Li'l Temperance 3: A (not so) li'l review

[zuludelta]

Thanks guys for all the responses to the review & sharing your experiences with the LT3. I especially found the discussion on using the divot for transitioning from forward to reverse grip very interesting. I've always used the depression in the Spyderco spoon clip as a tactile cue and pinch point for grip transitions and the addition of the handle scale divot in the LT3 greatly reinforces & complements that use. Additionally, the divot is very useful when doing expedient transitions with my non-dominant hand.

[FullScaler]

Great review, very well written.

I am Canadian as well and it can be frustrating trying to get premium knives up here for a decent price. The CBSA definitely makes it interesting trying to ship them up here and while I always try to support local, sometimes the margins they require for their businesses make certain knives cost-prohibitive.

I have not had the chance to handle a LT3 myself but it sure sounds like a very robust model.

[Wartstein]

I'd been interested in the Li'l Temperance 3 since it was revealed at Shot Show 2017, but one particular factor kept me from purchasing one once it became available at retail, and that was the price. It sold for around C$285 brand-new in-box at my local brick & mortar knife shop, far above what I was willing to pay for a production folding knife.....

Your review really made me look closer into this knife and I must say: It somehow really "connects" with me, despite not all of its features tick my "personal boxes"...

What do I like particularly?
- The handle seems to be very handfilling and comfortable, in fact its shape reminds me a lot of the Stretch handle (minus the forward finger choil of course)
- One would not guess that at first glance, but actually you get even a tiny bit more cutting edge than on a Manix with this knife
- This still comes with a rather compact size in pocket, which is not too important to me, but sometimes I do like to carry a compact knife that still offers a decent amount of edge
- I think I´d like the particularly sturdy looking and "chimped" comp. lock
- I am not a fan of thick blades (and this one is very thick with its 4mm stock), but in that case it really suits the knife and by being rather tall should still be a decent slicer
- By its looks it is a simple (in a positive way!) stripped down design, that makes me want to hold and use the knife instantly

Con:
- As you said: Price... while I am 100 % sure it is worth every cent, here in Europe you´d have to pay around 280 USD, and for that money I can get and try TWO other Spydies that interest me about the same...
- I am generally a backlock guy, but the comp. lock is a great one too in most scenarios

[zuludelta]

Review update: After an additional month of regular carry and use, the LT3 has broken in quite nicely. Being an older style of compression lock, the action will never be as snappy as that on a more recent one with the pivot bushing, but it's smoothed out over time and the most important thing is that it still reliably opens & locks in place, whether via Spydie-flick or more traditional thumb flick (and obviously, it works on the slow thumb roll).

As for the minor lock-stick I originally reported, I barely notice it now but whether this is due to me just getting used to it or if it's the result of the lock surfaces actually wearing in resulting in better fitment between the stop pin, leaf spring, and blade tang ramp, I'm not sure. I'll take it either way (and if it is the case of the latter, I hope the lock-stick will go away entirely with more time and use).

I did notice that it's a bit of a pocket shredder: The clip seems to have significantly more spring tension than a standard spoon clip (as noted by Bornin1500 in his comment earlier in the thread) and it very tightly holds the pants material against the handle scale divot. Great for retention in the pocket—this thing will not accidentally fall out of your pocket even if you're hanging upside-down for some reason—but not so great for the pocket hem. Easily remedied, though, by carefully bending the clip and taking some of the tension out.

It still cuts great, of course, it's as good an implementation of the Spyderco leaf-shaped blade as I've used, and the "extra-thicc" blade stock hasn't been an issue at all with the tasks I need a knife for at my job.

It took a while, but I like the LT3 much more now than I did when I first started using it as a work knife. I'd love to see a trainer version of this design someday, but that's probably never gonna happen (the ergos and dimensions are close enough to the Yojimbo 2 though, that I can settle for my Yojimbo 2 trainer as a "close enough" trainer for the LT3)

[V-1.5 aka V-1]

The Lil Temp is one of my favorite Spyderco designs. A purposeful design with top quality F&F and manufacturing. I have two original lil Temps which I love and have carried for many moons. One with a trailing point and one with a leaf point blade. I think the Lil Temp 3 is an improvement on them. I snagged the Lil Temp 3 right on release. It's pretty much my go to blade when I travel to jurisdictions with a 3" blade length limit.
IMHO it is a top three self defense folder along with the Yojimbo and Chinook. Like the Yojimbo and Chinook, it also excels at daily EDC uses.

