough for me. Pete's tests with Rex 121 are in the same ballpark for edge retention.

What's the HRC on the Rex 121 used in those tests? Sandrin's test of 1600+ cuts seems to be about double anything I've seen before, but obviously not the most scientific test.

[JuPaul]

My husband wears a tungsten wedding band. He said a lot of construction guys wear them since they're incredibly hard, if your hand gets smashed under something, it won't bend and crush your finger. And it's not tough at all, so it'll shatter before it bends if it really gets compressed. I'm not sure I'd want that level of hardness (and minimal toughness) in a knife blade. Seems like it'd be awful to sharpen, even if you rarely have to do it.

[GarageBoy]

On the cheap end, there's RemGrit saw blades which I THINK are also sintered tungsten carbide

[Baron Mind]

If I can't sharpen it, I ain't interested.

[JacksonKnives]

Cool stuff, and if I had to choose between other ceramics and this stuff, I'd take the sintered carbide, but the range of steel alloys we've got is more than enough for me. Pete's tests with Rex 121 are in the same ballpark for edge retention.

What's the HRC on the Rex 121 used in those tests? Sandrin's test of 1600+ cuts seems to be about double anything I've seen before, but obviously not the most scientific test.

Pete doesn't do any hardness testing (can't remember if the maker gave him the spec in the review of that knife), but Larrin's analysis has some comparisons for toughness in high-carbide steels at production hardness near the end. It's a good read, and really showcases the compromise of a material like this.