I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

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Wartstein
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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Wartstein » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:27 pm

ManyReason wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:28 pm
Surfingringo wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:01 am
Hi, so are you recommending I use the knife out of the box lightly without any pre sharpening and then sharpen at 40 after a bit with light passes to make a microbevel? Does it make a difference if I make a microbevel out of the box right away at 40

I am really not a world class sharpener at all (especially compared to many others on this forum), but still really happy with my results on the Sharpmaker.

I would not overthink it! Just use your knife "out of the box", that does not have to be "lightly", and sharpen it when it starts to get a bit dull - but don´t let it get REALLY dull (!!). Maybe sharpen it for the first time when it just begins to not cut paper cleanly anymore or whatever.

I personally would sharpen it on the 30 degree setting for the first time, just to make sure that you really hit the edge and not rather the "shoulders" (so higher up on the blade). Maybe use a sharpie in order to be able to see that (but you´ĺl realize it anyway, should the blade just not get sharp on the 30 degree setting). Normally on a Spyderco 30 degree should hit the actual edge and properly sharpen the knife.

Then just try out what you like for yourself in subsequent sharpening processes! I sometimes sharpen my Spydies on 30, sometimes I apply a quick microbevel with the 40 setting, both works just fine
If you watch the instructional dvd, use light pressure (!!) and keep the angle more or less, you can´t really mess up a lot and just try both (microbevel or not) on the same knife!
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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Ric » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:47 am

Please watch this video

Spyderco Sharpmaker Tips and Tricks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DI8lTj-F8gA

I recommend use it also on kitchen knives to gain experience.
Especially for diamond rods: NO pressure.

I clean the standard stones in the dishwasher.

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Sharp Guy » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:04 am

Ric wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:47 am
Please watch this video

Spyderco Sharpmaker Tips and Tricks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DI8lTj-F8gA
Good video by Surfingringo (Lance). I sent that to my son a few weeks ago. It made it easier for me to explain the up and down technique I sometimes use

When I get a new knife I just use it with the factory edge for awhile until I feel it needs a touch up. Then I just touch up the apex with the stones in the 40° slots until it's shaving sharp again. After a doing this a few times I usually go ahead and reprofile the edge bevel to 30° inclusive and start over again.
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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:05 pm

Ah, I wish I saw your messages before I tried to reprofile my edge... I think it's fine though

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:29 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:35 pm
ManyReason wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:28 pm
Surfingringo wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:01 am
Hi manyreasons, congrats on your Sharpmaker, it is a great tool! The first thing you need to do is decide if you want to use a microbevel or not. Opinions vary but I almost always use a microbevel because it makes it ridiculously quick and easy to resharpen a knife...especially with the sharpmaker. Regarding the primary edge bevel, Golden tends to be very consistent with their sharpening so you are almost assuredly going to be close to 15 degrees per side. This means that you can start microbeveling at 40 degrees without having to do anything else to the knife.

If you choose to use a microbevel you want to be aware of how little it takes to affect the edge. If you use the knife lightly for a few days and want to bring it back to peak sharpness you can do that with just 8 or 10 passes on the medium stones, or maybe twice that many on the fines. Don’t think that you have to go through tons of passes and progress through various stones and corners and flats. That is not necessary on a fresh microbevel and you will only be needlessly removing metal and making your microbevel less “micro”. Once you see how quick and easy it is to add a microbevel it will change the way you look at sharpening. You can choose to strop at the end if you want but it is completely unnecessary. Light pressure on any of the SM stones can create EXTREMELY high levels of sharpness.
Hi, so are you recommending I use the knife out of the box lightly without any pre sharpening and then sharpen at 40 after a bit with light passes to make a microbevel? Does it make a difference if I make a microbevel out of the box right away at 40
Hi manyreasons, sorry, just saw this. I would recommend using the knife with the factory edge at first simply because Spyderco does a good job with sharpening and there’s no reason to remove metal if the knife is already sharp. Once it needs a touch up go straight to the 40 degree if you want to microbevel. If you want to sharpen before using that’s fine but it’s usually not necessary with the Golden knives. I will sometimes sharpen one right out of the box if it’s something that I’ll be using for fish cleaning but that’s mainly to put a coarser, more aggressive edge on it.