[zuludelta]

I snagged the Lil Temp 3 right on release. It's pretty much my go to blade when I travel to jurisdictions with a 3" blade length limit.
IMHO it is a top three self defense folder along with the Yojimbo and Chinook. Like the Yojimbo and Chinook, it also excels at daily EDC uses.

I've yet to handle a Chinook, but I agree, I rate the LT3 up there with the Yojimbo 2 as among Spyderco's best SD-focused folder designs. My personal "SD top three" would be the Yojimbo 2, the Li'l Temperance 3, and the Introvert in no particular order of preference; with the Endura as a runner-up (depending on whether or not one considers it an SD-focused design).

That said (and to go on a slight digression here), I think the distinction between "knife great for SD" and "knife great for utility" creates something of a false dichotomy (i.e., the "knife as a weapon" vs. "knife as a tool"). What I've found with my admittedly limited knowledge & experience is that a lot of the things that make a knife design work well for SD also make it work well for utility (though not necessarily vice versa), particularly in terms of handling and ergonomics. I think knives like the Yo2, LT3, Introvert, and Endura are great designs, whether one views them through the SD lens or through the utility/EDC lens.

[ladybug93]

i think this knife would've sold so much better if it was made in golden at a lower price point. most people aren't going to pay over $200 for a sub 3" s30v knife. the design and execution look great, but the extra cost from shipping to japan makes it not worth the cost for many. personally, i never gave it a second look at it's original price, but i've been looking at it hard now as an alternative to the lil native. i'm still going with the lil native though because i want a comp lock knife for work, which has to be sub 2.5" and i want a coated blade.

if there is another iteration of this knife, i'd be happy with it exactly the way it is, but at a more competitive price. if you made it a salt, that would be amazing. i'd also like it if you added another half inch to the blade, but would be fine without it. i guess what i'm saying is i'd love a manix 2 salt without a choil and a comp lock.

[zuludelta]

In what steel would you like to see the next version?

I know I've replied to this query before but I'm wondering... would a Li'l Temperance 3 in SG2 be significantly more affordable to produce than one in CPM-S30V since SG2 can be sourced locally in Japan from Takefu? Given the similarities between SG2 & CPM-S35VN (at least based on what I've read from Larrin's research), it seems like SG2 would be a good candidate steel for the "ultimate" version of the Li'l Temperance 3 if using it can result in a more competitively-priced knife.

[Sumdumguy]

Unclad SG2 would be awesome.

Me? You know I'm going to say LC200N.

The world needs a Lil' Caribbean!

Edit: For the love of god, if you're going to make it FRN, PLEASE give it full liners! Otherwise it will be like the Para3 LW, which was nose heavy and not very good.

I know people are rubbing their knees together for LW models. They think they are the greatest... Unfortunately, they are wrong.
:D

Seriously though, after the P3LW, I won't be buying another unlined LW knife in that size range. They just aren't balanced and do not inspire confidence. Heft is necessary sometimes.

[zuludelta]

Edit: For the love of god, if you're going to make it FRN, PLEASE give it full liners!

I don't think you have to worry about any future version of the Li'l Temperance 3 not having any liners any time soon. The whole design conceit of the knife is "an MBC-rated folding knife that is legal to carry in jurisdictions with a 3-inch blade length restriction." So you know that it will always have a blade under 3 inches, and it will always have steel liners (until such time that stand-alone, non-metallic handle scale materials are developed that can meet the strength requirements for an MBC rating).

[Sumdumguy]

Edit: For the love of god, if you're going to make it FRN, PLEASE give it full liners!

I don't think you have to worry about any future version of the Li'l Temperance 3 not having any liners any time soon. The whole design conceit of the knife is "an MBC-rated folding knife that is legal to carry in jurisdictions with a 3-inch blade length restriction." So you know that it will always have a blade under 3 inches, and it will always have steel liners (until such time that stand-alone, non-metallic handle scale materials are developed that can meet the strength requirements for an MBC rating).

Let's hope you're right!

[zuludelta]

Seriously though, after the P3LW, I won't be buying another unlined LW knife in that size range. They just aren't balanced and do not inspire confidence. Heft is necessary sometimes.

Not to derail the thread, but if you're looking for a ~3 inch linerless lightweight FRN model with the weight more evenly distributed across the length of the knife, give the Native 5 Lightweight (2.5 oz.) a shot. The mid-backlock lockbar counterbalances the weight of the blade, making the knife extremely well-balanced.

[Sumdumguy]

Seriously though, after the P3LW, I won't be buying another unlined LW knife in that size range. They just aren't balanced and do not inspire confidence. Heft is necessary sometimes.