Hi Lance,
I decided to sharpen the knife at 30 degrees using the diamond rods because when I used sharpie to check bevel angle, one side was perfectly 15 degrees, but the other side was not (sharpie only removed on the shoulders). I tried reprofiling to 30 degrees inclusive for both using the pointy tip of the diamond rods. I took many passes using light pressure and I couldn't get that one side to 30 degrees... I checked again after a lot of passes (alternating on both sides) and I kept hitting the shoulders. If I want to reprofile at 30 for both, should I continue to use the diamonds and keep doing passes on both sides until I eventually reach it? On your video I see you do circular motions but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable enough to do that because I'm afraid it will yield an inconsistent bevel. Also, is sharpening only one side with diamond (the side that needs reprofiling) but not the other fine? When I look at my knife on the light, the side with perfect 15 degrees has a clean one angle bevel throughout. However, the side with the not 15 degree bevel, you can see from the shoulder to the center of the bevel is a different angle then from the center of bevel to the apex. It's hard to explain but I can clearly see almost two different/separate angles on the bevel of the side where it's not 15 degrees inclusive and I am planning on trying to keep reprofile with the diamonds until I get a clean bevel of 15 degrees per side, go down the stones to polish it, then go back and put a microbevel at 40. Also, when putting the microbevel, how do I know I actually formed one? I tried taking about 20 strokes on medium and 20 strokes on fine, then 20 more on ultra fine at 40 to see if I form a microbevel. Is this too many strokes to form a microbevel? Thanks for your help

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Hardbawl » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:59 am

sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:28 am
Hi ManyReason,

I would also suggest that you get a magnifier loupe, maybe 10X so you can study the edge as you learn.

sal
Please note: your iPhone has a 10X magnifier loupe built in. You can even snap a picture of your edge if you have a question or want to show your work.

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:10 pm

A caution.

Whether you microbevel or not, if you discover the hint of a notch forming on the edge at the width of your triangle from the ricasso, you are applying uneven (and probably too much) pressure. The abrasive will do the needed work with slightest and evenest pressure. What these pressures are in your hands must be discovered. Start with least aggression.

EDIT: Added a needed preposition and personal pronoun.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Hardbawl wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:59 am
sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:28 am
Hi ManyReason,

I would also suggest that you get a magnifier loupe, maybe 10X so you can study the edge as you learn.

sal
Please note: your iPhone has a 10X magnifier loupe built in. You can even snap a picture of your edge if you have a question or want to show your work.
Great news to me. Thanks.

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Marc <— a mere data-point, not an Influencer.

RECENT ARRIVAL: 52100 Military Model. ON RADAR: Siren; SwayBack; S90V Chief sprint-run. IN DREAMS: LC200N Military Model; Lil’ Native slipjoint; 52100 Shaman; Nitro-V Chief; LC200N Massad Ayoob (PE; G10); LC200N Breeden Captain (SE on recurve); Tusk (SE; G10).

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby sal » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:41 pm

They used to pull out finger nails to torture you. Now they take away your cellphone.

sal

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:00 pm

sal wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:41 pm
They used to pull out finger nails to torture you. Now they take away your cellphone.

sal
:p
Marc <— a mere data-point, not an Influencer.

RECENT ARRIVAL: 52100 Military Model. ON RADAR: Siren; SwayBack; S90V Chief sprint-run. IN DREAMS: LC200N Military Model; Lil’ Native slipjoint; 52100 Shaman; Nitro-V Chief; LC200N Massad Ayoob (PE; G10); LC200N Breeden Captain (SE on recurve); Tusk (SE; G10).

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:06 am

UPDATE: Good news (I think). After reprofiling my bevel to 30 (15 DPS), I found that my blade still wasn't sharp. I had the flexcut leather strop, applied some compound, and a few low angle and soft passes put my edge pretty sharp to both sides (however after some cutting on paper, one side wasn't sharp immediately... Burr?). I then polished my 30 degree bevel using about 30 strokes on flat gray stones, 30 on white stones, and finally finished off on ultra fine. I then stropped again and the edge was sharp (couldn't shave hair, but I could cut paper relatively easily. Honestly at this point I'm satisfied with that. Although I would like it to be shaving hair sharp one day). But again after a while of cutting paper I found one side (left side) to go dull on the paper. The other side (right side) was fine. I then stropped again and put a 40 degree microbevel on. All I did was take 5 light strokes (5 strokes per side) on the gray flat stones at 40 degrees. Stropped again, and it seems like my edge is holding up well (haven't used it in EDC yet, will probably update when I start using it more). I am satisfied with all the work I've done... Especially reprofiling that whole side. When I put my blade under light both bevels seem pretty clean and relatively shiny :) , once that loupe comes on Monday like Sal recommended, I'll examine my edge further and update again if needed. So far I'm impressed with the help and community friendliness on this forum, I'll continue to learn and hopefully be like you guys one day. I'll be back with more updates

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:18 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:28 am
Hi ManyReason,

I would also suggest that you get a magnifier loupe, maybe 10X so you can study the edge as you learn.

sal
Hey Sal,

The loupe actually came early and I got it now. It's a cheap loupe I got on Amazon that has 10x, 20x, and 30x, although the lens for the 20x and 30x are too small, I mostly am using the 10x. Is there anything specific I should be looking for when examining the edge? It seems apexed properly, but I see some light glinting off and very micro impurities through the edge. I'll try stropping and seeing what I can do. I put a 40 micro bevel on it last night

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Surfingringo » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:50 pm

Hi Many, if you have properly reprofiled and reached the apex on both sides then your edge should easily slice paper and shave arm hair (assuming you have made some lighter alternating passes to remove any burr. If you don’t have that level of sharpness then you are almost certainly not profiled all the way to the apex on one side or the other. When I reprofile, I will sharpen one side until I raise a burr on the opposite side and then repeat for the other side\. Follow with some light alternating passes and it’s good to go. From there you can either refine through higher grit progression or simply add a microbevel.

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:15 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:50 pm
Hi Many, if you have properly reprofiled and reached the apex on both sides then your edge should easily slice paper and shave arm hair (assuming you have made some lighter alternating passes to remove any burr. If you don’t have that level of sharpness then you are almost certainly not profiled all the way to the apex on one side or the other. When I reprofile, I will sharpen one side until I raise a burr on the opposite side and then repeat for the other side\. Follow with some light alternating passes and it’s good to go. From there you can either refine through higher grit progression or simply add a microbevel.
Thank you! I'll try this and update

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Surfingringo » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:46 pm

To be clear, I meant to say that if properly apexed it should be shaving sharp straight off the diamond/cbn rods. If it’s not then you likely aren’t quite there yet.

The sharpie can give you a false impression sometimes when you’re close. Meaning it can look like there’s no sharpie left when you really aren’t quite to the apex yet. You can also inadvertently remove all the sharpie with minor inconsistencies in your sharpening angle without actually reaching the apex with your 15 degree bevel. I would bet that you just aren’t quite there yet on the side that needed all the reprofiling. Once you raise a burr on both sides and remove it with alternating passes the difference in sharpness will be obvious. Your edge should be extremely sharp (with lots of “bite” when you test it in your thumb) even coming straight off the diamonds. And once you have that done right you can take it to hair popping sharp with literally 6 or 8 passes at 40 with the medium stones. It’s all about reaching the apex on both sides. Once you get there everything else is quick and painless.