Not to derail the thread, but if you're looking for a ~3 inch linerless lightweight FRN model with the weight more evenly distributed across the length of the knife, give the Native 5 Lightweight (2.5 oz.) a shot. The mid-backlock lockbar counterbalances the weight of the blade, making the knife extremely well-balanced.

Yea, it is alright. Much better than the Para 3 LW.

I have the CS S90V version, from a couple years back. Prefer the old linered G10 versions, but I don't really use the N5 at all anymore.

[JohnAPA]

5. A note on indexing.
There is a step by step instruction with pictures for indexing the lil temp 3 from forward grip to reverse grip out there somewhere. By these instructions, after opening, the thumb is placed on the divot on the lockbar side (front side/show side) and another finger (for me middle finger gives most controll) is placed on the dip in the clip and the knife is rotated into the reverse grip. Given the size of the lil temp 3 I have noticed if I do this with less than optimal controll, (under stress for instance or doing it quickly and maybe not being focused on it), this causes the edge to hit the bottom of my palm. Consistently actually, so not good.

My solution for me has been to index the opposite way. I open the knife and go into the forward grip. From there I put my middle finger in the divot on the lockbar side, which is where it is resting in that grip anyway. And put my thumb in the dip of the clip. I then index into reverse grip and this causes the spine of the blade to make contact with the bottom of my palm and will not cut me. From there, depending on whether you want edge in or out, simply depends on how you roll the knife into your grip. Roll with the fingers into a fist for edge in, or roll the knife forward with the thumb, wrap the handle with the fingers, and then replace the thumb for edge out.

Yes. Perfect. That's exactly why the round indentation in the scales is there.

[defenestrate]

I don't have trouble with the blade hitting my palm or wrist, but as I looked at this post and tried it, it was clear that the angle of the knife in relation to my hand made a big difference. As one might expect, changing grip when the knife is roughly parallel to the forearm/wrist could lead to the blade striking it, but with a bit of a different angle, the handle would hit the side of my palm and the blade would not hit anything. I would think that practicing the "right" way would lead to doing it in such a way as not to hit one's arm with the blade. Then again, if you are comfortable working from the positions the knife takes where only the spine can contact your wrist, then whatever you practice is likely to take in general use. the palm of your hand or your fingers might be larger than mine as well. I think my hand is silghtlywide but my fingers are about average length, so your method might be more effective for larger hands. Anyway, thanks for bringing it up.

[weeping minora]

Due to my in-and-out nature in visiting with this forum, I do appreciate the re-awakening of this thread :cool:. Missed this discussion and am very interested in the development of this Lil Temp 3 LW or LT4 (?) spoken of by Sal in this thread. As others have stated, I too missed the opportunity to experience the LT3 due to price being a bit in discrepancy with my morale of value and funds, although this one really stood out to me in the line-up upon release and has continued to pique my interest. Updates please! :D

[Halfneck]

I really like the Lil'Temp design, but I'd love to see an FRN version at a lower price.

The Lil'Temp is already a wide design taking up pocket real estate. A FRN version would at least reduce the weight a bit. Though I think nested liners would be a good idea for weight balance - don't want it too blade heavy. Bi-directional FRN would also increase "grippiness". I'd also like to see it in VG10 steel, or CTS BD1N. This would hopefully lower the price some.

[Abyss_Fish]

just my two cents but...

I may be alone in this but I would absolutely love if the next model came in a trailing point like the original. I contemplate tracking down a trailing point 440v lil' temp almost daily :D

I'm all for lc200n of course, but I think xhp seems liken a very good fit as well. I'd also like to see it with green handles as a throwback to the original. And I'm into frn, especially if it's got the usual bi directional texturing / standard hourglass clip treatment.


also I'd like a g10 rhino with a 7 inch overall length pls

[sal]

The Lil' Temperance has been a 20 year personal project. We planned an FRN version 10 years ago, but because it is a smaller market to serve, and I wanted to epitomize the concept, the progress was slow. We changed the design, locks, clips, patterns, etc. Made many prototypes over the years.

The "Spirit" of the design has remained the same. Essentially, a tough, legal 3" blade MBC folder. Along with my own experience, I had input from James Keating (the Riddle of Steel), Bob Taylor (Warrior designer), Mike Janich (whom we all trust and revere), Bram Frank, Craig Douglas and Laci Szabo.

The first runs made for an interesting design, that was effective for two grips. Then I altered the design to also serve Pikal concepts (forward edge up and reverse edge in.), which was not incorporated in the original design.

I'm looking forward to the FRN version.

sal

[sal]

Hi Abyss_Fish,

Once the mold is finished, We can add blade shapes if the demand is there.

sal