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:02 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:46 pm
To be clear, I meant to say that if properly apexed it should be shaving sharp straight off the diamond/cbn rods. If it’s not then you likely aren’t quite there yet.

The sharpie can give you a false impression sometimes when you’re close. Meaning it can look like there’s no sharpie left when you really aren’t quite to the apex yet. You can also inadvertently remove all the sharpie with minor inconsistencies in your sharpening angle without actually reaching the apex with your 15 degree bevel. I would bet that you just aren’t quite there yet on the side that needed all the reprofiling. Once you raise a burr on both sides and remove it with alternating passes the difference in sharpness will be obvious. Your edge should be extremely sharp (with lots of “bite” when you test it in your thumb) even coming straight off the diamonds. And once you have that done right you can take it to hair popping sharp with literally 6 or 8 passes at 40 with the medium stones. It’s all about reaching the apex on both sides. Once you get there everything else is quick and painless.
Ok so after reprofiling the one side I try to get a noticeable burr (by feeling and by seeing with the loupe) and I can't seem to get one... However I then just took a few passes on the other side (already perfect edge bevel angle) and now all of a sudden the knife is sharper than before, it can't shave hair just yet but it can cut through magazine paper with relative ease... Does this mean something?

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Surfingringo » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:47 am

Hard to say without being there so I can only give you a “best guess” based on my own experiences. It probably means you are at the apex on one side but probably still not yet on the other. Remember that when you are reprofiling, the closer you get to reaching the apex, the slower the progress will get. This is because as you go you are having to remove metal from a larger and larger area, so progress will slow exponentially. That last little bit before actually reaching the apex and creating a burr can take quite a bit of work. Bottom line is, if you aren’t creating a burr on the opposite side then you likely aren’t there.

Again, take all of these suggestions with a grain of salt. I’m telling you about my past experiences and making an educated guess but ultimately you have to make the judgement on what you are seeing and feeling. But these two points will remain fairly constant in sharpening...

1. If you aren’t creating a burr then you haven’t reached the apex.
2. If you aren’t getting a shaving sharp edge (even off the diamond rods) then you probably haven’t reached the apex on both sides.

There are many other factors that COULD be affecting your results but statistically speaking, those are by far the most likely. Hope that helps. One other thing, don’t get frustrated. Once you get there you will have an “ah hah” moment and it will all seem much much easier next time.

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby sal » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:06 am

Hi Many,

As you do whatever you do, stop and take a few seconds to look at the edge to see and understand what you had just done.

"Persistence is king".

sal

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby ManyReason » Tue May 05, 2020 9:16 pm

Thanks for all the help, I forgot to update it's been a while but it's hair shaving sharp now. Bevels are uneven but only an aesthetic thing and I'm happy the knife is sharp :)

Quick question... The pivot has screws on both sides for the Para 3 LW. Is the proper way to tighten one side all the way and then the other side is the actual pivot screw where you adjust to your desired tension? Or how do you guys go about adjusting pivots with screws on both sides... And does it matter which side I choose to adjust?

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Re: I need some clarification before using the Sharpmaker for the first time...

Postby Wartstein » Fri May 08, 2020 5:36 pm

ManyReason wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:16 pm
Thanks for all the help, I forgot to update it's been a while but it's hair shaving sharp now. Bevels are uneven but only an aesthetic thing and I'm happy the knife is sharp :)

Quick question... The pivot has screws on both sides for the Para 3 LW. Is the proper way to tighten one side all the way and then the other side is the actual pivot screw where you adjust to your desired tension? Or how do you guys go about adjusting pivots with screws on both sides... And does it matter which side I choose to adjust?

Glad it worked out for you, the Sharpmaker really is a great tool after just a little practice! :)

/ As for the pivot question: I saw that you started a dedicated thread concerning that one anyway.
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